Shams: Jrue for Simons

[djFan71]

Next year he might be, but Simmons is an expiring and paid less, they weren't committed to him, they are committed to Jrue now.

Sure, but you are side-stepping my question.

You originally implied Jrue Holiday wasn't very good since he put up 11/4/4. If you think Simons is better because he put up 19/5/3, then you care about these numbers/stats.

If you don't think Simons is better even though his box-score was better than Jrue's, then what is the point of bringing up box-score to assess a player or make a factual point in a discussion?

If you are bringing up a stat-line only for it not to matter, then what was the point of bringing up the stat-line in the first place?

Maybe, but I wouldn't walk into a situation where for a trade to be successful, I need a 35 y/o to perform in a manner he hasn't done in 2 years.

Who is saying Jrue needs to be a 1st, 2nd or even 3rd option for Portland?

I expect Jrue to be 4th or 5th in FGA/G for Portland. You made a statement about how Jrue will be the 2nd option in Portland.

I disagree Jrue will be the 2nd option.

I brought the stat line to demonstrate his impact, not to compare him with Simons.
Jrue will be 2nd option based in quality as offensive player and decision maker.
I see no reason for a team to trade for a 35 y/o on 110/3 contract when he's not productive enough and I don't have the system to hide his limitations, unlike the Celtics.

The goal should be for that not to be the case for POR. Give Scoot the reins. Let Deni, Sharpe and Clingan have the ball more to create. You gotta grow those guys. Jrue is there to help that, and take over some when needed, but not be the full time 2nd option. That's just not the right plan.

[pipfan]

Great for my Bulls, who have the Port pick (lotto protected through 2028)
Henderson/Holiday
Sharpe/Holiday/Thybulle
Camara/Grant
Deni/Grant
Ayton/Clingan/RWill
plus #11
That's a good team

[Mavrelous]

Sure, but you are side-stepping my question.

You originally implied Jrue Holiday wasn't very good since he put up 11/4/4. If you think Simons is better because he put up 19/5/3, then you care about these numbers/stats.

If you don't think Simons is better even though his box-score was better than Jrue's, then what is the point of bringing up box-score to assess a player or make a factual point in a discussion?

If you are bringing up a stat-line only for it not to matter, then what was the point of bringing up the stat-line in the first place?



Who is saying Jrue needs to be a 1st, 2nd or even 3rd option for Portland?

I expect Jrue to be 4th or 5th in FGA/G for Portland. You made a statement about how Jrue will be the 2nd option in Portland.

I disagree Jrue will be the 2nd option.

I brought the stat line to demonstrate his impact, not to compare him with Simons.
Jrue will be 2nd option based in quality as offensive player and decision maker.
I see no reason for a team to trade for a 35 y/o on 110/3 contract when he's not productive enough and I don't have the system to hide his limitations, unlike the Celtics.

The goal should be for that not to be the case for POR. Give Scoot the reins. Let Deni, Sharpe and Clingan have the ball more to create. You gotta grow those guys. Jrue is there to help that, and take over some when needed, but not be the full time 2nd option. That's just not the right plan.

He is paid 110/3, he will put real limitations on their cap, add to that his age and risk of implosion, makes this gamble extremely risky and unnecessary.
If they become PO team because of Jrue I'll eat crow, I expected them to be the same as last year.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Next year he might be, but Simmons is an expiring and paid less, they weren't committed to him, they are committed to Jrue now.

Sure, but you are side-stepping my question.

You originally implied Jrue Holiday wasn't very good since he put up 11/4/4. If you think Simons is better because he put up 19/5/3, then you care about these numbers/stats.

If you don't think Simons is better even though his box-score was better than Jrue's, then what is the point of bringing up box-score to assess a player or make a factual point in a discussion?

If you are bringing up a stat-line only for it not to matter, then what was the point of bringing up the stat-line in the first place?

Maybe, but I wouldn't walk into a situation where for a trade to be successful, I need a 35 y/o to perform in a manner he hasn't done in 2 years.

Who is saying Jrue needs to be a 1st, 2nd or even 3rd option for Portland?

I expect Jrue to be 4th or 5th in FGA/G for Portland. You made a statement about how Jrue will be the 2nd option in Portland.

I disagree Jrue will be the 2nd option.

I brought the stat line to demonstrate his impact, not to compare him with Simons.

Thanks for clarifying. There are many better indicators of impact than Points/Rebounds/Assists and they are readily available online for free

Jrue will be 2nd option based in quality as offensive player and decision maker.

Maybe. I'd have Deni and Sharpe approaching or surpassing Jrue next year. Scoot is a bit of a wildcard as well. Ayton much more lethal off-ball as a P&R big.

I see no reason for a team to trade for a 35 y/o on 110/3 contract when he's not productive enough and I don't have the system to hide his limitations, unlike the Celtics.

Portland has a system where most players average between 8-12 FGA. Jrue should fit right in, no?

[Dr Positivity]

Portland seems hell bent on making a mediocre team here.

[djFan71]

I brought the stat line to demonstrate his impact, not to compare him with Simons.
Jrue will be 2nd option based in quality as offensive player and decision maker.
I see no reason for a team to trade for a 35 y/o on 110/3 contract when he's not productive enough and I don't have the system to hide his limitations, unlike the Celtics.

The goal should be for that not to be the case for POR. Give Scoot the reins. Let Deni, Sharpe and Clingan have the ball more to create. You gotta grow those guys. Jrue is there to help that, and take over some when needed, but not be the full time 2nd option. That's just not the right plan.

He is paid 110/3, he will put real limitations on their cap, add to that his age and risk of implosion, makes this gamble extremely risky and unnecessary.
If they become PO team because of Jrue I'll eat crow, I expected them to be the same as last year.

Sure, there's risk. But, there is upside. Jrue is just a really good player. And a lot of it isn't necessarily relying on athleticism. I don't know who else you get that can better help that team learn how to win for Simons and a couple seconds. The money is what it is. He'll start, set a tone every day and just make things so much easier on the other guys.

If he declines and becomes overpaid, so be it, you probably have good picks at that point and an expiring (or expiring and a half at the 27 deadline) for a trade.

[Mavrelous]

The goal should be for that not to be the case for POR. Give Scoot the reins. Let Deni, Sharpe and Clingan have the ball more to create. You gotta grow those guys. Jrue is there to help that, and take over some when needed, but not be the full time 2nd option. That's just not the right plan.

He is paid 110/3, he will put real limitations on their cap, add to that his age and risk of implosion, makes this gamble extremely risky and unnecessary.
If they become PO team because of Jrue I'll eat crow, I expected them to be the same as last year.

Sure, there's risk. But, there is upside. Jrue is just a really good player. And a lot of it isn't necessarily relying on athleticism. I don't know who else you get that can better help that team learn how to win for Simons and a couple seconds. The money is what it is. He'll start, set a tone every day and just make things so much easier on the other guys.

If he declines and becomes overpaid, so be it, you probably have good picks at that point and an expiring (or expiring and a half at the 27 deadline) for a trade.

I think his decline should be the likely outcome, it has already started, he'll be good next year, but after that, betting on ages 37 and 38 is not good business.
They'll be paying ~40% of the cap on 2 players that will likely be non-contributors in a year, they had no reason to do this IMO.

[djFan71]

He is paid 110/3, he will put real limitations on their cap, add to that his age and risk of implosion, makes this gamble extremely risky and unnecessary.
If they become PO team because of Jrue I'll eat crow, I expected them to be the same as last year.

Sure, there's risk. But, there is upside. Jrue is just a really good player. And a lot of it isn't necessarily relying on athleticism. I don't know who else you get that can better help that team learn how to win for Simons and a couple seconds. The money is what it is. He'll start, set a tone every day and just make things so much easier on the other guys.

If he declines and becomes overpaid, so be it, you probably have good picks at that point and an expiring (or expiring and a half at the 27 deadline) for a trade.

I think his decline should be the likely outcome, it has already started, he'll be good next year, but after that, betting on ages 37 and 38 is not good business.
They'll be paying ~40% of the cap on 2 players that will likely be non-contributors in a year, they had no reason to do this IMO.

yeah, if you're as down on Jrue as you are, it doesn't make sense. But, I don't think he's nearly as dead as people make him out to be.

[TheNetsFan]

It would be hysterical if they trade Jrue for Dame and picks. I could see a mini bidding war between Sacramento, Dallas and Milwaukee. First to offer a late 1st or 4+ 2nds wins.

[The Golden Fang]

Anyone calling this a 'fleece' is seriously overrating Simons.

[Devilanche]

I can see the actual motivation for both.

Boston - cut salary
Portland - get some on court vet help so they can play better.

Did Portland slightly overpay ? Probably , but this next 2 season should have minimal impact of them.

I think possibly win win trade , no big loss for either.

[Walton1one]

I will be surprised if Jrue plays in POR next year, IMO, POR GM Cronin thinks he can extract more value for Jrue to a contending team than he was being offered for Simons currently on the market

The timing before the draft is worth noting as is the deal not finalized until apparently 7/6

There is no other sensible alternative, acquiring him to try and make a play in is laughably short sighted, as is mentoring for Scoot b/c POR fans all know Billups would be playing Jrue 30+/night if he is here with Scoot coming off the bench again in his 3rd year….madness

I would think a lot of playoff teams would have interest in Jrue, while none of them likely had interest in Simons

As for BOS, I would guess this is a salary savings & 1 year rental and Simons can help cover the scoring load while Tatum is out?

[Michaellam1987]

Good luck to POR GM, if he thinks he can get more assets from trading Jrue again.

[VaDe255]

is he getting paid to help the Celtics? incredible

[OxAndFox]

I just really have no idea where people are getting that Jrue looked washed last year. I feel like I must have been watching different games. I was totally on board with the negative valuations of him because of the high potential for it, but I didn’t see it at all last year far least not the insane levels people on this board say.

Its just people seeing a person say it once as a hot take during the POs and then parrots, um I mean posters, join in thinking they're some great analyst.

[Walton1one]

Good luck to POR GM, if he thinks he can get more assets from trading Jrue again.

Likely BOS prioritized an expiring back for Jrue instead of taking salary back and they get the benefit of Simons scoring to help while Tatum is out

Other teams might have been willing to pay more but BOS would have to take more/equal salary back or contracts that were not expiring

[cgf]

I love this for POR on the court. The talking Jrue being in decline is so grossly overstated. He’s still awesome.

That being said, they still suck as a team in the ultra competitive west and now have both Jrue and Grant on the books long term. Just feels like a terrible direction for them.

On the Boston end, seems like a great first step. Simons is a decent expiring player and they got some 2nds. Celtics now need to clear about $19.3M to duck the 2nd apron, but the deals of Simons/Porzingis both look very movable to shed incremental salary and Hauser seems very “dumpable”. They seem well on their way to resolving their financial issues without giving up any future 1sts unless maybe if they want to go ultra aggressive and duck the tax altogether.

Disagree with this completely lol. Jrue looked really old this postseason and the west is wide open behind OKC.

[zimpy27]

Jrue declined both years on the Celtics.

It might have been role, worth a shot to see if he can still contribute

[cgf]

I just really have no idea where people are getting that Jrue looked washed last year. I feel like I must have been watching different games. I was totally on board with the negative valuations of him because of the high potential for it, but I didn’t see it at all last year far least not the insane levels people on this board say.

Its just people seeing a person say it once as a hot take during the POs and then parrots, um I mean posters, join in thinking they're some great analyst.

Or we just watched the Knicks series and came away from it with a different opinion from you

Calling anyone who thinks differently than you a sheep is the most boring thing you could possibly post…but what should I expect from someone who just wants to keep parroting that Mazulla did nothing wrong

[BK_2020]

Looks like step one of the reset plan, exchanging long term salary for expirings while getting under the 2nd apron. This move brings them closer to dipping under the tax next offseason. Brown should be next.