Stein/Fischer: Toronto willing to deal RJ Barrett, IQ, Poeltl for Significant Upgrades // #9 Available

[CazOnReal]

Broke: RJ + 9 for Cam + 19

Woke: RJ + 9 + Lakers 2nd/#39 for Cam + 19 + 26

Bespoke: RJ + 9 + Lakers 2nd/#39 for Cam, reroute 19 + 26 for the 12th pick

[Duffman100]

I should have DDosed the site when people claimed tanking makes sense after the last lottery happened.

[ConSarnit]

I doubt RJ 9 and Cam 19 is the deal.

My guess is RJ goes elsewhere and Brooklyn’s multiple picks end up dispersed while Raptors trade down a couple of spots to 11/12/13. Basically Brooklyn uses extra picks and cap space to move up.

All kinds of scenarios in play here with Portland, Chicago, and Atlanta.

I sure hope we don’t trade down in an RJ/Cam swap. I mean Cam is a better fit but he’s not a good defender. How many more wins is he worth? 2-3, maybe? The level of talent usually available at 9 far exceeds that of 19. We shouldn’t be compromising the upside of 9 just to squeeze out a couple more wins next year. We aren’t a Cam Johnson away from title contention. We still need a real #1. That guy is far more likely to be available at 9 or at least the guy picked at 9 will have higher value in a trade for a #1 (if that ever comes available.

I’ll take the upside of 9 and 44 wins next season over 19 and 46 wins next season every day of the week.

[Raps in 4]

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If we trade RJ + 9 For Cam + 19 i will be pretty disappointed...While Cam the better player hes not like a ceiling raising player.....He would not make us drastically better to give up 9th for....

Dumbest trade ever if true.

Cam is a much better player than RJ. And if Masai doesn't like anyone at #9 and thinks his preferred target would be available at #19, I can see him pulling the trigger.

Cam is old, but we appear to be "going for it" ("it" being a first or second round exit), so he fits what we're trying to do.

[ArthurVandelay]

Who says no?

Blazers: RJ, #26
Boston: Williams III
Nets: Thybulle, #9
Raptors: Porzingis, #11

[Raps in 4]

I doubt RJ 9 and Cam 19 is the deal.

My guess is RJ goes elsewhere and Brooklyn’s multiple picks end up dispersed while Raptors trade down a couple of spots to 11/12/13. Basically Brooklyn uses extra picks and cap space to move up.

All kinds of scenarios in play here with Portland, Chicago, and Atlanta.

I sure hope we don’t trade down in an RJ/Cam swap. I mean Cam is a better fit but he’s not a good defender. How many more wins is he worth? 2-3, maybe? The level of talent usually available at 9 far exceeds that of 19. We shouldn’t be compromising the upside of 9 just to squeeze out a couple more wins next year. We aren’t a Cam Johnson away from title contention. We still need a real #1. That guy is far more likely to be available at 9 or at least the guy picked at 9 will have higher value in a trade for a #1 (if that ever comes available.

I’ll take the upside of 9 and 44 wins next season over 19 and 46 wins next season every day of the week.

It depends on who Masai plans to draft. He could be going completely off the board and thinks his target will still be available at 19.

[Godaddycurse]

Who says no?

Blazers: RJ, #26
Boston: Williams III
Nets: Thybulle, #9
Raptors: Porzingis, #11

why is Nets getting 9?

[Raptors Realtor]

Having both Ingram and Cam Johnson on the same team is asking for trouble... Cam hasn't sniffed 60 games in the past 3 seasons, and Ingram has only once in the past 4.

[tsherkin]

Which stats are you referring to? Maybe I missed something but everything I saw showed him as a negative player on both ends. He doesn’t particularly do anything well on either end of the floor and is redundant out there with Ingram and Scottie.

OBPM: +1.2
DBPM: -0.7

Net BPM: +0.6
VORP: +1.2

Raw On/Off: +1.8

Team ORTG w RJ on: +3.1

O-EPM: +0.8
D-EPM: -0.5
EPM: +0.2

And that's all with his career-low FT%, and ignores utility of rim and foul pressure, etc.

He isn't an All-Star type of player, for sure, but he's not a net-negative player, either.

[ArthurVandelay]

Who says no?

Blazers: RJ, #26
Boston: Williams III
Nets: Thybulle, #9
Raptors: Porzingis, #11

why is Nets getting 9?

Taking on salary and giving up a first.

[douggood]

Who says no?

Blazers: RJ, #26
Boston: Williams III
Nets: Thybulle, #9
Raptors: Porzingis, #11

raptors and blazers

[Godaddycurse]

Who says no?

Blazers: RJ, #26
Boston: Williams III
Nets: Thybulle, #9
Raptors: Porzingis, #11

why is Nets getting 9?

Taking on salary and giving up a first.

taking on 11M dont move you from 26 to 9. thats crazy.

[Jerry Lucas]

Who says no?

Blazers: RJ, #26
Boston: Williams III
Nets: Thybulle, #9
Raptors: Porzingis, #11

why is Nets getting 9?

Taking on salary and giving up a first.

If that's your reasoning shouldn't they just get Portland's #11, since it's Thybulle's salary they're taking?

[earthtone]

RJs a negative impact player out there.

That isn't statistically true, nor qualitatively...

Which stats are you referring to? Maybe I missed something but everything I saw showed him as a negative player on both ends. He doesn’t particularly do anything well on either end of the floor and is redundant out there with Ingram and Scottie.

He was positive in EPM (78th percentile in the league), and positive in BPM & VORP as well. In the 94th percentile of both AST% and FT% as well, so those are two very clear skills.

I personally don’t get the idea that he’s a bad fit/redundant with Ingram & Scottie. Having multiple guys on the floor with plus positional size & dribble/pass/shoot ability is the new meta for the NBA, and RJ fits that mould.

[Godaddycurse]

That isn't statistically true, nor qualitatively...

Which stats are you referring to? Maybe I missed something but everything I saw showed him as a negative player on both ends. He doesn’t particularly do anything well on either end of the floor and is redundant out there with Ingram and Scottie.

He was positive in EPM (78th percentile in the league), and positive in BPM & VORP as well. In the 94th percentile of both AST% and FT% as well, so those are two very clear skills.

I personally don’t get the idea that he’s a bad fit/redundant with Ingram & Scottie. Having multiple guys on the floor with plus positional size & dribble/pass/shoot ability is the new meta for the NBA, and RJ fits that mould.

he's a bad fit defensively, but on offense hes okay albeit a better 3 pt shooter would be preferred

[ArthurVandelay]

why is Nets getting 9?

Taking on salary and giving up a first.

taking on 11M dont move you from 26 to 9. thats crazy.

Good point.

Blazers: RJ, #19
Celtics: Williams III, #26
Nets: Thybulle, #11
Raptors: Porzingis

[ConSarnit]

He may not be, but he is decent off the ball. He is not a black hole & typically doesn't over-dribble the ball. A lot of his touches in a half court setting are on the move, many times going downhill coming off screen. Also, C&S 3's. Other than that, it's transition.

This is when RJ is at his best. He's not an on-ball iso guy. I think that's the point really. RJ was #1 on the team in miles travelled per game on offense. He's not standing around waiting for an iso touch.

I think he’s ok off-ball. I wouldn’t exactly consider him an ideal off ball player. He’s not running around through screens nor is he cutting much in the traditional sense. 36% on C&S 3’s is ok. His catch and drive game is good. Don’t know if that counts as off-ball play. His off-screen frequency is incredibly low (3.3%) but I’m not sure how they track it (c&s vs drives off screens). Miles per game on offense isn’t exactly the best measurement considering he played the 2nd most minutes on the team so you’d expect it to be higher. He’s not necessarily gumming things up off-ball. It would interesting to see what his splits are like concerning drives and how much is self created vs opportunistic.

Personally, I see catch and shoot or catch and drive to be off the ball plays. I mean.......if you are finishing within a few seconds of catching the ball what's the difference (cut or drive).

I see on the ball plays more as self creation. Derozan is definitely more of an on the ball scorer. He needs the ball in his hands & usually 3+ dribbles to be effective.

To me, on ball basically = iso.

One is causing the defense to scramble or create confusion.

The other is just standing there waiting to take advantage of the confusion someone else created.

The second one is what RJ is doing. It’s not off-ball play if you need to catch the ball and take multiple dribbles to score. He’s not cutting into open space. He’s not setting screens to take a defender out of the play. He’s not making defenders choose to stay with a shooter or help. No one considers driving from ATB off-ball play.

[Tha Cynic]

I think RJ Barrett is the player we need to replace, but I would not use the 9th and move down for 29 year old Cam Johnson

[Clutch0z24]

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Seems like Nets or Blazers where Barrett ends up....If we can keep 9th pick thats where i wanna send him....Not giving up our pick just to trade Barrett...

[tsherkin]

I personally don’t get the idea that he’s a bad fit/redundant with Ingram & Scottie. Having multiple guys on the floor with plus positional size & dribble/pass/shoot ability is the new meta for the NBA, and RJ fits that mould.

I think it's about the plethora of potentially mediocre scoring, depending on availability and how Ingram performs.

he's a bad fit defensively, but on offense hes okay albeit a better 3 pt shooter would be preferred

Also the first part of this. RJ has improved to being a mediocre defender. Ingram is a mediocre defender. Of the three, only Scottie's good at it.

That said, RJ can shoot from the corner well enough to add value that way, so his 3pt shooting is less of an issue.