Stein/Fischer: Toronto willing to deal RJ Barrett, IQ, Poeltl for Significant Upgrades // #9 Available

[ForeverTFC]

If we trade RJ+9 for Claxton+19 straight up, and I hear anyone defending Masai, I'm paying for a botnet to ddos realgm servers until the heat death of the universe

Trade Claxton to the Lakers for Rui, Vincent, and 2 1sts

[Landomar]

I saw the Barrett + 9 for Cam Johnson + 19 trade idea awhile ago, and I do still like the idea in theory. It all depends on who's still available at 9, who's still available at 19, and what the Raptors big board looks like.

I do think that a forward rotation of Barnes, Ingram, and Cam Johnson would be very good. You could have Cam Johnson come off the bench, and stagger minutes so that 2 of those guys are almost always in the game.

[Scase]

If we trade RJ+9 for Claxton+19 straight up, and I hear anyone defending Masai, I'm paying for a botnet to ddos realgm servers until the heat death of the universe

Trade Claxton to the Lakers for Rui, Vincent, and 2 1sts

I was saying straight up as in that is the trade, no follow ups. If he starts with this trade and does the paperclip thing to get SGA, then yeah it's a good trade lol.

Also that still isn't a very good return. We turn RJ and the 9th into expirings and 2 worse 1sts?

[PushDaRock]

I think he’s ok off-ball. I wouldn’t exactly consider him an ideal off ball player. He’s not running around through screens nor is he cutting much in the traditional sense. 36% on C&S 3’s is ok. His catch and drive game is good. Don’t know if that counts as off-ball play. His off-screen frequency is incredibly low (3.3%) but I’m not sure how they track it (c&s vs drives off screens). Miles per game on offense isn’t exactly the best measurement considering he played the 2nd most minutes on the team so you’d expect it to be higher. He’s not necessarily gumming things up off-ball. It would interesting to see what his splits are like concerning drives and how much is self created vs opportunistic.

Personally, I see catch and shoot or catch and drive to be off the ball plays. I mean.......if you are finishing within a few seconds of catching the ball what's the difference (cut or drive).

I see on the ball plays more as self creation. Derozan is definitely more of an on the ball scorer. He needs the ball in his hands & usually 3+ dribbles to be effective.

To me, on ball basically = iso.

One is causing the defense to scramble or create confusion.

The other is just standing there waiting to take advantage of the confusion someone else created.

The second one is what RJ is doing. It’s not off-ball play if you need to catch the ball and take multiple dribbles to score. He’s not cutting into open space. He’s not setting screens to take a defender out of the play. He’s not making defenders choose to stay with a shooter or help. No one considers driving from ATB off-ball play.

Is there not confusion caused by a Jak down screen that frees up RJ to catch the ball on the move and head towards the basket?

[PushDaRock]

Which stats are you referring to? Maybe I missed something but everything I saw showed him as a negative player on both ends. He doesn’t particularly do anything well on either end of the floor and is redundant out there with Ingram and Scottie.

He was positive in EPM (78th percentile in the league), and positive in BPM & VORP as well. In the 94th percentile of both AST% and FT% as well, so those are two very clear skills.

I personally don’t get the idea that he’s a bad fit/redundant with Ingram & Scottie. Having multiple guys on the floor with plus positional size & dribble/pass/shoot ability is the new meta for the NBA, and RJ fits that mould.

he's a bad fit defensively, but on offense hes okay albeit a better 3 pt shooter would be preferred

I think he's about an average defender now after some improvement last season. One thing he also brings that the other guys on the roster don't is positional size and strength at the wing. He's physically strong and it allows him to body up bigger wings.

[Godaddycurse]

He was positive in EPM (78th percentile in the league), and positive in BPM & VORP as well. In the 94th percentile of both AST% and FT% as well, so those are two very clear skills.

I personally don’t get the idea that he’s a bad fit/redundant with Ingram & Scottie. Having multiple guys on the floor with plus positional size & dribble/pass/shoot ability is the new meta for the NBA, and RJ fits that mould.

he's a bad fit defensively, but on offense hes okay albeit a better 3 pt shooter would be preferred

I think he's about an average defender now after some improvement last season. One thing he also brings that the other guys on the roster don't is positional size and strength at the wing. He's physically strong and it allows him to body up bigger wings.

bad fit with our starting lineup because we need a PoA defender at SG

[PushDaRock]

he's a bad fit defensively, but on offense hes okay albeit a better 3 pt shooter would be preferred

I think he's about an average defender now after some improvement last season. One thing he also brings that the other guys on the roster don't is positional size and strength at the wing. He's physically strong and it allows him to body up bigger wings.

bad fit with our starting lineup because we need a PoA defender at SG

Let's say you replace him with Ochai, now your starting lineup is lacking rim pressure. Only guy that can get there is Ingram but not sure you want to count on him doing it after all his injuries and his FTR dropped drastically last season in the limited sample size as well.

[Tha Cynic]

Portland makes the most sense as they need scoring and they may be tricked by RJ's numbers, thinking he's a primary scorer.

But the options coming back are a very good defensive player who can barely play half a season and Ayton. If we can get their pick and we have a clear target in the draft i would do it and replace RJ with either Ochai or Walter in the starting lineup.

At his best RJ is a neutral player and at his worst he is a negative

[ForeverTFC]

If we trade RJ+9 for Claxton+19 straight up, and I hear anyone defending Masai, I'm paying for a botnet to ddos realgm servers until the heat death of the universe

Trade Claxton to the Lakers for Rui, Vincent, and 2 1sts

I was saying straight up as in that is the trade, no follow ups. If he starts with this trade and does the paperclip thing to get SGA, then yeah it's a good trade lol.

Also that still isn't a very good return. We turn RJ and the 9th into expirings and 2 worse 1sts?

3 to 4. You also get the Nets first this year and I would push for one of their firsts next year too. If we can then drop Vincent into someone's MLE for like a 2nd, we also get rid our cap/salary headache. Of course, they only do this if they're not in love with what they can get at 9, and I'm going to have to trust them on that decision.

It's essentially our version of that Knicks trade a few years ago which gave them most of the ammo they needed to get Bridges.

[tdotrep2]

RJ's in a weird underrated/overrated spot

[Scase]

Trade Claxton to the Lakers for Rui, Vincent, and 2 1sts

I was saying straight up as in that is the trade, no follow ups. If he starts with this trade and does the paperclip thing to get SGA, then yeah it's a good trade lol.

Also that still isn't a very good return. We turn RJ and the 9th into expirings and 2 worse 1sts?

3 to 4. You also get the Nets first this year and I would push for one of their firsts next year too. If we can then drop Vincent into someone's MLE for like a 2nd, we also get rid our cap/salary headache. Of course, they only do this if they're not in love with what they can get at 9, and I'm going to have to trust them on that decision.

It's essentially our version of that Knicks trade a few years ago which gave them most of the ammo they needed to get Bridges.

Ah fair, I forgot about the 19th. Still not sure I'd do it, if for no other reason, I don't see Masai doing a bridges type deal.

[YogurtProducer]

People acting like they know what the exact deal is. Raptors arent stupid to just do RJ + 9 for Cam + 19.

There would obviously be more Future 1sts involved in the deal too. Which wouldnt be terrible to acquire more assets for a big fish down the line (Giannis for example)

Yeah if there are future picks involved it gets more interesting

[PushDaRock]

RJ's in a weird underrated/overrated spot

Which is why I still think it's more likely he sticks around and we evaluate the fit first before making a decision. I don't think we are getting an upgrade for him and I don't think a downgrade makes much sense for a team that is trying to win and needs as much talent out there as possible.

[earthtone]

RJ's in a weird underrated/overrated spot

Just purely underrated at this point

[ATLTimekeeper]

I was saying straight up as in that is the trade, no follow ups. If he starts with this trade and does the paperclip thing to get SGA, then yeah it's a good trade lol.

Also that still isn't a very good return. We turn RJ and the 9th into expirings and 2 worse 1sts?

3 to 4. You also get the Nets first this year and I would push for one of their firsts next year too. If we can then drop Vincent into someone's MLE for like a 2nd, we also get rid our cap/salary headache. Of course, they only do this if they're not in love with what they can get at 9, and I'm going to have to trust them on that decision.

It's essentially our version of that Knicks trade a few years ago which gave them most of the ammo they needed to get Bridges.

Ah fair, I forgot about the 19th. Still not sure I'd do it, if for no other reason, I don't see Masai doing a bridges type deal.

Don't worry, that deal is horrendous. LAL isn't paying 2 firsts to acquire Claxton, who the Nets sorely want to get rid of. But guess what? Now it's our problem and we have no leverage because we also have Poeltl and an immediate compulsion to trade Claxton.

[navyblue]

Majority of trades happen in a vacuum, see all trades outside of KD. Amazing how we spend so many clicks making, justifying, critiquing stuff that will never happen.

[ForeverTFC]

3 to 4. You also get the Nets first this year and I would push for one of their firsts next year too. If we can then drop Vincent into someone's MLE for like a 2nd, we also get rid our cap/salary headache. Of course, they only do this if they're not in love with what they can get at 9, and I'm going to have to trust them on that decision.

It's essentially our version of that Knicks trade a few years ago which gave them most of the ammo they needed to get Bridges.

Ah fair, I forgot about the 19th. Still not sure I'd do it, if for no other reason, I don't see Masai doing a bridges type deal.

Don't worry, that deal is horrendous. LAL isn't paying 2 firsts to acquire Claxton, who the Nets sorely want to get rid of. But guess what? Now it's our problem and we have no leverage because we also have Poeltl and an immediate compulsion to trade Claxton.

Did I miss a trade that already happened?

[tdotrep2]

RJ's in a weird underrated/overrated spot

Just purely underrated at this point

I wouldn't say this. There are a lot of posts that do some serious overrating

[Tha Cynic]

Why do people get mad over random rumours and then use that to trash our front office who haven't actually committed to any trade

And this is coming from tenured posters who like to act like they're smarter than everyone else

Let me get mad at Poetl for Ayton, just because...

[CazOnReal]

What do we think about Kispert + 18 for RJ and 39 or something similar to that?