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Josh Giddey Thread 2.0

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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#201 » by Jcool0 » Wed Jun 18, 2025 6:49 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
:dontknow:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/giddejo01/splits/2025

If you don't think he was playing awful, be my guest. I wouldn't even give him the MLE if his pre-all-star game performance was his norm.


He was contributing just not scoring:

Nov. - Jan: 7.2 rebounds, 6.8 assists, 1.2 steals

Feb. - April: 9.5 rebounds, 8.1 assists, 1.4 steals

PPG Nov - Jan: 11

PPG Feb - April: 20.2


Also:
Defending at a near bottom of league level
Well below average offensive efficiency
Low volume for a primary ball handler
Poor shooter
Poor at drawing fouls
Worse A/TO ratio

Yeah, he wasn't scoring, but things like his foul draw rate and three point percentage were much worse, so even in lower volume he was also much worse at everything he was trying to do. He was also defending much worse. If we get that version of Giddey after his new contract, it will be an albatross.

I'm not suggesting that Giddey is necessarily going to go back in time to the pre-Zach trade version of himself, but if he did it would be a disaster. It's certainly not a zero risk given the good version of Giddey was a remarkably short period of time against largely teams that were tanking.


I said scoring. Everything you said relates to that. Its hard to draw fouls if you aren't taking shots. His defense was fine all year.
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#202 » by dougthonus » Wed Jun 18, 2025 7:07 pm

Jcool0 wrote:I said scoring. Everything you said relates to that. Its hard to draw fouls if you aren't taking shots. His defense was fine all year.


If Giddey did this:
Same defense as end of year
Same A/TO ratio as end of year
Same efficiency on offense as end of year
Scoring volume of beginning of the year

That would describe "the only difference is scoring" to me, and I would have not said that player was awful at the beginning of the year.

The differences were defense, passing efficiency, scoring efficiency, and scoring volume. Of those, scoring volume is the least meaningful to me.
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#203 » by MGB8 » Wed Jun 18, 2025 7:45 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:I said scoring. Everything you said relates to that. Its hard to draw fouls if you aren't taking shots. His defense was fine all year.


If Giddey did this:
Same defense as end of year
Same A/TO ratio as end of year
Same efficiency on offense as end of year
Scoring volume of beginning of the year

That would describe "the only difference is scoring" to me, and I would have not said that player was awful at the beginning of the year.

The differences were defense, passing efficiency, scoring efficiency, and scoring volume. Of those, scoring volume is the least meaningful to me.


Fair. But watching him at the end of the year, nothing looked unsustainable - in particular on the defensive end but also on offense.
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#204 » by dougthonus » Wed Jun 18, 2025 9:01 pm

MGB8 wrote:Fair. But watching him at the end of the year, nothing looked unsustainable - in particular on the defensive end but also on offense.


Surely you'd think his 46% from three is unsustainable I would imagine.

That aside, I wasn't really commenting about the sustainability or non-sustainability. I made a comment that he wasn't very good for the first 50 games of the season because I don't think he was. There are reasons to both be optimistic or pessimistic about the final 19 games being sustainable.
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#205 » by Chi town » Tue Jun 24, 2025 5:21 pm

That shot looks like it’s still improving…

Read on Twitter
?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1937107113341583658%7Ctwgr%5E5f44d9ba4a1bf03767a667355871d7015dd4aa60%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bleachernation.com%2Fbulls%2F2025%2F06%2F24%2Fbulls-league-laughing%2F
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#206 » by sco » Tue Jun 24, 2025 6:22 pm

Chi town wrote:That shot looks like it’s still improving…

Read on Twitter
?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1937107113341583658%7Ctwgr%5E5f44d9ba4a1bf03767a667355871d7015dd4aa60%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bleachernation.com%2Fbulls%2F2025%2F06%2F24%2Fbulls-league-laughing%2F

Man I love him training with Daniels.
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#207 » by MissileMike » Tue Jun 24, 2025 8:26 pm

sco wrote:
Chi town wrote:That shot looks like it’s still improving…

Read on Twitter
?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1937107113341583658%7Ctwgr%5E5f44d9ba4a1bf03767a667355871d7015dd4aa60%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bleachernation.com%2Fbulls%2F2025%2F06%2F24%2Fbulls-league-laughing%2F

Man I love him training with Daniels.


Wish he was on the bulls.
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#208 » by VolumePoster » Wed Jun 25, 2025 1:38 am

MissileMike wrote:
sco wrote:
Chi town wrote:That shot looks like it’s still improving…

Read on Twitter
?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1937107113341583658%7Ctwgr%5E5f44d9ba4a1bf03767a667355871d7015dd4aa60%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bleachernation.com%2Fbulls%2F2025%2F06%2F24%2Fbulls-league-laughing%2F

Man I love him training with Daniels.


Wish he was on the bulls.


Daniels on the Bulls would be fantastic.
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#209 » by MissileMike » Wed Jun 25, 2025 1:11 pm

So now, if what I am reading is right, the Nets are down to 37.5m cap space after absorbing Mann's contract yesterday. If they make one more deal, the only serious threat to sign Giddey will be gone. If that happens, what do we expect the Giddey number to be?
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#210 » by DuckIII » Wed Jun 25, 2025 1:27 pm

Chi town wrote:That shot looks like it’s still improving…

Read on Twitter
?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1937107113341583658%7Ctwgr%5E5f44d9ba4a1bf03767a667355871d7015dd4aa60%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bleachernation.com%2Fbulls%2F2025%2F06%2F24%2Fbulls-league-laughing%2F


He's never going to get rid of that weird little hand-twist hitch he has as he transitions into his release. Just a matter of learning to develop a shot with that in place, I guess. Worked out last year.

Sidenote, its amazing how many guys make it all the way to the NBA with messed up shot mechanics. All three of my sons were/are nice solid HS basketball players, but my youngest is the only one who had interest in AAU play and consistent, dedicated off-season training. So I've seen a very small scale, watered down version of what "serious" youth basketball training looks like. I flat don't understand how, for example, a guy like CMB goes through all those levels of basketball, is on the eve of possibly being a lottery pick, and has terrible shot mechanics (and I love CMB).

You can kinda see how it happens with guys like Joakim Noah, getting by on fire and athleticism as a big. But guards and wings? It just surprises me. How do you go through all those levels of elite basketball your whole life without a coach or trainer absolutely smothering you with shot mechanic training and massive reps? Giddey is a minor example of that.
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#211 » by jnrjr79 » Wed Jun 25, 2025 2:38 pm

MissileMike wrote:So now, if what I am reading is right, the Nets are down to 37.5m cap space after absorbing Mann's contract yesterday. If they make one more deal, the only serious threat to sign Giddey will be gone. If that happens, what do we expect the Giddey number to be?


All the reports I read yesterday that the Mann deal alone got them out of more-than-MLE cap space land. Not sure where you're getting this $37.5M number.
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#212 » by MissileMike » Wed Jun 25, 2025 2:46 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:
MissileMike wrote:So now, if what I am reading is right, the Nets are down to 37.5m cap space after absorbing Mann's contract yesterday. If they make one more deal, the only serious threat to sign Giddey will be gone. If that happens, what do we expect the Giddey number to be?


All the reports I read yesterday that the Mann deal alone got them out of more-than-MLE cap space land. Not sure where you're getting this $37.5M number.


Looks to be above 40m still.
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#213 » by nomorezorro » Wed Jun 25, 2025 2:47 pm

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


they can still open up a lot of space
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#214 » by dawhizz » Wed Jun 25, 2025 4:22 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=cLrE-3h2uw3rACxhQZYEvg

Seems like a reasonable market comp for Giddey, no? Vanvleet more proven, Giddey younger?
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#215 » by nomorezorro » Wed Jun 25, 2025 4:26 pm

vanvleet had a kind of bad year last year and is on the wrong side of 30, but yeah that's a good value for houston and hopefully indicative of the cap environment pushing guys to take friendlier deals
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#216 » by WindyCityBorn » Wed Jun 25, 2025 7:19 pm

MissileMike wrote:So now, if what I am reading is right, the Nets are down to 37.5m cap space after absorbing Mann's contract yesterday. If they make one more deal, the only serious threat to sign Giddey will be gone. If that happens, what do we expect the Giddey number to be?


Minimum of $25 million for Giddey no matter what.
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#217 » by kodo » Wed Jun 25, 2025 7:55 pm

dawhizz wrote:Seems like a reasonable market comp for Giddey, no? Vanvleet more proven, Giddey younger?

Everything depends on if one thinks the post trade Giddey is an indicator of his future production.

Post Trade Giddey: 21 ppg 11 rpg 9 apg
Fred: 14 ppg 4 rpg 5 apg

Even if someone doesn't buy the post trade Giddey, his full season average was 15 ppg 8 apg 7 apg and he was a better 3P shooter than Fred (37% vs 34%)

Basically I don't think they're remotely comparable. But Fred brings intangibles/experience Giddey doesn't have and has been a tough defender. Also not sure why we're comping his age 30+ contract, in his prime Fred signed for $42M AAV.
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#218 » by NecessaryEvil » Thu Jun 26, 2025 6:38 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=46
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#219 » by sco » Thu Jun 26, 2025 11:22 pm

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Chicago-Bulls/4/Transaction-History/2025

Looks like we tendered his QO to keep his rights. Not much news there.
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Re: Josh Giddey Thread 2.0 

Post#220 » by kodo » Thu Jun 26, 2025 11:30 pm

Austin Reaves (20 ppg / 4 rpg / 5 apg) rejected $89M / 4 year extension from LA to explore Free Agency next season.

Reports say he's seeking $30M+.

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