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Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die

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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2041 » by vvoland » Tue Jun 24, 2025 8:51 pm

whatisacenter wrote:
vvoland wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:
Hate on Jordan Poole all you want but I would take him over Draymond seven days a week.

He had a pretty decent bounce back season last year on a team that had no interest in winning. He’s already proven that he can work here on a championship team.


One leads a championship level defense and has 4 rings. The other is an inefficient scorer that tanked our title defense in '23.

7 days a week, you say?


Yep, seven days a week.

Draymonds days of leading a championship level defense are in the past. Everything he gives you on defense at this point in his career, he gives back with his turnovers and lack of offense.



If the past is the season that just ended, I agree. He was 3rd in DPOY (I think he was better than both players that finished above him), 1st team all-defense, and had the dubs as a top 2 defense post butler trade. He was even better on that end in the Hou series.

I understand not wanting to watch him, hating his personality, and wanting to turn the page. Those all make sense. The revisionist history and downplaying his impact does not.
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2042 » by AirP. » Tue Jun 24, 2025 8:52 pm

whatisacenter wrote:
vvoland wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:
Hate on Jordan Poole all you want but I would take him over Draymond seven days a week.

He had a pretty decent bounce back season last year on a team that had no interest in winning. He’s already proven that he can work here on a championship team.


One leads a championship level defense and has 4 rings. The other is an inefficient scorer that tanked our title defense in '23.

7 days a week, you say?


Yep, seven days a week.

Draymonds days of leading a championship level defense are in the past. Everything he gives you on defense at this point in his career, he gives back with his turnovers and lack of offense.


Jordan Poole has had 1 season where his calculated ORTG was higher than his calculated DRTG, that was in 22, every other season it's not been positive. Draymond use to be great in Calculated ortg-drtg but last year he was negative, his offensive contributions have been dropping a ton and he needs to be the last option on the court.
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2043 » by Jester_ » Tue Jun 24, 2025 10:12 pm

vvoland wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:
vvoland wrote:
One leads a championship level defense and has 4 rings. The other is an inefficient scorer that tanked our title defense in '23.

7 days a week, you say?


Yep, seven days a week.

Draymonds days of leading a championship level defense are in the past. Everything he gives you on defense at this point in his career, he gives back with his turnovers and lack of offense.



If the past is the season that just ended, I agree. He was 3rd in DPOY (I think he was better than both players that finished above him), 1st team all-defense, and had the dubs as a top 2 defense post butler trade. He was even better on that end in the Hou series.

I understand not wanting to watch him, hating his personality, and wanting to turn the page. Those all make sense. The revisionist history and downplaying his impact does not.


Yeah I think Dray isn't good enough to outplay his personality anymore. But taking Poole over him is **** bananas.
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2044 » by whatisacenter » Tue Jun 24, 2025 10:28 pm

vvoland wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:
vvoland wrote:
One leads a championship level defense and has 4 rings. The other is an inefficient scorer that tanked our title defense in '23.

7 days a week, you say?


Yep, seven days a week.

Draymonds days of leading a championship level defense are in the past. Everything he gives you on defense at this point in his career, he gives back with his turnovers and lack of offense.



If the past is the season that just ended, I agree. He was 3rd in DPOY (I think he was better than both players that finished above him), 1st team all-defense, and had the dubs as a top 2 defense post butler trade. He was even better on that end in the Hou series.

I understand not wanting to watch him, hating his personality, and wanting to turn the page. Those all make sense. The revisionist history and downplaying his impact does not.


He wasn't even in the running for DPOY until he started promoting himself for the award.

He was not DPOY material against the Wolves.

Dray was amazing years ago but that ship has sailed...next season he will be a year older and a year worse.
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2045 » by whatisacenter » Tue Jun 24, 2025 11:03 pm

Looks like Zinger was available for a bag of beans...

Read on Twitter
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2046 » by Onus » Tue Jun 24, 2025 11:13 pm

whatisacenter wrote:Looks like Zinger was available for a bag of beans...

Read on Twitter

Can't believe the celtics were able to get under the 2nd apron without giving up anything of consequence.
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2047 » by vvoland » Tue Jun 24, 2025 11:15 pm

whatisacenter wrote:
vvoland wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:
Yep, seven days a week.

Draymonds days of leading a championship level defense are in the past. Everything he gives you on defense at this point in his career, he gives back with his turnovers and lack of offense.



If the past is the season that just ended, I agree. He was 3rd in DPOY (I think he was better than both players that finished above him), 1st team all-defense, and had the dubs as a top 2 defense post butler trade. He was even better on that end in the Hou series.

I understand not wanting to watch him, hating his personality, and wanting to turn the page. Those all make sense. The revisionist history and downplaying his impact does not.


He wasn't even in the running for DPOY until he started promoting himself for the award.

He was not DPOY material against the Wolves.

Dray was amazing years ago but that ship has sailed...next season he will be a year older and a year worse.



I disagree. He was off to a great start on that end but faded mid season, much like most of the team. Immediately after the Jimmy trade, he was the best defender in the league (not just my words) but it's a full season award. That's the phrase I heard from most voters that had podcasts (windhorts & co., lowe, simmons, russilo, athletic, etc.). He won't be as good as prime draymond but that's mostly in transition and on offense. His defense is still good enough to anchor a top unit.

I agree he did not look great against the wolves. If it wasn't a 40 game sprint to finish the season I think he would have looked better. I'm not his therapist but I would also guess he kind of gave up once the injuries piled up and it looked like we had no chance. Also, a lot easier to play offense when you're randle and can not only rest on defense, but also have no pressure on your offensive game since you know your opponent can't score.

I'm carrying a lot of water for dray, I'll admit that. His shot leaves him for long stretches, he makes insane decisions with the ball, and he just can't finish near the rim anymore. I don't expect that to change. He is still a hell of a passer, his synergy with Steph is obvious, and there isn't a single player I would pick to build a defense around over the next two years (probably wemby, tbh). Even at Dray's advanced age.
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2048 » by superunknown » Wed Jun 25, 2025 2:30 am

Onus wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:Looks like Zinger was available for a bag of beans...

Read on Twitter

Can't believe the celtics were able to get under the 2nd apron without giving up anything of consequence.


that what usually happens when you have good FO.
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2049 » by Onus » Wed Jun 25, 2025 2:36 am

superunknown wrote:
Onus wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:Looks like Zinger was available for a bag of beans...

Read on Twitter

Can't believe the celtics were able to get under the 2nd apron without giving up anything of consequence.


that what usually happens when you have good FO.

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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2050 » by vvoland » Wed Jun 25, 2025 3:31 am

Onus wrote:
superunknown wrote:
Onus wrote:Can't believe the celtics were able to get under the 2nd apron without giving up anything of consequence.


that what usually happens when you have good FO.

Bob always sent out a 1st to dump salary …


I think he had to with jp with the way that season went and the contract that kicked in after the trade. It's about as bad a first as we could have traded and, I believe, we can still trade picks 1-20, reverse protection, in that draft

The Iggy one was probably too much but didn't we have to do that for the s&t? I forget but there may have been a very small window when Iggy had to get moved. Still an overpay, I think, but it def helped bring the '22 title so, all in all, not so bad.

Now the draft history, that's another story
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2051 » by Jester_ » Wed Jun 25, 2025 11:27 am

whatisacenter wrote:Looks like Zinger was available for a bag of beans...

Read on Twitter


This is baffling. Imagine if we were starting Steph-Moody-Jimmy-Dray-Kristaps in the playoffs.....

Could we have made the salary work? We couldn't beat Georges Niang and a second? :banghead:
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2052 » by BayAreaDub » Wed Jun 25, 2025 6:26 pm

Except Zinger is unreliable so likely wouldn’t even make it to PO
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2053 » by cpower » Wed Jun 25, 2025 6:36 pm

Jester_ wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:Looks like Zinger was available for a bag of beans...

Read on Twitter


This is baffling. Imagine if we were starting Steph-Moody-Jimmy-Dray-Kristaps in the playoffs.....

Could we have made the salary work? We couldn't beat Georges Niang and a second? :banghead:

he was never ready. he will miss the playoffs
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2054 » by vvoland » Wed Jun 25, 2025 7:22 pm

cpower wrote:
Jester_ wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:Looks like Zinger was available for a bag of beans...

Read on Twitter


This is baffling. Imagine if we were starting Steph-Moody-Jimmy-Dray-Kristaps in the playoffs.....

Could we have made the salary work? We couldn't beat Georges Niang and a second? :banghead:

he was never ready. he will miss the playoffs


If we packaged everyone not named Steph/Jimmy/Dray, we could have gotten him. I don't think he and Dray would mesh in the locker room and there's no chance he'll be healthy for the playoffs. Just my 2 cents.

In other news, Van Vleet just took a 2/50 when his team option for next season was $45M. Rockets set up well to get another star after moving Brooks and dropping FVV's cap hit next year by 20M.
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2055 » by wco81 » Wed Jun 25, 2025 7:36 pm

That's unusual. Good starter level players don't usually take lower salaries.

He had a good playoffs series and when he was injured, the Rockets went on a stretch of bad games.
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2056 » by Jester_ » Wed Jun 25, 2025 7:48 pm

vvoland wrote:
cpower wrote:
Jester_ wrote:
This is baffling. Imagine if we were starting Steph-Moody-Jimmy-Dray-Kristaps in the playoffs.....

Could we have made the salary work? We couldn't beat Georges Niang and a second? :banghead:

he was never ready. he will miss the playoffs


If we packaged everyone not named Steph/Jimmy/Dray, we could have gotten him. I don't think he and Dray would mesh in the locker room and there's no chance he'll be healthy for the playoffs. Just my 2 cents.

In other news, Van Vleet just took a 2/50 when his team option for next season was $45M. Rockets set up well to get another star after moving Brooks and dropping FVV's cap hit next year by 20M.


They're looking really nice for next year
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2057 » by EvanZ » Wed Jun 25, 2025 7:49 pm

Brad Stevens is tankign the gap year and going to end up with a top 3 pick. It's brilliant.
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2058 » by GS Warriors 1 » Wed Jun 25, 2025 8:05 pm

whatisacenter wrote:
GS Warriors 1 wrote:A Poole dump done by a 2nd team.


Hate on Jordan Poole all you want but I would take him over Draymond seven days a week.

He had a pretty decent bounce back season last year on a team that had no interest in winning. He’s already proven that he can work here on a championship team.


No hate, really. Just a fact of what the 2 trades involving Poole have been. This was a salary dump for Washington for next offseason.
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2059 » by vvoland » Wed Jun 25, 2025 8:19 pm

EvanZ wrote:Brad Stevens is tankign the gap year and going to end up with a top 3 pick. It's brilliant.


Not in the East. Unless they trade brown or white.
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Re: Around the NBA V: Live and Let Die 

Post#2060 » by EvanZ » Wed Jun 25, 2025 8:23 pm

vvoland wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Brad Stevens is tankign the gap year and going to end up with a top 3 pick. It's brilliant.


Not in the East. Unless they trade brown or white.


They are trading both :lol: :lol: :lol:

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