11 days out from the 2025 NBA draft...Who is your guy?

[Red Larrivee]

A hyper athletic 3D big with wingspan is way more intriguing to me than a 3D wing. I guess the question would be what’s Fleming’s BB IQ?

To piggyback Duck, I don't think Fleming is a player that's thrives because he has a standout feel for the game, processing, reaction speed or great BBIQ. He's not that type of player.

The sell on him is that he's 6'9 with a 7'5 wingspan, athletic, strong, an improved shooter and he can defend anywhere from 3-4 positions. I think he's one of the better fits for this team stylistically in the draft. I like him for those reasons.

But, for a player like him who basically offers no type of self creation, ball handling, foul drawing or playmaking offensively, it's a hard sell in the lottery, especially for a team like this. There are players who are low volume in those things and perhaps show signs they can do more going forward, but Fleming is not that type of player.

I agree with Duck that he's a player that if you can get an extra pick for, then do it. Or, if you're already a really good team and you just need solid complimentary pieces, he's a strong target in the middle of the first.

[MissileMike]

My strategy would be to draft which ever player has "fallen" the farthest to 12 ie haliburton, myles turner, or matas. Someone's going to drop.

[kodo]

This was an interesting game as the Bulls are looking at both Asa Newell vs CMB, and they defended each other most of this game.

Watch on YouTube

CMB: 18/5/5, 2 steals 2 blocks
Asa: 17/10/2, 1 steal 3 blocks

Kinda interesting in that both are defensive prospects and both guys scored very effectively.

[Almost Retired]

Dalen Terry would be a solid rotation player IF he could develop a jump shot. So far not so much. Give me a guy like Fleming who hits 3s at 39%, has a 7'5" wingspan and can defend 1-4 and some small ball 5. I like CMB too. But I can see a Fleming-Matas front court causing all kinds of defensive trouble for opposing teams. They can both switch. Both are long. Both can protect the rim. Matas at the "3" could cause a lot of mismatches. And he
is only going to get better defensively with experience and adding functional strength, which he's doing by the looks of him.

Can someone explain to me why Fleming isn’t projected 10-15? He seems much more interesting than CMB and Sorber.

Upper classman. Automatically knocks you down a ton.
The first upper classmen taken is usually a solid pick and sometimes fantastic value. Jalen Williams, Mikal Bridges, Jaime Jaquez, Patyon Pritchard, etc..
Although I think the first upper classman for this draft is going to be Coward not Fleming.

I like Coward too. But I like the way Fleming fits on our roster. We need a defensive presence with length that can rebound AND shoot well enough from outside to be someone the defense has to guard. Fleming is just a physical anomaly with a freakish wingspan that's longer than most centers.

[ChiTownHero1992]

My comparisons of guys we could be looking at at 12 and some modern comparisons for them and my order for how I'd pick them for the Bulls board:

Maluach - Huge, Rim Runner, Defensive Anchor, Lob Threat - The best of Javale McGee (no shaqtin appearances just the highlights) or Mitch Robinson
KJ - BIg PG, Floor General, Playmaker and Scorer, TO's and fouls post-injury/being out of shape from it - Spencer Dinwiddie is similar in a sense
Sorber - Anchor, Post Presence - Kevon Looney but could be better
CMB - smooth, defensive anchor - Draymond light and less attitude or a 6'6" Joakim Noah
Beringer - raw athlete, possible defensive anchor, boom or bust type - anywhere between Jonathan Isaacs and Daniel Gafford
Bryant - 3-D, defensive anchor - Tayshaun Prince <--- not my guy but firmly think this could be AKME's archtype!
Newell - athletic post pressence - could be Tyrus Thomas but could be Nic Claxton
McNeely - 3 point specialist - Corey Kispert or JJ Reddick-lite
Coward - 3-D shooter, floor spacer - Josh Richardson type but with more scoring potential
Essengue - huge, athletic, raw talent - could be Isaacs or could be Austin Daye
Queen - Scorer, Finisher, but headcase - dont want him - Thad Young with Draymond's attitude
Demin - defense/play making, slow footed, seems uninterest half the time - late career Shaun Livingston

[Almost Retired]

Dalen Terry would be a solid rotation player IF he could develop a jump shot. So far not so much. Give me a guy like Fleming who hits 3s at 39%, has a 7'5" wingspan and can defend 1-4 and some small ball 5. I like CMB too. But I can see a Fleming-Matas front court causing all kinds of defensive trouble for opposing teams. They can both switch. Both are long. Both can protect the rim. Matas at the "3" could cause a lot of mismatches. And he
is only going to get better defensively with experience and adding functional strength, which he's doing by the looks of him.

Can someone explain to me why Fleming isn’t projected 10-15? He seems much more interesting than CMB and Sorber.

Because Fleming is exclusively a play finisher. He's a really good one, but that's the entirety of his game. He has virtually no reps or results as a ball handler in any scenario, whether it be pick and roll, isolation, or any sort of self creation. He also has three years of disappointing results as a passer.

That said, I like him. I think there's definite two-way ability there. I think him and Buzelis fit well together and there's some really appealing use they have athletically and as help defenders. But, if you're taking Fleming you have to accept that he's a player who you need to feed looks all the time. I think he fits well on a team with an established core of playmakers.

We've got Giddey and maybe Ball for that. Fleming gives you defense with switch ability. He can rebound. He can defend the rim. He isn't perfect as a prospect. Not many of the players after Flagg and Harper are sure bets. But I prefer drafting a guy that has shown some shooting ability instead of a prospect that we hope can develop a jump shot. That hasn't worked out that well for us in recent years.

[Red Larrivee]

We've got Giddey and maybe Ball for that. Fleming gives you defense with switch ability. He can rebound. He can defend the rim. He isn't perfect as a prospect. Not many of the players after Flagg and Harper are sure bets. But I prefer drafting a guy that has shown some shooting ability instead of a prospect that we hope can develop a jump shot. That hasn't worked out that well for us in recent years.

I like Fleming for this team. I just think that if you take him, you're quickly going to realize that three point shooting, while important, is not everything. Especially when you can't create advantages anywhere else on offense.

There are a number of poor shooters I'd take over him at 12.

[KevinPandawong]

I voted CMB but KJ is definitely my #1 just doubting he actually falls.

I'm fairly ambivalent with all of the late lotto prospects. I just know Jase Richardson is going to be the steal of the draft. I'd trade Coby easily, but if all it cost was taking on a bad contract or Lonzo that would be my dream draft night.

[wolffy]

CMB is going to completely flop. I'm going into the draft hoping they do almost anything other than him. Banking on him to overcome his size and terrible shooting by being a generational defender is a bad bet. Not impossible but not good.

Noa, Newell. Beringer, Coward. Fleming. Id rather any of these over him.

[Jello Biafra]

I'm not a scout, but I stay at a Holiday Inn Select last night (and listened to draft focused podcasts).

Do not want Queen. Undersized, unathletic, no D, can't shoot threes. Regardless of work ethic and motivation concerns, he's not a good fit for a team that wants to play fast and shoot a lot of 3's like what the Bulls professes they want to do. Vuc without the three or the professionalism. Give me Adama Sanogo on a 10 day.

Do not want Collin Murray Boyles. There's 5 Javonte Green's out there for the veteran minimum.

Do want Essengue. Seems to be the most athletic "big" (a face the basket guy) with the most upside. Probably won't be available. Never seen him play so that's probably why I like him.

I get it why the more scouts see a player (like Ayo or Brunson), the less they like them. They are looking for traits. Hide Pat on the bench as a freshman and all you got are traits that look enticing. They also look for "an NBA skill", which tends to pigeon hole guys before they get into the league. He's a shooter. He's a rim runner. He's a three and D guy etc. Guys who are good at basketball but don't necessarily fill a defined role get overlooked. It's why Mirotic left the NBA. The league wanted him but wanted him to be a spot up shooter only. He wanted to play basketball, not stand in a corner all game and wait for the ball to come to him.

It seems like the Bulls whiff a lot when they are drafting around this area (other than maybe Buzelis we'll see). James Johnson, McBuckets, Snell, Valentine, Terry. At least McBuckets and Johnson had careers.

[ghostinthepost1]

I am 100% on the CMB bandwagon.

I think people underestimate how much a single good defensive player can transform a teams defense. It's not to the same degree a great offensive player effects offense but it's not that far off and I think CMB could be a Draymond-esq transformative defensive player. One offense he can do pretty much everything well except shoot which will come with reps and time.

Everything I've read also said he's a great kid who works hard and has a good head on his shoulders.

If you've got a spare 25 minutes today...

Watch on YouTube

[League Circles]

Can't believe today is the day that will define the rest of our lives

[sco]

I am 100% on the CMB bandwagon.

I think people underestimate how much a single good defensive player can transform a teams defense. It's not to the same degree a great offensive player effects offense but it's not that far off and I think CMB could be a Draymond-esq transformative defensive player. One offense he can do pretty much everything well except shoot which will come with reps and time.

Everything I've read also said he's a great kid who works hard and has a good head on his shoulders.

If you've got a spare 25 minutes today...

Watch on YouTube

Actually the video articulated the point that concerns me about CMB. His defensive strength is against wings/bigs in the paint, but he's too slow to guard POA and his lack of height limit his rim protection.

I'll add that his offensive game reminds me of Queen's (good and bad), but the reason I'd much rather have him than Queen.

[ChiTownHero1992]

I'm not a scout, but I stay at a Holiday Inn Select last night (and listened to draft focused podcasts).

Do not want Queen. Undersized, unathletic, no D, can't shoot threes. Regardless of work ethic and motivation concerns, he's not a good fit for a team that wants to play fast and shoot a lot of 3's like what the Bulls professes they want to do. Vuc without the three or the professionalism. Give me Adama Sanogo on a 10 day.

Do not want Collin Murray Boyles. There's 5 Javonte Green's out there for the veteran minimum.

Do want Essengue. Seems to be the most athletic "big" (a face the basket guy) with the most upside. Probably won't be available. Never seen him play so that's probably why I like him.

I get it why the more scouts see a player (like Ayo or Brunson), the less they like them. They are looking for traits. Hide Pat on the bench as a freshman and all you got are traits that look enticing. They also look for "an NBA skill", which tends to pigeon hole guys before they get into the league. He's a shooter. He's a rim runner. He's a three and D guy etc. Guys who are good at basketball but don't necessarily fill a defined role get overlooked. It's why Mirotic left the NBA. The league wanted him but wanted him to be a spot up shooter only. He wanted to play basketball, not stand in a corner all game and wait for the ball to come to him.

It seems like the Bulls whiff a lot when they are drafting around this area (other than maybe Buzelis we'll see). James Johnson, McBuckets, Snell, Valentine, Terry. At least McBuckets and Johnson had careers.

Kinda hit the nail on the head for me with all that, but especially the highlighted. I firmly believe the best guys that we'd want at 12 will be gone (KJ, Maluach), and the guys left at 12 that are best fits are a reach to begin with but also highest bust potential (CMB, Essengue, Bryant, Newell). I just want something better than Dalen Terry, Julian Phillips, Patrick Williams etc, because AKME is in love with these 3-D project wings that don't pan out.

[MrSparkle]

I'm not a scout, but I stay at a Holiday Inn Select last night (and listened to draft focused podcasts).

Do not want Queen. Undersized, unathletic, no D, can't shoot threes. Regardless of work ethic and motivation concerns, he's not a good fit for a team that wants to play fast and shoot a lot of 3's like what the Bulls professes they want to do. Vuc without the three or the professionalism. Give me Adama Sanogo on a 10 day.

Do not want Collin Murray Boyles. There's 5 Javonte Green's out there for the veteran minimum.

Do want Essengue. Seems to be the most athletic "big" (a face the basket guy) with the most upside. Probably won't be available. Never seen him play so that's probably why I like him.

I get it why the more scouts see a player (like Ayo or Brunson), the less they like them. They are looking for traits. Hide Pat on the bench as a freshman and all you got are traits that look enticing. They also look for "an NBA skill", which tends to pigeon hole guys before they get into the league. He's a shooter. He's a rim runner. He's a three and D guy etc. Guys who are good at basketball but don't necessarily fill a defined role get overlooked. It's why Mirotic left the NBA. The league wanted him but wanted him to be a spot up shooter only. He wanted to play basketball, not stand in a corner all game and wait for the ball to come to him.

It seems like the Bulls whiff a lot when they are drafting around this area (other than maybe Buzelis we'll see). James Johnson, McBuckets, Snell, Valentine, Terry. At least McBuckets and Johnson had careers.

Right on Jello.

I do think Queen in the right situation will be a good pick. He can score facing up, posting up, contested or open, he can dribble and he can pass. I think if he plays for the right coach/teammates who encourage/mentor him instead of blast his personality, his skills are easily translatable. I can envision the Bulls/Donovan being a disaster, but who knows.

[Almost Retired]

On a trade down and picking Fleming and Kalkbrenner all of a sudden we have a good trio (with Matas) of rim protectors. Which could help us considering neither Coby nor Giddey are lock down defenders. But we'd have length and should be able to be very disruptive in the passing lanes and very versatile with Matas and Fleming able to guard 1-4.

[MGB8]

On a trade down and picking Fleming and Kalkbrenner all of a sudden we have a good trio (with Matas) of rim protectors. Which could help us considering neither Coby nor Giddey are lock down defenders. But we'd have length and should be able to be very disruptive in the passing lanes and very versatile with Matas and Fleming able to guard 1-4.

Preach! I’m still at “if KJ doesn’t fall, trade down if can.” Two shots in the 16-26 ish range to me is, in this draft, completely worth 1 shot at 12.

[Red Larrivee]

I'm very much a floor guy, but....I don't understand trading down from the lottery to draft lower ceiling players who don't impact the game at the level as players in our range do.

[ChiTownHero1992]

On a trade down and picking Fleming and Kalkbrenner all of a sudden we have a good trio (with Matas) of rim protectors. Which could help us considering neither Coby nor Giddey are lock down defenders. But we'd have length and should be able to be very disruptive in the passing lanes and very versatile with Matas and Fleming able to guard 1-4.

I personally just don't see NBA starting material out of either of those guys, even on a sh**ty rebuilding team. Both of those guys scream role player / long term bench roles / spot starts at best. This team needs long term starters or to take a flyer on gusy that have that potential. If the team brought back as is next year but adding your two, i dont see Kalbrenner seeing many if any minutes, and Fleming would get some run off the bench but probably very sporadic and not many minutes at all.

[Jello Biafra]

On a trade down and picking Fleming and Kalkbrenner all of a sudden we have a good trio (with Matas) of rim protectors. Which could help us considering neither Coby nor Giddey are lock down defenders. But we'd have length and should be able to be very disruptive in the passing lanes and very versatile with Matas and Fleming able to guard 1-4.

I don't get why you'd trade down from 12 in almost any draft. If you like a guy you stay put and take him, not trade down and hope he falls to where he is "projected". The Kevin O'Conner's of the world aren't doing the drafting. If he was, you'd be picking guys like Killian Hayes first overall. If you like a guy, chances are some other team does too. It's not worth a second, a future second and/or a moderate to severe case of bad contract to hope your guy falls.