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Magic Offseason Finances Update

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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#21 » by Redick07 » Wed Jun 25, 2025 11:30 am

basketballRob wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:i would see if nets want jett for the 22 pick they just got then try to trade pick 25 for future pick saving 7 mill then try to stay under tax 1 more yr
keep from repeater tax 1 yr more so do not have to make move that loses a core player in 26/27 then in 27/28 will even out more with cap and tax going up each yr
cant sign full mle then need to pay to get off it in yr..boston repeater tax was killer they only took off 27 mill salary and saved them 197 mill in tax
magic not big enough market for that crazy money
need health and no min anyway
They wouldn't want Jett for any pick. Jett should've been picked at the end of the first round. Now he's overpaid. We would need to give them like the #45 pick to take him.

We got a future 2nd for Elfrid Payton, but he showed way more than Jett. Jett's biggest value is that he will be an expiring after we don't pick up his option.

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We don’t have #45
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#22 » by basketballRob » Wed Jun 25, 2025 11:33 am

Redick07 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:i would see if nets want jett for the 22 pick they just got then try to trade pick 25 for future pick saving 7 mill then try to stay under tax 1 more yr
keep from repeater tax 1 yr more so do not have to make move that loses a core player in 26/27 then in 27/28 will even out more with cap and tax going up each yr
cant sign full mle then need to pay to get off it in yr..boston repeater tax was killer they only took off 27 mill salary and saved them 197 mill in tax
magic not big enough market for that crazy money
need health and no min anyway
They wouldn't want Jett for any pick. Jett should've been picked at the end of the first round. Now he's overpaid. We would need to give them like the #45 pick to take him.

We got a future 2nd for Elfrid Payton, but he showed way more than Jett. Jett's biggest value is that he will be an expiring after we don't pick up his option.

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We don’t have #45
#46

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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#23 » by Knightro » Wed Jun 25, 2025 11:34 am

drsd wrote:
Knightro wrote:Orlando currently has $193,386,181 in salary committed to 13 players. This figure includes Moe Wagner, Caleb Houstan and the 25th pick in the 2025 NBA Draft.


I have it at 193,385,297 (USD 884 difference) :D

Franz Wagner 38,661,700
Desmond Bane 36,725,670
Jalen Suggs 35,000,000
Paolo Banchero 15,334,769
Jonathan Isaac 15,000,000
Wendell Carter 10,850,000
Goga Bitadze 8,333,333
Anthony Black 7,970,028
Jett Howard 5,529,506
Tristan da Silva 3,809,520
Mr #25 2,983,320
Moritz Wagner 11,000,000
Caleb Houstan 2,187,451


Anyhow, I have the 1st apron at 195,946,000, meaning the Magic has 2.55M left for Mr. Player 14. That is in contrast to the 1,325,729 you suggest. This matters a lot, as 2.6 is enough for an under 6-year vet. The 1.4M you have ONLY provides enough money for an undrafted rookie or a 2nd round pick. That's it, without another move - if your moneys and not mine are correct.


Bane’s unlikely to be earned incentives count towards the tax aprons. They don’t count towards the cap sheet or luxury tax unless he actually earns them.

So they have less than you are projecting.
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#24 » by Knightro » Wed Jun 25, 2025 11:52 am

drsd wrote:
Orlando Dawg wrote:What happens if the Magic use the Mo Wagner option to play 1 more year for 11 mil.
After that is over would they be blocked from resigning him due to the apron? Or could they give him a raise then.


Orlando has full Bird-rights to M-Wagner. Even over the 1st apron, they can resign him - all the way to a Max-deal actually. No worries.


They do, but it’s also trickier than this.

If the Magic decline Moe’s option, they don’t actually get the $11M off their books to use the MLE unless they renounce his bird rights since his cap hold will still exist.

Now they don’t have to actually renounce his bird rights until they actually make a MLE signing, and it’s possible A. they strike out on their main targets in free agency, or B. they could use Moe’s bird rights to sign him to a new contract before they officially make a MLE signing.

What they can’t do is decline the option, make a MLE signing and then resign Moe using bird rights to whatever he wants. From a practical sense they can’t do that because they’ll be hard capped, but in reality they can’t do it either because they could have to renounce his bird rights to actually see the benefits of declining his option.
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#25 » by cedric76 » Wed Jun 25, 2025 12:38 pm

Knightro wrote:As we are on the eve of the NBA Draft and approaching free agency, I figured this would be a good thread to update on the current financial situation for the Magic.

Orlando currently has $193,386,181 in salary committed to 13 players. This figure includes Moe Wagner, Caleb Houstan and the 25th pick in the 2025 NBA Draft.

That puts them $5,491,181 OVER the luxury tax, $1,325,729 UNDER the first apron and $13,204,729 UNDER the second apron. They are currently hard capped at the second apron due to the aggregation of contracts in the Desmond Bane trade. These apron figures include Bane's unlikely to be earned incentives for 25-26 which are $1,233,090 (unlikely to be earned incentives DO count against the tax aprons, but DO NOT count against the cap sheet or luxury tax itself).

The Magic will become hard capped at the first apron ($195,945,000) if they 1. get access to their full midlevel exception ($14,105,000) and use more than the taxpayer midlevel ($5,685,000) out of it, 2. use their bi-annual exception ($5,135,000) or 3. execute any sign-and-trade.

Orlando would normally become hard capped at the second apron ($207,824,000) by using their taxpayer MLE ($5.685M). However, this doesn't apply as the Magic are already hard capped at the second apron via the Bane trade.

If the Magic decline Moe Wagner's $11,000,000 team option, they will dip from $193,386,181 to $182,386,181 in committed salary. That will put them $16,491,181 BELOW the luxury tax and will give them access to the full $14,105,000 non-taxpayer midlevel exception.

However, as stated above, if the Magic do use the full $14.105M MLE, that will trigger a hard cap for them at the first apron ($195.945M). But they would only be $12,325,729 below the first apron. So they would actually be $1,779,271 short of being able to use the full $14.105M MLE due to the hard cap at the first apron.

So...

The only way the Magic can access *and* use the full $14.105 non-taxpayer MLE would be to decline Moe Wagner *and* shed another $1,779,271 million. They could do this a variety of ways - declining Houstan or (more likely) trading Jett Howard, Jonathan Isaac, Goga Bitadze or Wendell Carter for less money than they bring back.

Now...

If the Magic decline Moe Wagner's option *and* opt to use their MLE before they decide whether or not they are bringing Moe back (this is not how the order of operations would go down, but bear with me), they would have to also renounce Moe's bird rights at the same time which would mean he would only be able to return on a veteran minimum contract at that point unless they did even more cap maneuvering to access the full BAE which is slightly more than a veteran minimum for Moe.

The more likely scenario is they decline Moe's contract at $11,000,00 and then resign him to a new contract for less than he is set to make currently BEFORE they officially make whatever MLE signing they intend to make. If Moe were to sign for $5,500,000 in Year 1 (I have no idea if he would agree to this), that would move the Magic below the luxury tax and give them access to the full $14.1 MLE. They would still not be able to use all of it without moving off another contract, but it would maximize the amount of money that they could pay Moe instead of being limited to only being able to offer him the veteran minimum.

Does any of this make sense? :lol:


Very good, exact breakdown
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#26 » by mattdelray1220 » Wed Jun 25, 2025 12:56 pm

IMO
decline Moe pay him 8+8 Player Option. That way he can decide next year and it's a way to "thank him" for taking less.
Pick up Caleb
Sign Spencer Dinwiddie 1yr 3 million. Scoring PG who has been there done that. Can play 12-20 minutes. Make shots.

I do not think they trade JI WCJ Goga (this year) Next year 1-2 of those guys are gone BUT we are going to have veterans LINING UP to come play with our team in beautiful Central Florida to try and win a ring. Say what you want about the FO - they have been super savvy with the contracts. They will get the most bang for their buck.

I love the Orlando fanbase. "SPEND MONEY OWNERSHIP!!!!" Every year. Then they do and now we are all figuring out ways they can save money. LMAO!
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#27 » by cedric76 » Wed Jun 25, 2025 2:08 pm

Knightro wrote:The more I think about this, the more it feels like the choice is coming down to Goga v. Moritz.

If they're comfortable letting Moe walk, then Goga stays.

If they're committed to Moritz being back, then Goga needs to be traded away for a guard/wing.

The other alternative would be picking someone they are confident can fill Isaac's minutes and then trading him instead.

I think drafting a guard at 25, drafting a big at 46, signing a veteran guard and then flipping Goga for a wing is probably the best way to balance the roster overall.


With Franz in the team I think they ll re-sign Moe (hopefully to something below 7M) and trade goga once Moe is back 100% next feb
Suggs, Tyus, Jase
Bane, AB, Jett
Franz, TDS,
P5, JI, Panda
Wcj, Goga, Moe
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#28 » by fendilim » Wed Jun 25, 2025 3:06 pm

Trade wcj and goga.

Wcj is good value but often injured. With so much money tied up, we will be better off having wcj traded cause he is just ok.

Goga is too expensive for a 3rd stringer and occasional starter.
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#29 » by OrlandoDream » Wed Jun 25, 2025 3:06 pm

cedric76 wrote:
Knightro wrote:The more I think about this, the more it feels like the choice is coming down to Goga v. Moritz.

If they're comfortable letting Moe walk, then Goga stays.

If they're committed to Moritz being back, then Goga needs to be traded away for a guard/wing.

The other alternative would be picking someone they are confident can fill Isaac's minutes and then trading him instead.

I think drafting a guard at 25, drafting a big at 46, signing a veteran guard and then flipping Goga for a wing is probably the best way to balance the roster overall.


With Franz in the team I think they ll re-sign Moe (hopefully to something below 7M) and trade goga once Moe is back 100% next feb

I just don't trust JI as a backup C option during the playoffs. We need some kind of paint defense backup in Goga. I think its gonna be JI that get the cut. The moves we make this offseason are going to be telling if we are able to avoid 2nd apron wonce Paolo contract kicks in 26-27 season.
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#30 » by jezzerinho » Wed Jun 25, 2025 3:12 pm

cedric76 wrote:
Knightro wrote:The more I think about this, the more it feels like the choice is coming down to Goga v. Moritz.

If they're comfortable letting Moe walk, then Goga stays.

If they're committed to Moritz being back, then Goga needs to be traded away for a guard/wing.

The other alternative would be picking someone they are confident can fill Isaac's minutes and then trading him instead.

I think drafting a guard at 25, drafting a big at 46, signing a veteran guard and then flipping Goga for a wing is probably the best way to balance the roster overall.


With Franz in the team I think they ll re-sign Moe (hopefully to something below 7M) and trade goga once Moe is back 100% next feb


Not gonna happen, imo.

If you're Moe, the fact your lil bro is in the team earning 35m and you're a v decent player earning 11m last year likely means you only want your salary to go one direction- UP!

The injury was a setback but by all accounts he's aiming to be right for training camp. If so, explain to me why a guy who - due to his own understandable professional pride - 12 months ago felt under valued and underappreciated, would now take a 4m paycut in his prime? I'll be amazed if it happens.
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#31 » by VFX » Wed Jun 25, 2025 5:00 pm

One of Goga, Carter, or Isaac are gone. You can bank on that.

They aren't going to let Moe walk or trade him coming off an ACL injury and he's Franz' brother. Not only that, but he has an elite skillset that the bench lacks glaringly. People need to wrap their minds around that reality.

They absolutely CAN draft a guard tonight but should they?
Only if they believe this potential guard can START on this team given the fact that they have contention aspirations now after the Bane trade. Starting only in the aspect that the back court is extremely injury prone and will undoubtedly require a player with a guard ball handler skillset that this roster still doesn't have.

You simply cannot justify paying a bunch of one way defensive bigs that make decent money given the nature of the roster and cap space implications of resigning Moe to a deal that isn't a slap in the face.
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#32 » by cedric76 » Wed Jun 25, 2025 7:01 pm

jezzerinho wrote:
cedric76 wrote:
Knightro wrote:The more I think about this, the more it feels like the choice is coming down to Goga v. Moritz.

If they're comfortable letting Moe walk, then Goga stays.

If they're committed to Moritz being back, then Goga needs to be traded away for a guard/wing.

The other alternative would be picking someone they are confident can fill Isaac's minutes and then trading him instead.

I think drafting a guard at 25, drafting a big at 46, signing a veteran guard and then flipping Goga for a wing is probably the best way to balance the roster overall.


With Franz in the team I think they ll re-sign Moe (hopefully to something below 7M) and trade goga once Moe is back 100% next feb


Not gonna happen, imo.

If you're Moe, the fact your lil bro is in the team earning 35m and you're a v decent player earning 11m last year likely means you only want your salary to go one direction- UP!

The injury was a setback but by all accounts he's aiming to be right for training camp. If so, explain to me why a guy who - due to his own understandable professional pride - 12 months ago felt under valued and underappreciated, would now take a 4m paycut in his prime? I'll be amazed if it happens.


If we offer him over 7M it s because we don't want to upset Franz, as you wouldn't risk to spend so much money on an Injured player
Suggs, Tyus, Jase
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Franz, TDS,
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#33 » by Skybox » Wed Jun 25, 2025 7:58 pm

jezzerinho wrote:
cedric76 wrote:
Knightro wrote:The more I think about this, the more it feels like the choice is coming down to Goga v. Moritz.

If they're comfortable letting Moe walk, then Goga stays.

If they're committed to Moritz being back, then Goga needs to be traded away for a guard/wing.

The other alternative would be picking someone they are confident can fill Isaac's minutes and then trading him instead.

I think drafting a guard at 25, drafting a big at 46, signing a veteran guard and then flipping Goga for a wing is probably the best way to balance the roster overall.


With Franz in the team I think they ll re-sign Moe (hopefully to something below 7M) and trade goga once Moe is back 100% next feb


Not gonna happen, imo.

If you're Moe, the fact your lil bro is in the team earning 35m and you're a v decent player earning 11m last year likely means you only want your salary to go one direction- UP!

The injury was a setback but by all accounts he's aiming to be right for training camp. If so, explain to me why a guy who - due to his own understandable professional pride - 12 months ago felt under valued and underappreciated, would now take a 4m paycut in his prime? I'll be amazed if it happens.


First I've heard of that timeline...I thought it was more like December return and (generally) significant ramp up period to trust your knee again.
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#34 » by RookieStar » Wed Jun 25, 2025 8:19 pm

Skybox wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:
cedric76 wrote:
With Franz in the team I think they ll re-sign Moe (hopefully to something below 7M) and trade goga once Moe is back 100% next feb


Not gonna happen, imo.

If you're Moe, the fact your lil bro is in the team earning 35m and you're a v decent player earning 11m last year likely means you only want your salary to go one direction- UP!

The injury was a setback but by all accounts he's aiming to be right for training camp. If so, explain to me why a guy who - due to his own understandable professional pride - 12 months ago felt under valued and underappreciated, would now take a 4m paycut in his prime? I'll be amazed if it happens.


First I've heard of that timeline...I thought it was more like December return and (generally) significant ramp up period to trust your knee again.


Yeah... a lot of us are thinking his first game would be around January.
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#35 » by jezzerinho » Wed Jun 25, 2025 9:01 pm

RookieStar wrote:
Skybox wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:
Not gonna happen, imo.

If you're Moe, the fact your lil bro is in the team earning 35m and you're a v decent player earning 11m last year likely means you only want your salary to go one direction- UP!

The injury was a setback but by all accounts he's aiming to be right for training camp. If so, explain to me why a guy who - due to his own understandable professional pride - 12 months ago felt under valued and underappreciated, would now take a 4m paycut in his prime? I'll be amazed if it happens.


First I've heard of that timeline...I thought it was more like December return and (generally) significant ramp up period to trust your knee again.


Yeah... a lot of us are thinking his first game would be around January.


“It’s tough to watch, but at the same time you have a decision,” Moritz Wagner said. “You can sulk about it and be mad, or you can take it as an opportunity to grow and learn from it, and view the game from a different perspective. I tried to do that, tried to ask questions and tried to look at basketball from a different view, and I learned a lot about this group and myself, especially. I’m very excited to be playing again to use that and become more professional, more equipped to (have) a successful career.”

It has been about four months since Wagner underwent knee surgery, and he’s focused on being ready for the start of training camp. He didn’t share many details about his rehab process, but Beede states that he was often seen in the team’s weight room, on a stationary bike or shooting on the court throughout the playoffs.


The guy's in a contract year so he's not going to say he's wrecked, but it'd be also foolis to create false hope around a return and then miss it. Take with a pinch of salt, but it sounds like he's on track.
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#36 » by RookieStar » Wed Jun 25, 2025 9:07 pm

jezzerinho wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Skybox wrote:
First I've heard of that timeline...I thought it was more like December return and (generally) significant ramp up period to trust your knee again.


Yeah... a lot of us are thinking his first game would be around January.


“It’s tough to watch, but at the same time you have a decision,” Moritz Wagner said. “You can sulk about it and be mad, or you can take it as an opportunity to grow and learn from it, and view the game from a different perspective. I tried to do that, tried to ask questions and tried to look at basketball from a different view, and I learned a lot about this group and myself, especially. I’m very excited to be playing again to use that and become more professional, more equipped to (have) a successful career.”

It has been about four months since Wagner underwent knee surgery, and he’s focused on being ready for the start of training camp. He didn’t share many details about his rehab process, but Beede states that he was often seen in the team’s weight room, on a stationary bike or shooting on the court throughout the playoffs.


The guy's in a contract year so he's not going to say he's wrecked, but it'd be also foolis to create false hope around a return and then miss it. Take with a pinch of salt, but it sounds like he's on track.


Yes but remember we are the Orlando Magic.

Reports saying Franz/Paolo was ready to go right now after their obliques but our org extended it to some additonal few week latwe
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#37 » by basketballRob » Wed Jun 25, 2025 9:11 pm

RookieStar wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Yeah... a lot of us are thinking his first game would be around January.


“It’s tough to watch, but at the same time you have a decision,” Moritz Wagner said. “You can sulk about it and be mad, or you can take it as an opportunity to grow and learn from it, and view the game from a different perspective. I tried to do that, tried to ask questions and tried to look at basketball from a different view, and I learned a lot about this group and myself, especially. I’m very excited to be playing again to use that and become more professional, more equipped to (have) a successful career.”

It has been about four months since Wagner underwent knee surgery, and he’s focused on being ready for the start of training camp. He didn’t share many details about his rehab process, but Beede states that he was often seen in the team’s weight room, on a stationary bike or shooting on the court throughout the playoffs.


The guy's in a contract year so he's not going to say he's wrecked, but it'd be also foolis to create false hope around a return and then miss it. Take with a pinch of salt, but it sounds like he's on track.


Yes but remember we are the Orlando Magic.

Reports saying Franz/Paolo was ready to go right now after their obliques but our org extended it to some additonal few week latwe
Franz said that his oblique may have contributed to his poor shooting after he came back. Paolo also shot terrible for a month after he came back. I remember Bane struggling for a while after he came back from his, too.



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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#38 » by flying_mollusk » Wed Jun 25, 2025 9:14 pm

Knightro wrote:The Magic will become hard capped at the first apron ($195,945,000) if they 1. get access to their full midlevel exception ($14,105,000) and use more than the taxpayer midlevel ($5,685,000) out of it, 2. use their bi-annual exception ($5,135,000) or 3. execute any sign-and-trade.


Silly question. Can you clarify this? If they don't waive Mo, can they go above the first apron using the full midlevel exception? Or is it just the amount that gets them to the hard cap/first apron - $1,325 million? I'm confused because you said they would be hard capped if they got access to their full midlevel exception, but then wouldn't they not be able to use the full midlevel exception?

Knightro wrote:If the Magic decline Moe Wagner's $11,000,000 team option, they will dip from $193,386,181 to $182,386,181 in committed salary. That will put them $16,491,181 BELOW the luxury tax and will give them access to the full $14,105,000 non-taxpayer midlevel exception.

However, as stated above, if the Magic do use the full $14.105M MLE, that will trigger a hard cap for them at the first apron ($195.945M). But they would only be $12,325,729 below the first apron. So they would actually be $1,779,271 short of being able to use the full $14.105M MLE due to the hard cap at the first apron.


Also confused by this. If they are $16,491,181 below the luxury tax, how would they be $12,325,729 below the first apron? Isn't the luxury tax below the first apron?
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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#39 » by basketballRob » Wed Jun 25, 2025 9:16 pm

flying_mollusk wrote:
Knightro wrote:The Magic will become hard capped at the first apron ($195,945,000) if they 1. get access to their full midlevel exception ($14,105,000) and use more than the taxpayer midlevel ($5,685,000) out of it, 2. use their bi-annual exception ($5,135,000) or 3. execute any sign-and-trade.


Silly question. Can you clarify this? If they don't waive Mo, can they go above the first apron using the full midlevel exception? Or is it just the amount that gets them to the hard cap/first apron - $1,325 million? I'm confused because you said they would be hard capped if they got access to their full midlevel exception, but then wouldn't they not be able to use the full midlevel exception?

Knightro wrote:If the Magic decline Moe Wagner's $11,000,000 team option, they will dip from $193,386,181 to $182,386,181 in committed salary. That will put them $16,491,181 BELOW the luxury tax and will give them access to the full $14,105,000 non-taxpayer midlevel exception.

However, as stated above, if the Magic do use the full $14.105M MLE, that will trigger a hard cap for them at the first apron ($195.945M). But they would only be $12,325,729 below the first apron. So they would actually be $1,779,271 short of being able to use the full $14.105M MLE due to the hard cap at the first apron.


Also confused by this. If they are $16,491,181 below the luxury tax, how would they be $12,325,729 below the first apron? Isn't the luxury tax below the first apron?
The tax threshold is $187.9m.

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Re: Magic Offseason Finances Update 

Post#40 » by jezzerinho » Wed Jun 25, 2025 9:19 pm

basketballRob wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:


The guy's in a contract year so he's not going to say he's wrecked, but it'd be also foolis to create false hope around a return and then miss it. Take with a pinch of salt, but it sounds like he's on track.


Yes but remember we are the Orlando Magic.

Reports saying Franz/Paolo was ready to go right now after their obliques but our org extended it to some additonal few week latwe
Franz said that his oblique may have contributed to his poor shooting after he came back. Paolo also shot terrible for a month after he came back. I remember Bane struggling for a while after he came back from his, too.



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Just as well Moritz didn't do his oblique then.

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