2025 Draft Thread - Part 3

[NatP4]

Seems like Jakucionis is dropping into the 10-14 range. Would love to trade up and get him.

He's talented with good size for a PG, but so turnover-prone. I think he's more combo than a 1 in the NBA. We might move up to get Bailey at 3 or 4, I don't think we'll have an 18th pick unless we trade a future pick. Even if we don't trade up, I'm not trading a future FRP to move up to get him.

I agree, but think he’s a nice fit next to Carrington. Just turned 19& the injury definitely tanked his production a bit.

I’d do something like Kispert+future 2nd+18 to move up into the 10-14 for any of Jakucionis/CMB/Essengue.

[NatP4]

Kon Knueppel is a good example of where advanced stats can steer you wrong. Aint no way this dude gonna be anything more than a mercenary three point bench wing.

King Kon seems like the advanced stat geeks dream. A heavy footed high IQ'er who makes all the right plays, especially the ones he doesn't try to make. Bro has literally been the perfect college role player. I dont understand how that translated to top 3-5 value among spreadsheet FC.

This is not even the case. Stat nerds aren’t nearly as high on Knueppel as actual professional draft analysts:

Read on Twitter

[The Consiglieri]

So what does all this news suggest? Bailey or Maluach or Tre?

I'm a huge Tre skeptic w/the inside issues and defense, I just am not interested, I'd rather they trade down or up if that's the pick. But it definitely is starting to feel like Bailey or Maluach make the most sense. I can't decide whether to be sad or not that we aren't interested in Fears. I think he could become special, and I am a bit concerned on betting on Bub as a PG.....I think our top 3 interests would be Harper (unavailable), Bailey, and Maluach though, hopefully we come out with one of them (Harper's a pipe dream I know but still)....18 is getting more interesting....does the news suggest we want a big and Bailey and won't go after a PG at either 6 or 18? Interesting.

[80sballboy]

Seems like Jakucionis is dropping into the 10-14 range. Would love to trade up and get him.

He's talented with good size for a PG, but so turnover-prone. I think he's more combo than a 1 in the NBA. We might move up to get Bailey at 3 or 4, I don't think we'll have an 18th pick unless we trade a future pick. Even if we don't trade up, I'm not trading a future FRP to move up to get him.

I agree, but think he’s a nice fit next to Carrington. Just turned 19& the injury definitely tanked his production a bit.

I’d do something like Kispert+future 2nd+18 to move up into the 10-14 for any of Jakucionis/CMB/Essengue.

I'd do that for CMB even though we'd have about 10 forwards if we get Ace.

[The Consiglieri]

Kon Knueppel is a good example of where advanced stats can steer you wrong. Aint no way this dude gonna be anything more than a mercenary three point bench wing.

He's definitely more than that, but I've always felt that anyone lifting him up into top 3-5 territory is insane. He's a perfect target for a team that needs shooting and predictability as a 4th or 5th option: he's a perfect fit for teams to me that are already contenders and need a shooter, he's a horrific fit for teams that are disasters (us, Charlotte, Utah etc). Any team that is thinking of just drafting him top 5 should trade down, and either get him, or just get the value that falls if someone reaches for him. But just some 3 point bench wing? Nah, not at all, he's a lot more of an offensive threat than that. He was plugged right into Duke's #1 option after Flagg went down and they were absolutely fine. There's a reason he was a top 10-20 recruit (more top 15-20 I think) for a pretty loaded '24 group. He's damn good. He's just not a transformative player in any way in terms of ceiling, even Fears could be that, which is why him going top 3-5 is insane to me. If you just need a reliable offensive piece that can legit shoot it out, trade down. But for our purposes, him going inside that top 5 is a dream come true.

[closg00]

We aren't going to the playoffs for another 2-3 years. I don't think Bub is all that, but there's no reason why they can't give him a shot to improve and then look for one in free agency, draft or trades, if he's not the guy. Maybe they love Fears or this is a smokescreen. I would prefer to take a shot at Bailey.

I disagree, AJ more resembled a PG than Bub, the development of Sarr and whoever we draft tonight will suffer if we don’t get a PG and run an offense.

Point guards are important, but not as much as they used to be. Now you have secondary ballhandlers like Bilal and Kyshawn George. Bub is just 18. You act as if he'll never improve, and again, if he doesn't, then move on and he'll be a combo guard off the bench or just a 2. Sure AJ could also be an option at the point and CJ can run some point.

What position in pro basketball ball is more critical to a teams success than PG? Bub can continue to grow as a guard, but his existing toolbox are not that of a PG for all of the reasons I mentioned above. A PG that cannot keep defense honest is not a PG, teams know that Bub is going to avoid the paint, so it makes the defending against us much easier, the Wizards ranked dead last in offensive output last year.

[machu46]

Kon Knueppel is a good example of where advanced stats can steer you wrong. Aint no way this dude gonna be anything more than a mercenary three point bench wing.

King Kon seems like the advanced stat geeks dream. A heavy footed high IQ'er who makes all the right plays, especially the ones he doesn't try to make. Bro has literally been the perfect college role player. I dont understand how that translated to top 3-5 value among spreadsheet FC.

This is not even the case. Stat nerds aren’t nearly as high on Knueppel as actual professional draft analysts:

Read on Twitter

The stats folks are slightly lower on him, but it's not super significant really. He goes from #3 to #6, which is generally considered to be the same tier this year.

[pcbothwel]

Seems like Jakucionis is dropping into the 10-14 range. Would love to trade up and get him.

He's talented with good size for a PG, but so turnover-prone. I think he's more combo than a 1 in the NBA. We might move up to get Bailey at 3 or 4, I don't think we'll have an 18th pick unless we trade a future pick. Even if we don't trade up, I'm not trading a future FRP to move up to get him.

Wolf and Jakucionis are being severely underrated. Both are excellent passers, with Jaku being the best in the class (Yes, hes better than Demin). Their turnovers come from trying to force high level passes, not because they arent seeing the floor. HUGE difference in projection.

Jaku's processing and eye discipline is elite, and we will have a 10–12-year career as a Dragic style guard.
Steal outside the top 10

[badinage]

I disagree, AJ more resembled a PG than Bub, the development of Sarr and whoever we draft tonight will suffer if we don’t get a PG and run an offense.

Point guards are important, but not as much as they used to be. Now you have secondary ballhandlers like Bilal and Kyshawn George. Bub is just 18. You act as if he'll never improve, and again, if he doesn't, then move on and he'll be a combo guard off the bench or just a 2. Sure AJ could also be an option at the point and CJ can run some point.

What position in pro basketball ball is more critical to a teams success than PG? Bub can continue to grow as a guard, but his existing toolbox are not that of a PG for all of the reasons I mentioned above. A PG that cannot keep defense honest is not a PG, teams know that Bub is going to avoid the paint, so it makes the defending against us much easier, the Wizards ranked dead last in offensive output last year.

He was a rookie! Not a finished product! You don’t think he’s going to continue to get bigger and stronger and add parts to his game?

[NatP4]

Seems like Jakucionis is dropping into the 10-14 range. Would love to trade up and get him.

He's talented with good size for a PG, but so turnover-prone. I think he's more combo than a 1 in the NBA. We might move up to get Bailey at 3 or 4, I don't think we'll have an 18th pick unless we trade a future pick. Even if we don't trade up, I'm not trading a future FRP to move up to get him.

Wolf and Jakucionis are being severely underrated. Both are excellent passers, with Jaku being the best in the class (Yes, hes better than Demin). Their turnovers come from trying to force high level passes, not because they arent seeing the floor. HUGE difference in projection.

Jaku's processing and eye discipline is elite, and we will have a 10–12-year career as a Dragic style guard.
Steal outside the top 10

I would much prefer to trade down and get CMB&Jakucionis as opposed to Bailey+whoever at 18.

No one will convince me that Bailey is a better prospect than CMB/Essengue.

[80sballboy]

Seems like Jakucionis is dropping into the 10-14 range. Would love to trade up and get him.

He's talented with good size for a PG, but so turnover-prone. I think he's more combo than a 1 in the NBA. We might move up to get Bailey at 3 or 4, I don't think we'll have an 18th pick unless we trade a future pick. Even if we don't trade up, I'm not trading a future FRP to move up to get him.

Wolf and Jakucionis are being severely underrated. Both are excellent passers, with Jaku being the best in the class (Yes, hes better than Demin). Their turnovers come from trying to force high level passes, not because they arent seeing the floor. HUGE difference in projection.

Jaku's processing and eye discipline is elite, and we will have a 10–12-year career as a Dragic style guard.
Steal outside the top 10

Don't see it with Jaku. Just my opinion having watched him 6-8 times on the Big Ten Network. Of course, he's young so he has time to correct them.

[TGW]

Read on Twitter

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Newell and Fleming will have more NBA success than Ace Bailey.

Bailey will score and block shots, but he's at best, Dominique Wilkins.

Newell and Fleming with Sarr would be filthy defensively. All three have Siakim potential.

Dominique Wilkins was pretty good, CCJ. If that's Bailey's comp, I'll take that over Siakim all day everyday.

I had a LONG response, but my phone went dead.

I hate when that happens.

Dominique Wilkins, The Human Highlight Reel, was no joke. He certainly was HOF-worthy.

CONTROVERSIAL TAKE TO FOLLOW:

Wilkins, Tracy McGrady, and Vince Carter won ZERO combined championship.

As great a Kobe Bryant was, he needed Shaq and Horry; or each of Pau, Meta, Odom, and healthy Bynum to win a chip.

WHICH PLAYER YOU CHOOSE to star t a franchise;

Healthy Kawhi Leonard or Dominique Wilkins?

Kevin Broom and doclinkin both have pinpointed Newell and Fleming. Both of them are SURE THING contributors at both ends.

Newell has the Amare Stoudamire not-so-beneath-the-radar that you shouldn't see him coming and exploding at the next level.

TGW, I will be happy either way. Ace will definitely put butts in the seats and make Sports Center Top 10 plays for years to come.

I think, however, I prefer the grinders. Hard hat guys win. Newell with a jumper could rival Cooper Flagg.

[tontoz]

He's talented with good size for a PG, but so turnover-prone. I think he's more combo than a 1 in the NBA. We might move up to get Bailey at 3 or 4, I don't think we'll have an 18th pick unless we trade a future pick. Even if we don't trade up, I'm not trading a future FRP to move up to get him.

Wolf and Jakucionis are being severely underrated. Both are excellent passers, with Jaku being the best in the class (Yes, hes better than Demin). Their turnovers come from trying to force high level passes, not because they arent seeing the floor. HUGE difference in projection.

Jaku's processing and eye discipline is elite, and we will have a 10–12-year career as a Dragic style guard.
Steal outside the top 10

Don't see it with Jaku. Just my opinion having watched him 6-8 times on the Big Ten Network. Of course, he's young so he has time to correct them.

I dont see it either. He struggled to separate from his defender without a pick. A lot of his turnovers were really bad decisions that had little chance to be completed.

I didn't see any improvement with the turnovers over the course of the season which is concerning. He had a total of 24 turnovers in his 4 tournament games.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

My Final 2025 NBA Draft board.

Tier 1: None

Tier 2:
1 – SF/PF Cooper Flagg
Why I like him – Do it all 18-yr old with unusual maturity, motor & work ethic. Two-way high-level upside with playmaking potential, solid face up game & shooting.
Why I am concerned – Does not have a ‘bag’ – limited number of moves to shot create. Skill level says he is a more ‘fill in the gaps’ than ‘take over’ a game type of guy but he can still expand it more.

2 – PG/SG Dylan Harper
Why I like him – Walking paint touch – best since Ja Morant but has the size & frame to withstand the contact & consistently finish.
Why I am concerned – Must improve pull-up shooting to unlock 1st option upside.

Tier 3:
3 – SG V.J. Edgecombe
Why I like him – Elite functional athlete with high motor, improving skill & two-way superstar upside.
Why I am concerned – Handle is developing and still needs to improve to truly unlock slashing ability.

4 – SG Tre Johnson
Why I like him – Elite, versatile shooting prospect. We called Reed Sheppard elite last year, well this kid is 3 inches taller and just as good! Solid handle with decent court vision.
Why I am concerned – Needs to lock in on defense or he’ll become a huge drag on that end.

5 – SF/PF Ace Bailey
Why I like him – Shot prep/mechanics are special for 6-9. Makes tough shots look easy. Can be devastating off-the-ball in C&S role, coming off screens or pin-downs.
Why I am concerned – Handle is limited, and he relies on it too much. Needs to lean in to off the ball skills to excel. Must limit defensive lapses to unlock upside and impact on that end.

Tier 4:
6 – PG Jeremiah Fears
Why I like him – Walking paint touch with developed mid-range game. A gutsy tough competitor with an elite first step.
Why I am concerned – Struggles from deep & in the paint. Must get stronger and improve either 3 pt shooting, finishing or playmaking to unlock starting PG upside. Defensively he’ll have issues.

7 – PF/C Derik Queen
Why I like him – Elite skill & feel for a C. Looks like a low post C but really excels as a face up big who can leverage his handle, body control and micro movements to get to the rim despite limited athleticism. Hands are special on both sides of the ball.
Why I am concerned – Has shown disinterest in defense at stages which is non-starter for a C. Does not really have the footspeed to defend Fs. Elite hands masked a lot in college. Is it maturity or something else? Improving his jumper would potentially make him unstoppable offensively so it’s a double-edged sword. Interviews are everything with him.

8 – PG/SG Kasparas Jakucionis
Why I like him – P&R maestro with good size who sees the floor well, can create a shot and finish around the rim at a respectable level.
Why I am concerned – High IQ but makes to many ‘f-it passes’ where he forces something when nothing is there – needs to eliminate that. Needs reliable 3pt shot to provide enough spacing to leverage the rest of his game.

9 – PF/CE – Danny Wolf
Why I like him – He runs the P&R. slashes to rim, makes pinpoint passes & pulls off step back 3s at 7-0 260. Excellent rebounder too. Not Jokic but has Jokic sensibilities. Should be fun & excel in a scaled down role as an offensive hub operating from the top of the key.
Why I am concerned – TO Prone, seems handle related so that might not quite translate as it may not be tight enough. Ok defender but not a defensive stopper by any means.

10 – PF/CE – Collin Murray-Boyles
Why I like him – Switchable big that can comfortably guard multiple positions at a high level. Defensive playmaker. Offensively, is an improving slasher capable of navigating tight windows and tough angles.
Why I am concerned – Poor shooter & low volume. Must improve and become a passable shooter to unlock any offensive upside.

11 – SF/PF Noah Penda
Why I like him – Special at processing the floor and making plays everywhere defensively. Huge frame & massive defensive impact for his age in a solid foreign league. Elite hands. Has some play making skill on offense and can make the right reads. Massive defensive upside.
Why I am concerned – Must become a solid shooter to have real avenue to score. Limited athleticism makes it tough to be anything more than a shooter, connector on offense in a complimentary role.

12 – SF/PF Carter Bryant
Why I like him – Excellent IQ/feel for the game, knew his role at Arizona. Solid athlete, frame & toolsy defender. Excellent looking stroke and showed some Shaedon Sharpe level shot-creation in his HS tape.
Why I am concerned – Handle is limited, no explosion off the bounce. Good functional athlete but outside of the break or occasional lob, its not taken advantage of offensively.

13 – SG/SF Will Riley
Why I like him – Potential 3-level scorer with solid handle, shot creation ability & excellent length. High IQ player with good feel.
Why I am concerned – Weak, skinny frame, he must bulk up to handle the wing. Jumper was wildly inconsistent in terms of his release point but not totally broken.

14 – C Thomas Sorber
Why I like him – High IQ big who processes the floor extremely well on both ends. Massive wingspan. Will have a high-level defensive impact in the league.
Why I am concerned – Low post scorer whose offensive game may not translate. Will need to develop a jumper to open up offensive utility.

15 – C Khaman Maluach
Why I like him – Special athlete for his gigantic frame. Excellent dimensions. Smooth mover. Solid work ethic. Willing learner. Elite offensive rebounder & finisher at the rim, displaying great touch.
Why I am concerned – Extremely raw and modestly skilled. Shows flashes of 3pt range, turnarounds & off the ball shooting but its not really fleshed out yet. Slow reaction time hurts defensive impact as he’s a step late pretty often. This shows in the defensive impact & defensive rebounding statistics at Duke.

16 – PG Walter Clayton Jr
Why I like him – Elite and versatile shooter who knows how to create a shot. Polished and solid decision maker who can run an offense. Tries defensively.
Why I am concerned – Mature prospect who is undersized. Ceiling may be close to being maxed out. Defensively he may be a bit of negative.

17 – SG/SF Kon Knueppel
Why I like him – Excellent shooter off the catch or spot up. Solid decision maker who can be a connector offensively. Strong lower body allows him to finish, hold up on defense.
Why I am concerned – Poor athlete for 2 or 3. Not ideal size for wing. Handle is modest, limited to attacking closeouts. Shooting off the dribble is unproven. Defensively, he will be targeted.

18 – SG/SF Cedric Coward
Why I like him – Prototype measurements and shooting skill for a with solid athleticism. Can create and make his own shot. Displays solid defensive tools.
Why I am concerned – Older prospect who did not wow against lower-level competition. Handle is good enough to create a shot for himself, but I would not consider him a playmaker. Tested well athletically but doesn’t always translate on tape.

19 – PG Nolan Traore
Why I like him – Quick guard who displays solid IQ and playmaking instincts. Improving his reads & decision making in a short period of time. Gets into lane pretty consistently and can find open shooters.
Why I am concerned – Doesn’t really have a go to move to get a basket. Really shooting dependent. Below the rim so finishing is an issue.

20 – SG/SF Hugo Gonzalez
Why I like him – High level athlete and reckless slasher with solid wing size. Displays good motor and tries defensively.
Why I am concerned – Tools seem to be there but being buried on the bench for Real Madrid is probably stunting his development. Shooting consistency is a question that needs to be answered.

21 – PG/SG Ben Saraf
Why I like him – Wing sized guard who can defend 3 positions. Solid handle and can get into the paint consistently.
Why I am concerned – Decision making is headache inducing once he gets into the paint. Jumper needs work. May not have enough juice to play on the ball in the NBA but right now, he needs the ball in his hands to be effective.

Tier 5:
22 – C Hansen Yang
Note – Highly skilled offensive big that needs to get stronger and improve him mobility to handle the defensive rigors of the positions.

23 – PF Bogoljub Markovic
Note – Dead-eye shooter, rebounder with solid IQ. Defense is where the questions lie.

24 – C Maxime Raynaud
Note – Polished, face up big with 3-pt range who can attack closeouts. Will have issues defensively.

25 – C Johni Broome
Note – Skilled, high IQ big who can face up & provide enough defense to solid.

26 – SG/SF Nique Clifford
Note – Jack of all trades, master of none. Will need to make jump shots enough to hold real value in a lineup and unlock being a connective piece.

27 – PF/C Rasheer Fleming
Note – C&S & spot up 3 pt shooter & play finisher offensively while being a toolsy defender. Do not ask him to pass, dribble or make decisions. Struggles with rotations at times. I don’t love the feel.

28 – C Ryan Kalkbrenner
Note – Massive big with excellent touch and solid IQ to be effective in a drop coverage role. Slow feel

28 – PF/C Asa Newell
Note – Pure tweener. Not enough skill offensively but a 4, but not strong enough to defend 5s but will likely have too. Poor rebounder. 3 pt shot has potential, face up game may not due to limited handle, feel.

29 – SG/PG Jase Richardson
Note – Came out too early. Needed to add a right hand and work on his PG skill. Love the shot making, the flashes on ball creation and b-ball IQ but he’s in a tough position as an undersized 2.

30 – C Joan Beringer
Note – Pure rim runner. Raw and unpolished but a special athlete with the ability to switch onto smaller players. Will take time to develop.

31 – PF/C Noa Essengue
Note – Uniquely athletic big with special body control and C length. Skill is extremely limited to shot puts from 3 and meekly attacking a closeout. An absolute terror in transition and when running full speed in general (which lead to an incredible rate of generating fouls). If the game of basketball was solely about transition play, he’d go top 3 and not 3. Sadly its not and I question his hands. He is also left unguarded a bulk of the time.

32 – SF/PF Adou Thiero
Note – High tier athlete with enough handle to get to the rim. Problem is the broken jumper and overall lack of feel. Functional athleticism should allow him to carve out a role.

33 – SG/SF Egor Demin
Note – 6-9 wing masquerading as PG. High feel with excellent court vision and solid handle for a 6-9 guy but not a PG. Shot concerns me because he apparently is lights out in practice but the tougher the competition, the worse he shoots it.

Tier 6:
34 – C Amari Williams
35 – C Rocco Zikarsky
36 – PG Javon Small
37 – SG Koby Brea
38 – SG/SF Sion James
39 – SG Drake Powell
40 – SF Alex Toohey
41 – SF Liam McNeeley
42 – SG John Tonje
43 – PG Tyrese Proctor
44 – PG Mark Sears
45 – PG Kam Jones
46 – C Yanic Konan Niederhauser
47 – PF Grant Nelson
48 – SG Hunter Sallis
49 – SG Alijah Martin
50 – PF Eric Dixon
51 – SG/SF Jamir Watkins
51 – PG/SG Max Shugla
52 – SG Chaz Lanier
53 – PG Chucky Hepburn

Let it be noted that Kevin YODA'd me off Queen completely, along with reverberation from nate33 on poor defense being a fatal flaw for a C.

It's interesting to see WILDLY DIVERGENT VIEWS on Newell and Fleming, as well as Queen.

This will be interesting.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I also like Will Riley. He's Canadian.

He wouldn't be a terrible pick at #6.

I expect he will be a well-rounded SG for years to come.

[penbeast0]

Curious the wide separation between CMB and Essengue, you really have their defense on vastly different planes? Because offensively, neither is impressive though CMB and Essengue has the size that CMB doesn't.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Interesting. YODA has love for Kon, Asa Newell and Jace Richardson.

2 of the 3 I want zero part of, and Kon just isn't a fit for us at all. Nobody ever seems to post in fantasy, or in this forum, or say, PFF hit rates with their system for rankings, it's rather annoying. I have no idea if YODA is more reliable than "random with good rep for draft scouting on message board guy".

It’s not, all you have to do is go back and look at his final lists before each draft over the last few years.

I say this as someone who would rank the top 5 of this draft the exact same as YODA.

2021: Jalen Green over Cunningham, Kispert over Franz Wagner

2022: Keegan Murray at #1 over Chet Holmgren

2023: Scoot over the Thompson twins&Brandon Miller

2024: Risacher ranked as a 2nd rounder (YODA is really bad at evaluating international leagues).

YODA was on crack in 2022 when it predicted Keegan Murray over Chet Holmgren

Should have put the pipe down that year.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

It is only recently that I found out that Kevin Broom does not watch that much basketball, he is mostly a stat geek.

This is an interesting observation.

[AFM]

Watch on YouTube

Derik Queen Is 6’10” And The Next JOKER (Lottery Pick Day In the Life)





Love this kid. Super likable guy. I'll be rooting for him wherever he goes.