The Ace Bailey Thread

[fatlever]

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[powerforward1]

!

[yosemiteben]

My final pre-draft take is I'm too nervous about Ace to be confident in drafting him. He seems to have the physical tools needed to succeed, but the combination of his non-existent facilitation skills (was unaware he posted 38 assists compared to 61 TOs on the season), his extremely poor finishing skills (42% on half court rim attempts), his terrible off the dribble shooting (24% on OTD 3s), and his very shaky handle are huge red flags to me.

I'd be ok with the alpha dog mentality if he was able to back it up with efficient scoring and control of the game, but a Kobe mentality wing that (1) has a poor handle, (2) struggles to score off the dribble, and (3) struggles to finish inside gives me a lot of heartburn.

Not the end of the world if we take him, but I will be very nervous if we do.

[Snidely FC]

I'm down to take Ace if he falls to 4 he’s talented

[JMAC3]

My final pre-draft take is I'm too nervous about Ace to be confident in drafting him. He seems to have the physical tools needed to succeed, but the combination of his non-existent facilitation skills (was unaware he posted 38 assists compared to 61 TOs on the season), his extremely poor finishing skills (42% on half court rim attempts), his terrible off the dribble shooting (24% on OTD 3s), and his very shaky handle are huge red flags to me.

I'd be ok with the alpha dog mentality if he was able to back it up with efficient scoring and control of the game, but a Kobe mentality wing that (1) has a poor handle, (2) struggles to score off the dribble, and (3) struggles to finish inside gives me a lot of heartburn.

Not the end of the world if we take him, but I will be very nervous if we do.

He is going to play at 6-9 and you are worried about his passing and shooting threes off the dribble at age 18? Most guys his size are so bad they can't even reliably attempt those shots. Can Carter Bryant pass, shoot off the dribble or create his own shot at the rim?

[fatlever]

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[yosemiteben]

My final pre-draft take is I'm too nervous about Ace to be confident in drafting him. He seems to have the physical tools needed to succeed, but the combination of his non-existent facilitation skills (was unaware he posted 38 assists compared to 61 TOs on the season), his extremely poor finishing skills (42% on half court rim attempts), his terrible off the dribble shooting (24% on OTD 3s), and his very shaky handle are huge red flags to me.

I'd be ok with the alpha dog mentality if he was able to back it up with efficient scoring and control of the game, but a Kobe mentality wing that (1) has a poor handle, (2) struggles to score off the dribble, and (3) struggles to finish inside gives me a lot of heartburn.

Not the end of the world if we take him, but I will be very nervous if we do.

He is going to play at 6-9 and you are worried about his passing and shooting threes off the dribble at age 18?

I'm wondering what NBA skills he has. He's somehow extremely ball dominant despite also being terrible scoring off the dribble either at the rim or on the perimeter. If he didn't have a .5:1 ATO ratio, could finish inside, could score remotely efficiently off the dribble, had a better FT%, had a better handle, could generate rim pressure off the dribble...I just see so many issues and the elite skill I'm seeing is making highly contested, generally inadvisable shots.

Just my opinion. I don't see a complimentary set of skills that point toward NBA success, I see a lot of red flags. It gives me a ton of heartburn to read that his best path to success, at least early, is being a catch and shoot 3&D guy, which seems very much not to fit his personality.

[JMAC3]

My final pre-draft take is I'm too nervous about Ace to be confident in drafting him. He seems to have the physical tools needed to succeed, but the combination of his non-existent facilitation skills (was unaware he posted 38 assists compared to 61 TOs on the season), his extremely poor finishing skills (42% on half court rim attempts), his terrible off the dribble shooting (24% on OTD 3s), and his very shaky handle are huge red flags to me.

I'd be ok with the alpha dog mentality if he was able to back it up with efficient scoring and control of the game, but a Kobe mentality wing that (1) has a poor handle, (2) struggles to score off the dribble, and (3) struggles to finish inside gives me a lot of heartburn.

Not the end of the world if we take him, but I will be very nervous if we do.

He is going to play at 6-9 and you are worried about his passing and shooting threes off the dribble at age 18?

I'm wondering what NBA skills he has. He's somehow extremely ball dominant despite also being terrible scoring off the dribble either at the rim or on the perimeter. If he didn't have a .5:1 ATO ratio, could finish inside, could score remotely efficiently off the dribble, had a better FT%, had a better handle, could generate rim pressure off the dribble...I just see so many issues and the elite skill I'm seeing is making highly contested, generally inadvisable shots.

Just my opinion. I don't see a complimentary set of skills that point toward NBA success, I see a lot of red flags. It gives me a ton of heartburn to read that his best path to success, at least early, is being a catch and shoot 3&D guy, which seems very much not to fit his personality.

He is a really good shooter for his size, super fast release on his shot, elite midrange, elite footwork, above average handle for his size, electric scorer, good shot blocker, athletic finisher and can move his feet and stay in front of guys when engaged.

You aren't drafting him to be a 4th or 5th option that is going to compliment everyone else. You can get those guys in the teens if you are dying to have a guy that can disappear on the court and not notice him for 4 minutes of game time.

[yosemiteben]

You aren't drafting him to be a 4th or 5th option that is going to compliment everyone else. You can get those guys in the teens if you are dying to have a guy that can disappear on the court and not notice him for 4 minutes of game time.

lol

Yes, that obviously is what I was saying.

I disagree with your scouting assessment on several points, but that's cool. We don't have to agree.

[Chapelchilla]

If we pick him 4, I hope it's to trade back in at 6-8.
I don't feel confident he will be net positive in Charlotte. Talented player but all the losing at Rutgers and the weird stuff going on just worry me more then the VJ, Tre, Kon, Fears, Jake tier.
Would rather get one of them and rotation vet, additional pick.

[JMAC3]

You aren't drafting him to be a 4th or 5th option that is going to compliment everyone else. You can get those guys in the teens if you are dying to have a guy that can disappear on the court and not notice him for 4 minutes of game time.

lol

Yes, that obviously is what I was saying.

I disagree with your scouting assessment on several points, but that's cool. We don't have to agree.

I just think you are looking at him wrong. It is like saying idk if Dylan Harper would be a good pick? What skills does he bring to the table, he isn't going to be good off the ball, isn't a good shooter, isn't a good defender, isn't going to be happy playing without the ball in his hand so teams shouldn't want to draft him....

Most top 3 picks you aren't drafting them and saying how can they help us win as a role player- most of those guys are wired to score the ball first.

[JMAC3]

He is saying he doesn't want to be drafted 3rd, 4th or 5th. Why? If he wasn't a good player wouldn't he just naturally not be drafted in the top 5 selections? Why is he having to consistently say that if those teams weren't interested in drafting him. Especially Philly- it is negative all the time about them, seems like they are leaning towards taking him and everything is being floated out non-stop to try and prevent it.

There is a reason Charlotte isn't saying they love Flagg or hate Flagg, because it is irrelevant. The fact that Bailey is having to put that out should tell you a lot on it's own.

Then you also have teams consistently getting linked to wanting to trade up into the top 4 for him. That should be another sign he is a really good player and uber talented.

Instead... half the board is like hey the guy we might take at 4th. Well nobody else wants him that much, so we are better off to trade down to 7th or 8th to pick him- is that not a red flag to you?

[yosemiteben]

You aren't drafting him to be a 4th or 5th option that is going to compliment everyone else. You can get those guys in the teens if you are dying to have a guy that can disappear on the court and not notice him for 4 minutes of game time.

lol

Yes, that obviously is what I was saying.

I disagree with your scouting assessment on several points, but that's cool. We don't have to agree.

I just think you are looking at him wrong. It is like saying idk if Dylan Harper would be a good pick? What skills does he bring to the table, he isn't going to be good off the ball, isn't a good shooter, isn't a good defender, isn't going to be happy playing without the ball in his hand so teams shouldn't want to draft him....

Most top 3 picks you aren't drafting them and saying how can they help us win as a role player- most of those guys are wired to score the ball first.

Dylan Harper is an excellent example. He has elite ball skills AND elite finishing skills in the paint, so at least he has complimentary elite skills.

Ace is a guy who wants to dominate the ball but IMO doesn't have either the ball skills, OTD shooting skills, or finishing skills to compliment that desire. That's extremely worrisome to me.

[JMAC3]

lol

Yes, that obviously is what I was saying.

I disagree with your scouting assessment on several points, but that's cool. We don't have to agree.

I just think you are looking at him wrong. It is like saying idk if Dylan Harper would be a good pick? What skills does he bring to the table, he isn't going to be good off the ball, isn't a good shooter, isn't a good defender, isn't going to be happy playing without the ball in his hand so teams shouldn't want to draft him....

Most top 3 picks you aren't drafting them and saying how can they help us win as a role player- most of those guys are wired to score the ball first.

Dylan Harper is an excellent example. He has elite ball skills AND elite finishing skills in the paint, so at least he has complimentary elite skills.

Ace is a guy who wants to dominate the ball but IMO doesn't have either the ball skills, OTD shooting skills, or finishing skills to compliment that desire. That's extremely worrisome to me.

I have never seen a point guard who is a good finisher be called a complimentary skill.

[yosemiteben]

I just think you are looking at him wrong. It is like saying idk if Dylan Harper would be a good pick? What skills does he bring to the table, he isn't going to be good off the ball, isn't a good shooter, isn't a good defender, isn't going to be happy playing without the ball in his hand so teams shouldn't want to draft him....

Most top 3 picks you aren't drafting them and saying how can they help us win as a role player- most of those guys are wired to score the ball first.

Dylan Harper is an excellent example. He has elite ball skills AND elite finishing skills in the paint, so at least he has complimentary elite skills.

Ace is a guy who wants to dominate the ball but IMO doesn't have either the ball skills, OTD shooting skills, or finishing skills to compliment that desire. That's extremely worrisome to me.

I have never seen a point guard who is a good finisher be called a complimentary skill.

I don't understand this sentence. I said he has two elite skills that are complimentary to each other.

[fatlever]

The concern comes from 2 very real places

1. The analytics on him are rough in a lot of key areas. It's why so many analytical based rankings have him outside the top 5
2. The irrational confidence will either be a huge bonus or a nightmare
3. How much distraction will his circle be over his rookie deal


Then on the other hand you have the guys saying... just look at him play, look at his size, shooting, athleticism, confidence. He looks the part of a top 3 pick.


The truth is probably in the middle. I dunno. He's a fascinating prospect good and bad and the weird.


For me it's just style of play. Nothing more, nothing less. Not complicated. I just typically don't enjoy watching players with his playstyle. He's like oubre on steroids. He might be a good player for us, but I suspect I'll not really enjoy watching him play.

If we take him at 4 and keep him so be it. I'll root hard for him to be awesome.

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[JMAC3]

Dylan Harper is an excellent example. He has elite ball skills AND elite finishing skills in the paint, so at least he has complimentary elite skills.

Ace is a guy who wants to dominate the ball but IMO doesn't have either the ball skills, OTD shooting skills, or finishing skills to compliment that desire. That's extremely worrisome to me.

I have never seen a point guard who is a good finisher be called a complimentary skill.

I don't understand this sentence. I said he has two elite skills that are complimentary to each other.

I just will be very surprised if the narrative around Harper tonight when drafted is talking about what a good complimentary player he is, but it is whatever seems like you are trying to spin this to something else now.

[yosemiteben]

I have never seen a point guard who is a good finisher be called a complimentary skill.

I don't understand this sentence. I said he has two elite skills that are complimentary to each other.

I just will be very surprised if the narrative around Harper tonight when drafted is talking about what a good complimentary player he is, but it is whatever seems like you are trying to spin this to something else now.

I'm not saying he's a complimentary player. I said he has two discrete elite skills that compliment each other. That's not calling him a complimentary player.

I'm not spinning anything.

[KembaWalker]

complementary

[yosemiteben]

His skills say nice things about each other