2025 Draft Thread - Part 3

[Dat2U]

Look, I would have loved Ace and I'd like to hear if or what we offered for him. Unless they think Tre could be the next Ray Allen and they were smokescreening us. WFT knows.

That's a question I have as well. Many of us here wanted Bailey to fall to 6 and for the Zards to draft him. But is that who the Zards FO wanted? Would they have still drafted Tre even if Ace was available?

I would have selected Tre all along because of his feel, passing and maturity but I also would have been pleased with Bailey and think he would have fit perfectly here as well.

[Ed Wood]

I have never really escaped an unreasoned suspicion of players who fit the "I was 5'9" this time last year" archetype. It always conjures Austin Daye into my mind, which is not the most positive association or something I enjoy repeatedly recalling. That's no real reason to have any particular opinion of Riley, however, though probably not much less coherent than most of my opinions or realistically most of the impressions even invested fans have of draft prospects.

Likely the biggest evolution in my draft understanding this year is achieving true courage in my convictions that the lottery process is ultimately not a positive force for the league. Also the big perceived drop on Jakucionas ultimately to Miami (other than being a product of lag in the outsider coverage of the draft and actual league opinion about him) makes me wonder if the vibes about his injury and recovery were worse than advertised.

[DCZards]

He's not quick or fast.... We don't have anybody beyond CJ or AJ who can actually drive to the rim with any consistency.... We don't have any defensive C.... Sarr is a 4 until he gets stronger....

Such a let down... Having skill with blah athleticism is not going to win us any titles... I'll wait and see but I'm starting to get underwhelmed by picking all these projects who aren't elite at anything.....

I'd rather have traded 18 to move up and get Ace....

I suggest you check out the video of Riley posted on this page. A lot of the highlights are of him getting to the rim off the dribble.

The Big Ten is not the NBA.....

...the SEC, ACC, etc. are also not the NBA. So I guess we should question the film we see on every draftee.

[TGW]

This board's engagement goes thru the roof during draft time. But come January, you're going to have 2 page game threads because no one gives a flying rats about this team.

You're going to have two-page game threads because most of us avoid game threads and the incessant bitchin' and moanin' of the 3-4 posters on it.

that's cap. use the ignore feature if you're so bothered and butthurt by people calling out how trash this franchise is.

[Ed Wood]

If you think Bailey was really a significantly more valuable commodity as a prospect than Johnson given that they're very vaguely similar players in terms of the services you're hoping they render and that Utah's roster isn't good enough to care about fit any more than Washington ought to I don't know what explanation you can imagine for being able to trade to get him without overpaying and probably significantly other than that you're a huge brain on legs and Utah's **** dumb.

[Ed Wood]

I think you underestimate me - I am more than capable of enjoying neither Wizards games in January nor many of the posts they inspire.

[Despy]

New wizards record: only took 22 minutes after the draft ends to proclaim our picks now as 0/7.

I'd say maybe let them play a game first, but they aren't even back to their hotel rooms yet.

I said they were 0/5 a month ago, and I had Johnson on my DO NOT DRAFT list two weeks ago, so how did you not think I wasn't going to shxt on tonight bro?

And they've played games...and they suck fat dongs. But like I said in the Dawkins thread, the actual NBA season for the Gizzards is actually the offseason. Filler in between the draft and free agency. This board's engagement goes thru the roof during draft time. But come January, you're going to have 2 page game threads because no one gives a flying rats about this team. We are here because we like arguing over draft picks, making fake trade ideas that never happen, and general banter. But as far as this team goes...there's nothing to talk about. They suck. And they're going to suck with Dawkins because Dawkins isn't the answer. Sorry to burst your bubble my man, but it is what it is.

Man I love hearing about how all our players suck the front office sucks and the owner sucks. Also dont forget the occasional (i mean incessant whining about Adjiva) Who wouldn't want to post here!?

[Benjammin]

Use some of those seconds and move up to get Fleming at least.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

[The Consiglieri]

Look, I would have loved Ace and I'd like to hear if or what we offered for him. Unless they think Tre could be the next Ray Allen and they were smokescreening us. WFT knows.

That's a question I have as well. Many of us here wanted Bailey to fall to 6 and for the Zards to draft him. But is that who the Zards FO wanted? Would they have still drafted Tre even if Ace was available?

Yep, I get why the Sixers didn't move down. VJ is VJ, the smart pick there unless they want to roll the dice with Ace, a trade down for them never really made sense, but why not trade up with Charlotte. Who's taking Kon there at 5? Would the Jazz really have taken him, and honestly, now that we see we got Riley, it's impossible for me to believe that giving up freaking Riley was too stiff a cost to move up for Bailey. It would be one thing if one of the study bigs made it that far down but none did, I definitely would have traded 6 and 18 to get VJ or Bailey at this point. To be fair, I liked the trade down from 18, I just don't really like who they took at 21 that much (I had him as a target via trade up from 40 a few days ago, the last of my justifiable trade up targets lol, literally the last one, right after Penda and Clayton, on my board of guys that were worth the 40th or higher. So yeah, I like the value of multiple 2nds, and the 21, over 18, but once you factor in who we took, the shine is off that apple).

But yeah, what did they really think? I think they got cute and decided to play chicken with Philly, Charlotte and Utah, and lost, big time, just like they did on the final regular season game of the season in every way that actually mattered, and in May in the lottery, like always.

[Despy]

I like how "they havent found a franchise player in 2 drafts" is an opinion that is taken seriously here.

[The Consiglieri]

Not quite sure what you're getting at. I have no problem with what the FO is doing. They are amassing as much capital as humanly possible to provide ammo to spray drafts for upside talents, and versatile assets that can be valuable for the team or in trade. I like at this point everything they've done beyond the Deni trade, and failing to trade Kuzma in early '24 (although after what we saw a few months ago, maybe we win 40 games without Kuzma lol, he was the tank commander of tank commanders, a win percentage a touch above 19% with him, and right around 33% after we unloaded him, ------.

I'm not surprised we have no franchise players. We missed on Wemby by one lotto ball in '23, the '24 class had no franchise players remotely easily identifiable (worst top end of a class since possibly 2000), and we got totally prison ----ed in this lottery, and landed just as I warned, 1 slot outside the "dumb --- makes a mistake ahead of you, and gifts the 4 or 5 slot a star" zone.

So, I don't know how they'd have a franchise guy. They did the next best thing, repeatedly drafting the youngest guys with large ceilings, and lots of projectable possibilities, kind of the polar opposite of the EG and Sheppard approaches....it hasn't worked, for now, but honestly, beyond blind luck, nobody else would have the last 3 drafts with those selections anyway. We've been snake bit, for decades, and we still are, if nothing else at least they are filling every last drawer and cupboard with piles of darts to throw at the distant board and pray for a bulleye in future classes, at least that.

[The Consiglieri]

If you guys haven't read theathletic on Tre, definitely do so, it's a circle journey that leaves you just as confounded as you might have been from the start. I'm in "operation talk myself into Tre Johnson" mode. If nothing else, I am trying to keep sticky the one caveat I kept posting in my rants: "if he worked on those two key weaknesses he has had (aside game, defense) there's a lot there to like and a ---- ton of potential," but like one of the guys in the athletic quoted on him, I fear he's a guy who just is what he is, and is gonna stay that way. But why can't he change? He could....I'm just skeptical, I've seen this before and it so rarely ever surprises you, but I'm hoping to be surprised.

Some interesting last tidbits:
Rivals Recruiting Rankings in '24: He was ranked #4 and fell to #5 with VJ jumping ahead of him at the end of the race. Not bad, #4 before that last bit, only behind Flagg, Ace, and Harper, until VJ edged ahead of him at the end by a nose.

247 sports had him ranked 5th, and for them he slipped to 6th in their final ranking of the recruits of the '24 class. Ahead of him: Flagg, Ace, Harper, Maluach, and VJ at 5, again, hopping ahead of him at the end.

ESPN100 had him 5th, behind Flagg, Bailey, VJ and Harper.

Generally speaking, it really does seem like Tre has been considered the 4th-6th best player of the 2005's and 2006's and 2007's (2024 HS Graduates). So, still waiting and hoping and praying.....We'll see, the ship has sailed on everything related to the '24-'25 NBA season other than our 2nd rounder.

FTR, I think it would be great to have a pinned thread with all of our future draft picks through 2030, at this point its murderously difficult trying to figure out just how many 1sts, 2nds and swaps we have between 2026 and 2032 or whatever.

[The Consiglieri]

Kon Knueppel is a good example of where advanced stats can steer you wrong. Aint no way this dude gonna be anything more than a mercenary three point bench wing.

King Kon seems like the advanced stat geeks dream. A heavy footed high IQ'er who makes all the right plays, especially the ones he doesn't try to make. Bro has literally been the perfect college role player. I dont understand how that translated to top 3-5 value among spreadsheet FC.

This is not even the case. Stat nerds aren’t nearly as high on Knueppel as actual professional draft analysts:

Read on Twitter

Interesting to note how oddly separated the metrics geeks are vs the scouts on Tre: analytics guys if you toss out the worst and highest ranking, have Tre ranked about 13th, scouts if you toss out Hollinger, and the highest ranking, have Tre 5th. That's some pretty huge separation.

[9 and 20]

Hoping for the best for these two guys. No idea if they'll be any good. Was excited about the possibility of Ace and a bit let down that we miss out on him. Especially kind of weird that we ended up trading 18 to Utah for 21 and still couldn't work out a 6 plus something for 5 trade.

At the same time, how hilarious is Ace Bailey going to be in Utah. Jazz did some some shameless tanking the whole year and they land a guy who from day 1, minute 1, is going to be begging them to trade him. Pretty sure the Jazz are going to be a disaster next year, in a flaming train wreck kind of way (and not the measured, on-purpose disaster that we will be).

[Hibachi_0]

Not thrilled about the draft outcome (with 6&21 would have just picked Maluach and Hugo). Will have to re-dive into Riley, it wasn't a 'do not draft' for me but wasn't what I would have picked either. In Johnson's case, I was pretty locked in Maluach and wouldn't have loved anything else (besides Ace), but I'm really concerned about his ability to get to the basket.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Riley is going to be even better than Johnson.

Tre will be a very good sixth-man, at worst.

Will Riley is an absolute stud.

[gambitx777]

Maxime Raynaud is available and French lol just saying lol.

But will likely be gone by 43. Broome is an option some other big boys left too.

Sent from my SM-S926U1 using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Read on Twitter

Front office been reading my tweets.

6. Washington Wizards

Tre Johnson | 6-5 guard | 19 years old | Texas

Vecenie’s ranking: 5

I’m a believer in Johnson’s game and demeanor. I respect the way he goes about his craft and think he’s going to keep getting better as he ages. Ultimately, two things will be key to his reaching his upside. First, he’s going to have to get stronger. He needs to be able to displace players on his drives a bit more effectively. He’s not afraid of contact. The good news there is he’s only 19 and a worker. He will get stronger. The second point will simply be fit. It would behoove him to land in a situation that allows him to streamline his offensive game early into being more of a high-level floor spacer and movement shooter who attacks off closeouts as opposed to being tasked with creating a significant amount of his team’s offense. Hopefully, that would allow him to get minutes on the court early, then continue to flow into the rest of his game off the bounce, where he can use the threat of his shot to expand his game as he gets older and stronger.

The median/downside outcome of Johnson reminds me of a bigger version of Malik Beasley, and I don’t mean that as a negative. Beasley has averaged about 14 points per game while shooting 39 percent from 3 on seriously high volume over the last five years and is going to earn nearly nine figures by the time it’s done. It’s just hard for shooters like Johnson to fail much more than that in today’s NBA. If Johnson can be a better, bigger version of that, who doesn’t need to be hidden defensively as often and can make better decisions consistently, he’s a definite NBA starter. These are all achievable outcomes, too. But there are some outcomes where he develops into a 25-point-per-game guy and potentially reaches the All-Star game.

Hollinger’s analysis: One rumor making the rounds is that the Ace Bailey non-workout controversy was all part of a plan to ensure he landed in Washington. Welp. I wasn’t as high on Johnson as others, but the Wizards need help across the board and he was the best player available on several public draft boards. Washington now has a surfeit of shooting guards with C.J. McCollum, Marcus Smart and Bub Carrington, but trades will likely have that worked out that by midseason.

Grades so far CBS Sports
A for Tre; C+ for Riley
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2025-nba-draft-grades-live-pick-by-pick-analysis-updates-draft-order-for-all-30-round-1-selections/

SI.com
B- for Tre; B+ for Riley
https://www.si.com/nba/nba-draft-first-round-grades-every-selection-from-cooper-flagg-to-no-30

Good analysis from Vecenie/Hollinger
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6451301/2025/06/25/nba-draft-grades-analysis-2025-jvecenie-hollinger/

Yahoo (KOC)
A for Tre; C+ for Riley
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/article/2025-nba-draft-grades-first-round-pick-by-pick-analysis--mavs-get-a-for-cooper-flagg-but-ace-bailey-to-utah-005203090.html

Washington straight up got an A.

Riley might end better than Johnson.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Outstanding draft. I think you guys clearly were hoping to get a #1 scorer and you got two of them! Riley was 10th on my Big Board, slightly behind Ace and imo if you were hoping for Ace but disappointed you didn't get him you should be happy that you got Riley. Word is, he's been cooking guys during workouts and has put on some solid muscle. I may be delusional but there's some Tatum to his game and I honestly think with some refinement and if he gets stronger he might be special.

You've got the 10th pick in the 2nd round. There's still plenty of talent still on the board.

If you want a stretch 4 there's Fleming and Markovic
If you want a center there's Kalkbrenner and Raynaud
If you want wing depth there's Thiero, Watkins, Pate, James and Penda
If you want guard depth there's Proctor, Jones, and Nembhard

good news is if you keep the pick you're guaranteed to get one of them and every single one is worth drafting and would be a good addition to the roster.

[FarBeyondDriven]

I got to say, you guys are as miserable and pessimistic as we are except you're 7 deep and counting with 19-21 y/o kids with starter potential. I don't know if so many of you are horrible talent evaluators or conditioned to disappointment so crap on the young guys as a form of self preservation or defense mechanism but snap out of it. You have needed to do this for decades and it's finally happening. Let the cream rise to the top. One more tank year and with how strong next year's class is you're almost guaranteed to get that "engine" you feel you need