Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Jon Horst the Wizard

[MickeyDavis]

Winning one title is really really hard. And we did it. I'm not going to rip Horst for not winning another one when we've had Middleton, Giannis, Giannis and Dame go down since then. Obviously there's no way to know how the last few years would have ended had we been healthy (we would have had a GREAT shot at B2B with Middleton available).

Too bad Horst didn't know in advance who would get injured each year.

Come on Horst, DO SOMETHING. If you read this board it's super easy to make moves, never mind that other teams have to agree to said moves. Just use the trade machine and you're done. Just sign this guy and that guy. Horst isn't perfect, he's not even great. But, as was said earlier in this thread, he got us a championship AND kept Giannis here for 13 years.

It seems many of you would easily give up the championship we have so we'd have a better shot at a championship in the future. That's crazy

[Ron Swanson]

Will always give credit for Horst hiring the right coach, being aggressive in acquiring established talent, and making the right moves to build a championship contender around Giannis throughout the Bud years. 2018-2023 was a rousing success on all fronts no matter how much people wanna cry about how we should have been some sort of Warriors level "dynasty". But ever since the Dame trade, this roster has required a different approach and different types of players around those two, and he's absolutely failed in adapting to that reality.

Now with the Dame injury, it's exposing just how badly his lack of vision and the overall roster construction has been. If it's not an obvious, available and already established upgrade that he pays full market cost for (Bledsoe, Mirotic, Jrue, PJ, Grayson, Crowder), he flounders in his attempts to leverage assets into good players. Wasting assets to dump Khris, still trotting out a Brook/Bobby complimentary frontcourt 4-years after the title, still searching (and failing) for that elusive "PJ Tucker replacement". Flipping Jrue was basically the only time he's maximized a player asset in the last half decade (Brogdon). All his other moves have been overpays or "too little too late" type stuff on the margins. Never proactive, always reactionary.

[EasyE31]

Celtics get: Pat, Livingston, 2028 1st round secondary swap
Bucks get: Hauser, Niang, 32

Saves the Celtics almost >$7m and brings in a future asset
Bucks get 2 plus shooters to put around Giannis and get a shot at their preferred guy left on the board tonight

[German Athens]

I think about that failed Bogdan trade all the time. Butterfly effect and all, and maybe we don’t win in ‘21 because of that, but if everything played out the same, I think he would have helped a ton in ‘22.

[emunney]

Come on Horat

[engelmartin]

Horst is working the phones trying to get us a player like BIYOMBO or LANDALE

[German Athens]

Isaiah Jackson would be a player I l’d pursue. He’s an RFA, but Indy is notoriously cheap, and they will be focused on re-signing Turner. Maybe they would be fine with letting him go.

I think Jackson would be a much better player than Sims in the role he had with us this year.

[soxperry]

I haven't seen it discussed here but if we stay below the first apron, and I assume we will to make full use of the mid-level exception, then we can sign any buyout free agent we want to regardless of how much money they made before being waived.

Middleton could theoretically come back as long as it's at least a year after the initial trade

[SirChurros]

I haven't seen it discussed here but if we stay below the first apron, and I assume we will to make full use of the mid-level exception, then we can sign any buyout free agent we want to regardless of how much money they made before being waived.

Middleton could theoretically come back as long as it's at least a year after the initial trade

But why? Nostalgia?

[ReddRum]

The worst move Horst made by far is Dame. It’s not even close and I don’t blame him for doing it but it’s been a pretty much worse case scenario at this point

Yeah I agree and it really sucks. I think with Dame we literally got him right when he started to go downhill ever so slightly and his lack of defense has hurt us much more than Horst thought it could. With that being said, losing your 2nd best player for a full year pretty much ruins any teams season and losing him to an Achilles of all injuries is extremely unlucky, especially happening so late in the season, which was the worst possible time. As others have said its time to think outside the box and take some risks. We need to do everything possible to just keep improving the team until Dame gets back / we can get him off the books b/c those are the things that will keep Giannis happy. It seems obvious but my point is don't make a deal just to make a deal, it needs to move the needle. I personally think getting a guy like Giddey, Reaves, or even Russell would be a perfect start to upgrade the PG / G position. I know Russell may not be a popular choice but we gotta start taking some swings ASAP.

[Ron Swanson]

I'll posit one thing with all these roster discussions though. We have absolutely no clue what "makes Giannis happy" and we need to stop acting like we do. This entire coaching mess that we're in is pretty much entirely due to this organization's monumentally stupid mindset that the priority needs to be on a guy they think Giannis will respect instead of actually hiring, you know, a good basketball coach. If the focus was always entirely on putting the team/roster in the best position for sustained success, maybe things would be different right now.

[German Athens]

I wonder if Horst would move Kuzma and Pat for Ayton? I could see that being Horst’s swing this year. He likes prominent names.

[paulpressey25]

I wonder if Horst would move Kuzma and Pat for Ayton? I could see that being Horst’s swing this year. He likes prominent names.

I’d do that deal fast but I don’t think Portland does. Ayton actually started to fit in last year.

[LUKE23]

The Dame move didn't work out, but I still get the trade in theory. You are pairing the best paint scorer in years with a player who is only rivaled by Curry for shooting range. In an ideal world, that creates a near unstoppable offense. It didn't, and the defensive problems starting Dame (and others) caused was too much to overcome.

I have a much bigger issue with just the overall drafting and wasting picks and young assets nearly across the board since he was hired. DDV for 78-year-old Ibaka was a far worse move than Dame, for example.

[Bernman]

Read on Twitter

I think the sub-text here, given it's ESPN, is you better really do something or Giannis is gone.

Not sure what moving $ is in this context. Waiving Chris Livingston, trading Ajax into space? Don't have a lot of options. BTW, when we get rid of one of these fringe guys soon, it's going to be awkward with them having gone to Greece to train.

[soxperry]

Just ran into Bobby Portis irl. I live right next to fiserv and he was on an elevator. Make of that what you will.

[Bernman]

Just ran into Bobby Portis irl. I live right next to fiserv and he was on an elevator. Make of that what you will.

We could make more of it if you shared any of what you discussed.

[engelmartin]

I don’t even understand what “moving money around” is supposed to mean. Is it three card monte?

Realistically the only thing it could mean is buying a second rounder?

[Ruben Quevedo]

The worst move Horst made by far is Dame. It’s not even close and I don’t blame him for doing it but it’s been a pretty much worse case scenario at this point

Yeah I agree and it really sucks. I think with Dame we literally got him right when he started to go downhill ever so slightly and his lack of defense has hurt us much more than Horst thought it could. With that being said, losing your 2nd best player for a full year pretty much ruins any teams season and losing him to an Achilles of all injuries is extremely unlucky, especially happening so late in the season, which was the worst possible time. As others have said its time to think outside the box and take some risks. We need to do everything possible to just keep improving the team until Dame gets back / we can get him off the books b/c those are the things that will keep Giannis happy. It seems obvious but my point is don't make a deal just to make a deal, it needs to move the needle. I personally think getting a guy like Giddey, Reaves, or even Russell would be a perfect start to upgrade the PG / G position. I know Russell may not be a popular choice but we gotta start taking some swings ASAP.

I would blame the coaching and Dame and Giannis themselves before I blame Horst for getting Dame. In a vacuum Dame has been fine. The problem is he and Giannis have not elevated each other's games, and the offense especially as a whole has not been creative enough to make use of their talents. Dame really has never looked comfortable doing anything other than high pick and roll, but Giannis doesn't want to set screens and dive all game. I thought they would be a perfect partnership, but at this point I have to say they are just a bad pairing.

[German Athens]

Just ran into Bobby Portis irl. I live right next to fiserv and he was on an elevator. Make of that what you will.

Things are looking up