Coby's Next Contract

[wolffy]

Cobys been pretty professional about improving himself in the off season. Hopefully he works on his defense. If he can guard 2s at an average level, it would go a long way.

[Dez]

Cobys been pretty professional about improving himself in the off season. Hopefully he works on his defense. If he can guard 2s at an average level, it would go a long way.

It would go a long way but he's also an even longer way from being anywhere close to being able to do that.

[Ccwatercraft]

Cobys been pretty professional about improving himself in the off season. Hopefully he works on his defense. If he can guard 2s at an average level, it would go a long way.

It would go a long way but he's also an even longer way from being anywhere close to being able to do that.

It's interesting that we really don't have any defensive players yet we have a pretty good defense. Imho a bigger issue is rim protection over cobys issues. We've been lacking that for years

[MrSparkle]

Cobys been pretty professional about improving himself in the off season. Hopefully he works on his defense. If he can guard 2s at an average level, it would go a long way.

It would go a long way but he's also an even longer way from being anywhere close to being able to do that.

It's interesting that we really don't have any defensive players yet we have a pretty good defense. Imho a bigger issue is rim protection over cobys issues. We've been lacking that for years

Yeah. Coby has his moments where he looks more composed as a defender, and if he’s on guards, he doesn’t give up too much size. Giddey can rebound and read plays, and gives up zero size. So those two aren’t so bad. Matas is big impact imo- production didn’t make him positive yet, but you could tell his size contests and alters shots.

Coby is an asset until his offensive production plummets - game score of 1.8 against Miami. Yikes. Sounds right for 25% FG and 7 TOs. Could care less if his guy scores on him- his job is to make a lot of shots. My issue isn’t with him as a defender, as much as a #1 scorer. Bit of a reach. Was counting on another big jump, but it only came for 2 months.

Still think you address C with a low asset. I would consider #12 (unfortunately this year’s pick) just that, although we have no reason to draft “need” right now. Must go BPA.

But yes; these Lebron-Luka Lakers look so vulnerable, despite the talent. The Allens and Zubacs were given away for peanuts before finding long tenures. I like OKC’s Hartenstein pickup (and when Knicks got him, first time around). Collins looked like that guy, until he didn’t.

[WindyCityBorn]

It would go a long way but he's also an even longer way from being anywhere close to being able to do that.

It's interesting that we really don't have any defensive players yet we have a pretty good defense. Imho a bigger issue is rim protection over cobys issues. We've been lacking that for years

Yeah. Coby has his moments where he looks more composed as a defender, and if he’s on guards, he doesn’t give up too much size. Giddey can rebound and read plays, and gives up zero size. So those two aren’t so bad. Matas is big impact imo- production didn’t make him positive yet, but you could tell his size contests and alters shots.

Coby is an asset until his offensive production plummets - game score of 1.8 against Miami. Yikes. Sounds right for 25% FG and 7 TOs. Could care less if his guy scores on him- his job is to make a lot of shots. My issue isn’t with him as a defender, as much as a #1 scorer. Bit of a reach. Was counting on another big jump, but it only came for 2 months.

Still think you address C with a low asset. I would consider #12 (unfortunately this year’s pick) just that, although we have no reason to draft “need” right now. Must go BPA.

But yes; these Lebron-Luka Lakers look so vulnerable, despite the talent. The Allens and Zubacs were given away for peanuts before finding long tenures. I like OKC’s Hartenstein pickup (and when Knicks got him, first time around). Collins looked like that guy, until he didn’t.

Coby will NEVER be a #1 scorer. He looks a great #3 or passable #2 if he is playing with a legit #1 all-time great.

[MrSparkle]

It's interesting that we really don't have any defensive players yet we have a pretty good defense. Imho a bigger issue is rim protection over cobys issues. We've been lacking that for years

Yeah. Coby has his moments where he looks more composed as a defender, and if he’s on guards, he doesn’t give up too much size. Giddey can rebound and read plays, and gives up zero size. So those two aren’t so bad. Matas is big impact imo- production didn’t make him positive yet, but you could tell his size contests and alters shots.

Coby is an asset until his offensive production plummets - game score of 1.8 against Miami. Yikes. Sounds right for 25% FG and 7 TOs. Could care less if his guy scores on him- his job is to make a lot of shots. My issue isn’t with him as a defender, as much as a #1 scorer. Bit of a reach. Was counting on another big jump, but it only came for 2 months.

Still think you address C with a low asset. I would consider #12 (unfortunately this year’s pick) just that, although we have no reason to draft “need” right now. Must go BPA.

But yes; these Lebron-Luka Lakers look so vulnerable, despite the talent. The Allens and Zubacs were given away for peanuts before finding long tenures. I like OKC’s Hartenstein pickup (and when Knicks got him, first time around). Collins looked like that guy, until he didn’t.

Coby will NEVER be a #1 scorer. He looks a great #3 or passable #2 if he is playing with a legit #1 all-time great.

Well, he was our #1 scorer for 2 months. I’m not saying he should be our #1 option. He’s clearly incapable of that job.

The 1-2-3 option talk gets slippery. If your #1 is prime Lebron, you’re grabbing the best 2nd/3rd options you can find. Not like your options open up: they keep getting worse. That’s why you cement your #1 first.

I don’t know if there’s any point in categorizing beyond a 1st option. Either you can handle a load of defensive attention and make plays, or you can’t. I never say never; Jalen Brunson became a big deal after he turned 25. But yeah, Coby doesn’t show that promise. My biggest issue with Coby is his horrendous floor. There’s no in-between. Either he lights it up or he sucks. That’s a tough player to pay anything more than the MLE, unless your team is already stacked. If we had prime Giannis and Middleton and no picks, then yeah- you gladly pay Coby $20M-whatever and roll with him.

But beyond this… to the basic point, yes, a rim protector would help Coby and Giddey look better. To what extent? I don’t know. 1 more season to find out, with Coby. Would it completely shock you if he turned into a 20 PER fringe star (25/5/5 Lavine-ish numbers on a .450 team)?

[WindyCityBorn]

Yeah. Coby has his moments where he looks more composed as a defender, and if he’s on guards, he doesn’t give up too much size. Giddey can rebound and read plays, and gives up zero size. So those two aren’t so bad. Matas is big impact imo- production didn’t make him positive yet, but you could tell his size contests and alters shots.

Coby is an asset until his offensive production plummets - game score of 1.8 against Miami. Yikes. Sounds right for 25% FG and 7 TOs. Could care less if his guy scores on him- his job is to make a lot of shots. My issue isn’t with him as a defender, as much as a #1 scorer. Bit of a reach. Was counting on another big jump, but it only came for 2 months.

Still think you address C with a low asset. I would consider #12 (unfortunately this year’s pick) just that, although we have no reason to draft “need” right now. Must go BPA.

But yes; these Lebron-Luka Lakers look so vulnerable, despite the talent. The Allens and Zubacs were given away for peanuts before finding long tenures. I like OKC’s Hartenstein pickup (and when Knicks got him, first time around). Collins looked like that guy, until he didn’t.

Coby will NEVER be a #1 scorer. He looks a great #3 or passable #2 if he is playing with a legit #1 all-time great.

Well, he was our #1 scorer for 2 months. I’m not saying he should be our #1 option. He’s clearly incapable of that job.

The 1-2-3 option talk gets slippery. If your #1 is prime Lebron, you’re grabbing the best 2nd/3rd options you can find. Not like your options open up: they keep getting worse. That’s why you cement your #1 first.

I don’t know if there’s any point in categorizing beyond a 1st option. Either you can handle a load of defensive attention and make plays, or you can’t. I never say never; Jalen Brunson became a big deal after he turned 25. But yeah, Coby doesn’t show that promise. My biggest issue with Coby is his horrendous floor. There’s no in-between. Either he lights it up or he sucks. That’s a tough player to pay anything more than the MLE, unless your team is already stacked.

I know he is our #1 option right now. What I’m saying is I really hope they don’t make mistake of trying to build a contending team around the notion of him being a #1. Our front office is definitely bad enough to actually try that.

[MrSparkle]

Coby will NEVER be a #1 scorer. He looks a great #3 or passable #2 if he is playing with a legit #1 all-time great.

Well, he was our #1 scorer for 2 months. I’m not saying he should be our #1 option. He’s clearly incapable of that job.

The 1-2-3 option talk gets slippery. If your #1 is prime Lebron, you’re grabbing the best 2nd/3rd options you can find. Not like your options open up: they keep getting worse. That’s why you cement your #1 first.

I don’t know if there’s any point in categorizing beyond a 1st option. Either you can handle a load of defensive attention and make plays, or you can’t. I never say never; Jalen Brunson became a big deal after he turned 25. But yeah, Coby doesn’t show that promise. My biggest issue with Coby is his horrendous floor. There’s no in-between. Either he lights it up or he sucks. That’s a tough player to pay anything more than the MLE, unless your team is already stacked.

I know he is our #1 option right now. What I’m saying is I really hope they don’t make mistake of trying to build a contending team around the notion of him being a #1. Our front office is definitely bad enough to actually try that.

Yep- they are.

Their philosophy is buying low (Demar/Lonzo/Giddey.. arguable we bought high) while developing. I don’t find their strategy bonkers, I’m mostly a fan of this approach (if you can’t find the Presti/Ainge god trades). Makes me think of Toronto, Indiana, or OKC before the PG/Shai trade (yes; they were competitive with no chance of a title).

Problem is AK’s draft picks’ ceilings look like role-players, and all the trades look bad in hindsight. All the non-trades (Zach before/during extension) look bad too. Dunno what Zach’s peak return could’ve been, but maybe that should’ve been a priority before the $215M.

So strategy isn’t the issue as much as player evaluation, if you ask me. The Lonzo/Caruso pickups were a heist, and his injury hurts the overall picture, but the Lauri/Vuc/Patrick/Zach decisions/non-decisions are a different story.

We’ll see with Matas. I have to be honest: despite my optimism, his numbers don’t support a top-30 player trajectory. But again, I see a narrow chance something brews. The new team is more enjoyable than the previous iteration, if only because we can actually play system offense.

Does seem like a series of miracles need to happen for contention by 2028, though.

[MGB8]

Time to bump this, given that the draft has not provided anyone who might compete with Coby for the role of primary scorer.

When I was looking at Huerter to evaluate what impact he has on the roster, I went to 82games because I really like and trust their raw on/off stats. These are unregressed, not accounting for substitution or otherwise, but I find them very helpful.

Unfortunately, what I see for last year for Coby is concerning. Both offense and defense improved when he was off the court. Worse, while team offensive efficiency (eFG) was only a tiny reduction with him on (basically net neutral), eFG allowed decreased by almost 3% when he went off the Court.

LaVine was a small net positive defender (and larger net positive on offense), so LaVine/Coby substitution doesn’t explain much here. But it is a red flag. Maybe there are splits out there that show something more nuanced that would address, related to role or otherwise.

[MGB8]

Time to bump this, given that the draft has not provided anyone who might compete with Coby for the role of primary scorer.

When I was looking at Huerter to evaluate what impact he has on the roster, I went to 82games because I really like and trust their raw on/off stats. These are unregressed, not accounting for substitution or otherwise, but I find them very helpful.

Unfortunately, what I see for last year for Coby is concerning. Both offense and defense improved when he was off the court. Worse, while team offensive efficiency (eFG) was only a tiny reduction with him on (basically net neutral), eFG allowed decreased by almost 3% when he went off the Court.

LaVine was a small net positive defender (and larger net positive on offense), so LaVine/Coby substitution doesn’t explain much here. But it is a red flag. Maybe there are splits out there that show something more nuanced that would address, related to role or otherwise.

Edit - missed a later thread on this. Maybe merge it with the poll (at bottom of first page of threads)?

[MrSparkle]

Time to bump this, given that the draft has not provided anyone who might compete with Coby for the role of primary scorer.

When I was looking at Huerter to evaluate what impact he has on the roster, I went to 82games because I really like and trust their raw on/off stats. These are unregressed, not accounting for substitution or otherwise, but I find them very helpful.

Unfortunately, what I see for last year for Coby is concerning. Both offense and defense improved when he was off the court. Worse, while team offensive efficiency (eFG) was only a tiny reduction with him on (basically net neutral), eFG allowed decreased by almost 3% when he went off the Court.

LaVine was a small net positive defender (and larger net positive on offense), so LaVine/Coby substitution doesn’t explain much here. But it is a red flag. Maybe there are splits out there that show something more nuanced that would address, related to role or otherwise.

Yeah, it’s pretty weird. I don’t know how to read that data yet. I partially think that the defense just got torched when the Giddey/Coby/Vuc trio was out there (let alone Huerter too). Of course if AK ever moves on from Vuc, or Noa/Matas can play together, it’ll be a different Bulls rim.

[nomorezorro]

i don't think the giddey/coby fit is ever going to be there defensively, but at this point i have a hard time imagining them getting a return on coby that would justify moving on from him right now. i would prioritize moving vucevic and using the first couple of months of the season to see how coby plays with a better defensive center.

best case scenario, the defense is stronger and coby maintains his post-trade level of offensive play and then you have an interesting decision to make on whether to retain him. worst case scenario, you move him at the deadline for (presumably) a slightly softer return than what you could get now

[ChiTownHero1992]

I just can't imagine he takes another discounted contract, he took a very small/short term(3yr) deal with this extension to prove himself and he has shown out for the most part (streaky but good). Someone is going to pay him big bucks, he'll be making 28-30M+ if not higher on a deal my guess and personally if we are investing in GIddey, we cannot afford to invest in Coby too because the defense would be horrendous, its one or the other and my gut says keep GIddey.

[Peelboy]

I'm coming around to the potential that there's a world in which this team can MAYBE be a 3-6 seed in EC. Resigned Giddy, resigned Coby, and Ayo along with Matas, Essengue, and likely a high pick (plus a mid pick if portland conveys) has a lot of potential. If PW can stay healthy and actually contribute, there's a potential lineup with Giddy-Coby/Ayo-Essengue-Matas-PW with pretty solid D (Noa playing the 3 defensively helps offset lack of bulk). That has plus shooting at 2 positions (Coby, PW), solid at 2 (Matas, Giddey), and a questionmark but potential (Noa). Can really fly downcourt and scramble defensively with all 3 bigs able to switch as needed. Main issue is Giddey defending at G, but I'd consider cross-matching Noa on PGs with his length and mobility and Giddey sticking on SF.

Kind of a Indy-lite, with Giddey as Haliburton without the deep range, Coby better than Nembhard, Noa hopefully a Siakam-like player, and PW a less bruising Turner. Or like the Raptors of a few years back with Siakam, Barnes, OG. But better G play.

[Infinity2152]

I'll say this. Getting Essengue changes a lot. If he pans out, that should be an outstanding defender flying around the court with Matas. We get a very good defensive center, the team could work with Coby and Giddey. Lot of switching in the NBA anyway, and I think I'm actually more optimistic on keeping Coby now. He and Essengue kind of complement each other's weaknesses. Coby high volume three point shooter, Essengue rim runner and defensively disrupting his side of the court with his length. Matas doing the same thing on the other side.

[MrSparkle]

I'm coming around to the potential that there's a world in which this team can MAYBE be a 3-6 seed in EC. Resigned Giddy, resigned Coby, and Ayo along with Matas, Essengue, and likely a high pick (plus a mid pick if portland conveys) has a lot of potential. If PW can stay healthy and actually contribute, there's a potential lineup with Giddy-Coby/Ayo-Essengue-Matas-PW with pretty solid D (Noa playing the 3 defensively helps offset lack of bulk). That has plus shooting at 2 positions (Coby, PW), solid at 2 (Matas, Giddey), and a questionmark but potential (Noa). Can really fly downcourt and scramble defensively with all 3 bigs able to switch as needed. Main issue is Giddey defending at G, but I'd consider cross-matching Noa on PGs with his length and mobility and Giddey sticking on SF.

Kind of a Indy-lite, with Giddey as Haliburton without the deep range, Coby better than Nembhard, Noa hopefully a Siakam-like player, and PW a less bruising Turner. Or like the Raptors of a few years back with Siakam, Barnes, OG. But better G play.

I’m not that optimistic.

But we have had shades of being an excellent defensive team. Even the deep B unit with Terry, Ayo, Phillips… then you throw a half-working Lonzo, Noa, improved Matas…

Right now the last step is dumping Vuc. Addition by subtraction.

[Infinity2152]

We actually have a fair number of good defensive players. Ball, Ayo, Terry, Phillips, Smith, Williams, Matas, Noa, even Carter was considered a good defender. Problem is that the offensive players have just been much better than the defensive players for so long.

[drosestruts]

I feel like fans alwasy favor their "homegrown" guy more, but to me in ranking guards 6'6" or smaller on our team I have


1. Lonzo - obviously health is a question mark

2. Tre Jones
3. Coby
4. Ayo
5. Carter



Jones played really well for us during is small stint. He's the smallest of the bunch by far, but probably the second best defender of the group. Great assist to turnover ratio. Not a volume shooter, but great at getting to and scoring at the rim.

Our best starting lineup could be:

Giddey
Jones
Ball
Buzelis
Vuc

Based on our current roster. (would love for that to not be Vuc)

[Infinity2152]

I feel like fans alwasy favor their "homegrown" guy more, but to me in ranking guards 6'6" or smaller on our team I have


1. Lonzo - obviously health is a question mark

2. Tre Jones
3. Coby
4. Ayo
5. Carter



Jones played really well for us during is small stint. He's the smallest of the bunch by far, but probably the second best defender of the group. Great assist to turnover ratio. Not a volume shooter, but great at getting to and scoring at the rim.

Our best starting lineup could be:

Giddey
Jones
Ball
Buzelis
Vuc

Based on our current roster. (would love for that to not be Vuc)

I like Jones. I'm a huge advocate of bringing him back, whether or not we trade Lonzo. Lonzo can easily play SG, he's been playing ball next to Lamelo his whole life, lol! We've seen he can play with Giddey, and it solves our POA defense and defensive SG issue. I SO want Ball to be healthy 60+ games and quiet the naysayers. Way guys miss games, nowadays I'm cool with 55+.

And i agree that would be the best lineup with this roster, and even better if we replaced Vucevic. If Matas develops into a rim protector, he could look good next to Vuc. If Noa can crack the starting lineup-Tre goes to the bench though, lmao! Same with if Williams is a league average player.

[Chi town]

Solid thread on the GB about the shrinking market for scoring guards that don’t play D.

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