With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!

[nikster]

Also, why would people talk about Essgenue in CMB thread?

To complain. Which to YP's point is sometimes just not people's cup of tea.

To me, I can't control this. Masai has a fantastic drafting record. Funny that I see a few of the same names that claimed Barnes was a disaster pick.

It's okay to just not know and wait to see what happens.

I don’t have a problem taking BPA. If that’s CMB that’s fine. Here’s the thing with the Barnes draft comp: Barnes had a lot of fit questions and we were told to take a “wait and see” approach. What happened? His fit with our best player (Siakam) didn’t work out, the team slogged along and eventually the team had to be remodeled.

Drafting a non-shooting PF whose game doesn’t fit with our current max salary, face of the franchise PF. We’ve seen this story before. All current signs point to this team not working and that’s not exactly encouraging considering we just put together this version of the roster.

We went BPA. BPA also happens to probably be the worst possible fit with the “face of franchise”. That kills some of the excitement.

I completely disagree that the fit with Siakam and Barnes was much of an issue. They didn't have an ideal roster around them with both a non shooting big and PG, yet that was Barnes best season and he made all star team (and fell off after Siakam left) while Siakams last 30 games was one of the best stretches of his career.

[Son Goku 25]

I'm excited about what Gradey does, he's gonna be open and I think it's time for him to shine.

[WuTang_CMB]

There’s no perfect prospect. All these players not named cooper have holes. Underrated aspect is he has a good handle and his ability to finish is pretty good. Gotta work with the shot.

[Pointgod]

Don’t love the pick but hoping the best for CMB and a long career.

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

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[Tacoma]

I think this is the first time in years I’m left shaking my head at a draft pick. I will probably never understand the logic of reaching way down for a safe pick just because of fit, and not drafting potential and talent and swinging for the fences with one of maybe 3 18 year old prospects. This team needed to swing for the fences.

I wanted Maluach, and admit CMB was a blind spot for me because we have Scottie and depth pieces at the 4, but don't see how this isn't a swing-for-the-fences pick. Vecenie and really most of the draft twitter nerds had him higher than consensus because of the combination of what is already elite (defense, footwork, feel/IQ, stocks) and what's holding his value down (shooting). My reaction was that it's a gamble, but one that the FO is clearly comfortable taking given the team's track record on improving shooting and the developmental focus they've re-established with Darko and his staff.

He seems far from a finished product. I've been going back and watching Folk, Game Theory, Hoops Intellect etc. on him now and am actually pretty excited about his ceiling. He did some pretty remarkable things on a bad team in the toughest conference in the NCAA, got him onto the All-SEC 2nd team (with Tre Johnson). I'm definitely warming up, especially after having just watched Jack's reaction.

I agree in believing this is a swing for the fences pick, and he's also a BPA pick as well. Bobby Webster reasoned why they thought he was BPA:

“Yeah we had him higher than nine. I think, the defensive stuff, versatility, we've seen a lot of players here be successful in that role. And I think that was high on our list.”

This elite defense along with his good BBIQ and high work ethic makes him BPA at #9. CMD is aware his biggest weakness is shooting:

“Shooting. Shooting is always gonna be at my number one to get better at it. Being more quick with my hands and low with my hips and just getting everything in tune to be a reliable shooter in the NBA level. It’ll always be shooting even if — or when I become a good shooter I’d say. It’ll always be my number one aspect to work on, and to grow my confidence over time.”

With All NBA Defense potential as his base, if he can develop a reliable mid-range game with a decent 3PT shooting added in, then Kawhi-like could be his swing for the fences upside. It's not an ideal fit with Barnes but if finding all star potential talent is priority #1, then CMD at #9 is a good pick.

[DG88]

The haters will say it's A.I.

The real Hooper's will say it's destiny

[TGM]

I don't think people realize how strong CMB is. Dude is 240 pounds. He going to even be pushing Scottie around.

240 on a 6'7 frame with agility is insane. Once his body transforms to more muscle this guy will be a terror to play against.

Draymond is able to defend most centers because of his weight and agility. CMB is probably the closest thing to Draymond we've seen in a long time.

Add in his college teammates were garbage. If he had better mates, he would probably be averaging 4-5 assists.

[Duffman100]

I'm still waiting to hear who the clear higher upside pick was in this situation?

[Scase]

Outside of the very top picks, isn't every draft selection at least somewhat a 'we can fix him' pick? They're still kids with a lot to learn and room to grow. None of them are finished products that don't have holes.

i get it really, i think they looked at guys in the range(noa, bryant, maluach) and decided they have a better chance fixing his shot than fixing the the weaknesses of the other guys in his range, which are just as glaring. and i think they liked what he actually already does (extremely)well already, more.

I get what you are both saying, and the logic is sound, but it's the multiple cases of drafting, signing, trading for athletic guys who can't shoot worth a damn and thinking we can fix that. I'm fine with drafting a guy at 9th that has obvious shortcomings, but can we get more of the guys who can actually shoot and work on the other stuff? Gradey was a good start, lets keep that up.

And Gradey has been a net-negative since joining the the team. I liked going after an offense focused player - but both sides can bite you.

I'm not saying it's inherently wrong, but we've not seen a lot of success trying to teach guys to shoot, so I'd like to see us try something different for a while.

I wish the guy success, seems like a good kid, I'm just bothered by how poor of a shooting team we are that's all. If they manage to teach him how to shoot like 36% from the corners, I'll be a happy camper.

[Dalek]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

A big problem is CMB’s average outcome puts us in a spot where he can’t play with our franchise player (Barnes) if we want to have any semblance of a good offense. Even his “good” outcome (reaching Siakam level shooting) and the fit doesn’t really work (as we’ve seen). Even the Draymond upside has issues. Draymond couldn’t really play small ball C full-time because of the wear and tear. No undersized player has really ever been able to do it effectively full-time.

If we are committed to Barnes then for this to work we pretty much need a 95% outcome from CMB and those odds aren’t great. You can say “BPA” but BPA at 9 is different than at 2. If you rate CMB 86/100 and someone else 84/100 then yeah, you’ve taken the best player but is that 2/100 difference worth it when the fit with your franchise player is bad? It’s not as simple as BPA imo. Some aspect of fit should be considered if we are committed to Barnes.

If CMB is the savant many think he is, and he develops a jumper, you move on from Scottie B. But I honestly think they can play together and project to be a menace on defense.

I hope it works because I was a fan of CMB since last season and I know he is an all-effort guy all the time. I had him high on my board for the defense, but he is still 240 lbs and not a quick twitch guy, so people thinking he can guard 2-5 maybe be let down. He still needs to lose weight.

The hardest part to give him a pass on is the shooting and from freshman to sophomore years he took some steps, but if you watch his jump shots there is a severe hitch and as far as misses, he can be a shooter that misses two feet wide of the rim. Bad misses scare me with players because in his case they have to rebuild his form.

My question is the fit with the starters because for all we know Toronto brings back Poeltl. If that is the case we have Barnes, CMB and Poeltl on the floor, and only two shooters at best to surround them. Unless they ban zone defense, I think if I am any team playing Toronto I sit in zone all game and let Toronto figure that out.

[RoteSchroder]

To complain. Which to YP's point is sometimes just not people's cup of tea.

To me, I can't control this. Masai has a fantastic drafting record. Funny that I see a few of the same names that claimed Barnes was a disaster pick.

It's okay to just not know and wait to see what happens.

I don’t have a problem taking BPA. If that’s CMB that’s fine. Here’s the thing with the Barnes draft comp: Barnes had a lot of fit questions and we were told to take a “wait and see” approach. What happened? His fit with our best player (Siakam) didn’t work out, the team slogged along and eventually the team had to be remodeled.

Drafting a non-shooting PF whose game doesn’t fit with our current max salary, face of the franchise PF. We’ve seen this story before. All current signs point to this team not working and that’s not exactly encouraging considering we just put together this version of the roster.

We went BPA. BPA also happens to probably be the worst possible fit with the “face of franchise”. That kills some of the excitement.

I completely disagree that the fit with Siakam and Barnes was much of an issue. They didn't have an ideal roster around them with both a non shooting big and PG, yet that was Barnes best season and he made all star team (and fell off after Siakam left) while Siakams last 30 games was one of the best stretches of his career.

Siakam was getting better at 3 towards the end of his Raptors tenure too, but I can’t imagine any team doing well with a poo poo platter rotation of Precious, Malachi, Dennis Schroder, GTJr and a revolving rotation of low-end NBA journeymen. Pretty much none of the guys we played are doing anything now..Svi, Yuta, Birch, Dowtin, etc.

[Raptors Realtor]

I'm still waiting to hear who the clear higher upside pick was in this situation?

Same here...

[traps#10]

Hopefully CMB proves me wrong, I just don’t like undersized players playing the C spot. Praying he’s not like a Lonny Baxter type

[wow09]

Happy we kept and made the pick. I believe in Bobby & Masai they have a proven track record with drafting.

[Dalek]

I'm still waiting to hear who the clear higher upside pick was in this situation?

Khaman Maluach obviously at age 18, 7'2 and mobile is the highest upside pick.

Cases can be made for Carter Bryant and Cedric Coward who both project as better shooters and have defensive upside.

CMB has really limited two-way upside mainly because he isn't a crazy athlete and is undersize for his position. He's about a Grant Williams sized PF.

[Mikistan]

Yeah, after I saw his post draft interviews it was clear to me he wasn't actually pissed when he got picked.

And who cares really if he is. He's drafted by us, he'll get acclimated and like his teammates. We have him under control for many years.

I care. I think it's kind of silly that people say it doesn't matter. I want people to want to represent this city.

Demar wanted to represent us, doesn't mean he was going to get us to the promised land

[Drakeem]

I think outside of guys who base their draft projections out of advanced stay models CMB is not a guy you pick in our spot. The upside to drafting a defensive stopper is not there.

The offensive upside of a below-the-rim finishing, undersized big, is the main issues. It is almost impossible to find a comparable player or role type to CMB in the NBA as a result. Plays a C type of game but is too small.

Reality for him is that he will need to adjust to the size and speed of defense in the NBA and he won't score as much. He will feed off rebounds/putbacks and really be on the floor for defense. His role is a defensive stopper.

That is perfect for a team like Houston or OKC that is loaded with talent and already has a winning/contending team. They can add specialists.

Toronto's FO acts like it is already a playoff team with a move like this. Upside guys were around like Essengue, Maluach, Bryant, and Coward and we passed. Any of those players might have become star players because they are young and don't have a lot of barriers.

Now, we are in a position where if CMB doesn't progress with his shooting and/or struggles with his finishing we have a 9 PPG 7 REB bench level PF. The defense is great but I don't know if he has a ton of value in future trades.

We basically drafted a better Mogbo and this was our last chance at a high first pick. You just hope he has all-NBA level defense.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

A big problem is CMB’s average outcome puts us in a spot where he can’t play with our franchise player (Barnes) if we want to have any semblance of a good offense. Even his “good” outcome (reaching Siakam level shooting) and the fit doesn’t really work (as we’ve seen). Even the Draymond upside has issues. Draymond couldn’t really play small ball C full-time because of the wear and tear. No undersized player has really ever been able to do it effectively full-time.

If we are committed to Barnes then for this to work we pretty much need a 95% outcome from CMB and those odds aren’t great. You can say “BPA” but BPA at 9 is different than at 2. If you rate CMB 86/100 and someone else 84/100 then yeah, you’ve taken the best player but is that 2/100 difference worth it when the fit with your franchise player is bad? It’s not as simple as BPA imo. Some aspect of fit should be considered if we are committed to Barnes.

I think Masai isn't convinced Barnes is the guy, and he's taking as many stabs at finding that key piece as he can within the confines of the possibilities in front of him.

[Kurtz]

I'm still waiting to hear who the clear higher upside pick was in this situation?

The Chinese Jokic!

[bon]

The counter to this is that he’s no longer going up against defenders from Radford. We were the 3rd lowest volume 3pt shooting team last year (and the 8th worst in terms of 3pt%).

Barnes/Poeltl/Mogbo/CMB is the worst 4/5 shooting roster in the league. Spacing is going to be an issue.

We were also 25th in 2P% though. Of course we could use more shooting but grabbing an elite finisher was arguably a bigger need. More games played from Gradey, Walter, IQ, Battle and the Ingram addition will already boost our 3pt volume/effciency from last season

I would question how many rim opportunities CMB is going to get if 100% of his minutes are tied to one of Poeltl/Barnes/Mogbo. Getting to the rim becomes a lot harder when there are always 2 zero spacing bigs on the floor. It should work ok-ish with Poeltl as a screener but Barnes is no screener whatsoever. Spacing is going to be an issue for everyone.

Like I said originally he's already played with trash spacing and excelled. And that was as a guy who got 100% of the defensive attention from his opponents every night. The rim opportunities will be there because Darko's offense emphasizes it plus he can get his own when plays breaks down. People questioned Poeltl's fit offensively and he ended last season with a career high in scoring on his usual elite efficiency. Talent has a way of showing itself even in less than ideal circumstances