With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!

[Double Helix]

CMB will be a better scorer than Scottie, even without the jumpshot.

Nbadraft.net has a different opinion. btw, Scottie Barnes has a max vertical leap of 39.5 inches with 9'0.0'' standing reach.

Weaknesses: At 6’6.5″ barefoot, Murray-Boyles is undersized for a traditional post player, and while his 7’0” wingspan helps mitigate some of that, he lacks the vertical explosiveness and lateral quickness typically needed to overcome size limitations at the NBA level … He’s not particularly quick or bouncy, which could hinder his ability to finish over length or defend quicker forwards in space … His offensive game is heavily reliant on physicality, and he may face a steep adjustment against stronger, more athletic defenders at the next level … Lacks consistent perimeter shooting touch, hitting just 26.5% from three and 70.7% from the free throw line as a sophomore … While he did show growth by attempting more threes (9-of-34), his overall efficiency remains a concern, his mechanics look okay, but results are inconsistent, limiting his projection as a stretch-four or pick-and-pop threat … According to Hoop-Math.com, 75% of his shot attempts came at the rim, where he converted just 66.7%, a concern given the step up in rim protection at the pro level … Struggles to create in space and is still developing offensive polish beyond bully-ball tactics in the post … Can be turnover-prone (2.4 TO per game) when asked to initiate offense or operate as a creator against athletic defenders … Though a willing and creative passer, he doesn’t project as a true playmaking forward, lacking the vision and ball-handling to function as a secondary initiator … Much of his long-term offensive potential hinges on developing a reliable jumper, but there’s currently little statistical evidence to suggest that’s imminent … Without a more refined offensive skill set or improved athleticism, his scoring efficiency and overall impact may be limited against NBA-caliber competition.

Outlook: Murray-Boyles projects as a rotational big with starter potential, though realizing that upside will likely depend on continued development of his offensive skill set … Some evaluators are extremely high on him, with projections ranging from a lottery pick to a potential future All-Star due to his age, toughness, and versatility … However, we’re on the lower side of his NBA projection … While he has been one of the most productive and assertive young players in college basketball over the past two seasons, his skill set doesn’t necessarily translate as well to today’s NBA… He stands out in analytics models thanks to his ability to impact the game across multiple categories, rebounding, steals, assists, and defensive activity, especially as a long, switchable forward … But the negatives must be weighed carefully: he’s essentially a small-ball big who lacks ideal lift, explosiveness, and shooting range … Without significant improvement as a shooter and more refinement in his offensive game, there’s a real risk that his effectiveness doesn’t carry over against NBA length and speed … He could still carve out a role as a high-motor utility forward, but projecting him as more than that, without tangible skill growth — could be overly optimistic …

With measurements both athletically and in length shockingly similar to Flagg I don’t think the Raptors are too worried.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Doesn’t this imply a “throw sh*t at the wall approach”? It doesn’t exactly speak to much confidence in the current team when they draft a guy who is extremely similar (and a bad fit) with the current franchise player.

No, it means they probably have a baseline for discovering guys that can stick in the NBA and that usually results in playing better than their draft position.

I don’t understand the how they can draft a guy “who plays the way they want” while also being a really bad fit with other players on the roster. How much does play style matter when you’re compromising the end results due to poorly fitting pieces? “I know we’re playing the way we want to but unfortunately we can’t shoot at all and it’s really hurting our offense”. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

Rosters change frequently. We did draft two high volume 3PT shooters in the last two first rounds, so those guys made it through the filter, too.

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

interesting

Read on Twitter

[WuTang_CMB]

RJ Barrett and Brandon Ingram are scoring-centric players, but similarly sized, belonging in the same positional pool. So, 18 months after dismantling Project 6-9 by dealing O.G. Anunoby and Pascal Siakam, are they just doing Project 6-7 now? Maybe.

Alternatively: Maybe we shouldn’t get attached to this version of the Raptors, who are suddenly full of bigger wings and forwards and thin elsewhere.

“I think ‘best player available’ (draft mindset) is … assuming the guy’s going to be with you for a long time. So you want him to be great,” Raptors general manager Bobby Webster said. “If he so happens to be productive early, great. But I think it’s always much more of a long-term view, which in Collin’s case, we know he’s gonna be really good on defense. We know he’s really good around the rim. If he turns into a really good shooter, then that sort of changes the trajectory of his career.”

In other words, don’t worry about what the roster looks like now.

Doing the “how does it fit” exercise on draft night is silly — especially under the new CBA. There are only going to be more transactions, not fewer, as teams scramble to avoid financial penalties and rush to be competitive given increased parity. And there is nobody the Raptors should feel especially attached to.

Barnes is a good player, but didn’t ascend to anything beyond an All-Star replacement during his rookie contract. Barrett had moments of offensive efficiency and solid defence, but he has yet to put it all together for a whole season. Ingram is a massively talented scorer, but an injury risk and an iffy offensive fit with his history of holding on to the ball. The Raptors shouldn’t be married to anybody on their roster — a roster that will need some reorganization sooner rather than later. They will be very close, if not over the luxury-tax threshold going into the season, so a deal that changes the balance of the roster and saves some money is certainly possible.

Webster said the draft acts as a de facto second trade deadline, so that trade might not come imminently. He said there was lots of conversation about the Raptors pick, and they were willing to move down or out of the draft, but obviously they didn’t find the right trade.

Still, there will be player-for-player trades that are discussed.

“We’re still in talent acquisition mode,” Webster said. “I think we’re not so worried about position as we try to find these players. Obviously teams change a lot, and you can trade, there’s a lot of different movement there.”

By trading for Ingram, the Raptors signalled their intent to compete for more than a low Play-In seed next year. Facing injuries to their best or second-best players, the Boston Celtics, Indiana Pacers and Milwaukee Bucks — three of the East’s top six seeds — will have lowered expectations.

Other teams looking to leap from the middle of the conference toward the top, such as Orlando with Desmond Bane and Atlanta with Kristaps Porziņģis, have already made their move. The Ingram trade likely counts as the Raptors’ big one, but there is plenty of fine-tuning that can be done between now and the start of the year.

As for Murray-Boyles, he attempted only 34 3s last year at South Carolina, making just nine — 32 and nine more, respectively, than Mogbo in his final college season. Since Mogbo took 73 3s in 60 games for the Raptors last year, you should believe the team will encourage Murray-Boyles to take the open ones he gets.

“I came into my pre-draft process two weeks earlier than anybody else just to work on my mechanics,” Murray-Boyles said. “It’s been a challenge and not in a bad way, but that’s the main thing every single day that I come to the gym. Just getting shots up and trying to focus on my form, trying to keep it as consistent as possible, trying to do the little things to make it more comfortable for me. Right now I’ve got it to where I feel that type of comfort that I’ve been wanting. So, it’s been a really good process for me.”

“I think we always feel like you can stack IQ,” Webster added about Murray-Boyles playing with Barnes. “So I think that feels to me like they’ll play well with each other. You obviously have to worry about the shooting. But I think we have some shooting that you can package with both of those guys. Thinking of the defensive end, you think about maybe a front line of Collin and Scottie and (Jakob Poeltl). It’s formidable on the other end as well.”

The Raptors are banking on defence, to be sure. But to assume they will sign a few guys to minimum contracts and break camp from there does not feel likely.

[ArthurVandelay]

This pick is bringing back memories of 2012 when Raptors picked TRoss when having DD but passed on arguably the better choice in Andre Drummond because they had JV.

The more I think about it, and given FO draft history, I’m totally fine with the pick. Fair warning though, if Essengue or Maluach blow up, I’ll be marching with the pitchfork.

Drummond blew up and then fizzled out quickly. That was good scouting.

Drummond was a 2x all-star by age 24 and averaged about 16/15 over his first 7 seasons earning a max contract after his rookie deal. He would have had significantly more trade value than Ross, or maybe JV is traded earlier who also would have had more value than Ross.

Avoiding a guy who started to fizzle out in his 8th season out isn't good scouting.

[ghuytro]

I think this is the first time in years I’m left shaking my head at a draft pick. I will probably never understand the logic of reaching way down for a safe pick just because of fit, and not drafting potential and talent and swinging for the fences with one of maybe 3 18 year old prospects. This team needed to swing for the fences.

Are you sure CMB isn't a swing for the fences?

And the kind of swing for the fences where if you miss it's not a pop fly, but a double or maybe even a triple instead.

I'll take it.

[WiggOuts]

I watched the CBS draft analysis with Avery Johnson and found this bit funny:

Spurs: Have a ROY PG, trade for an all-star PG, draft another PG with the #2 pick. Avery: "I give it an A, you don't worry about fit, you just draft BPA. You can never have enough quality depth. You need a deep roster like IND and OKC with 6-7-8-9th guys". The Spurs have 3 starting PGs that need minutes - not a problem.

Raptors: Have a ROY F, trade for an all-star F, draft another F with the #9 pick. Avery: "I give it a C-, I don't like the fit, they should've drafted for fit." Doesn't care about quality depth apparently now, depending on the pick and the team lol. Raptors have 3 quality F's to play 2 F positions. That's apparently a problem.

These guys are just talking out of their asses.

you should post this on his social media and ask him to explain

[VanWest82]

This post from a Raptors fan who predicted we'd draft CMB got me hyped. Masai has done it again.

https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/s/XI7BROSr8F

Thanks for sharing this. What a great post!

[Yallbecrazy]

This post from a Raptors fan who predicted we'd draft CMB got me hyped. Masai has done it again.

https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/s/XI7BROSr8F

I think that guy posts here too.

[MEDIC]

Watching CMB's defensive intensity in College........he reminds me of a 6'7" version of Shead.

[ConSarnit]

"He’s the guy we decided to keep" you don't decide sh**.

Was he on the trade block? No. Why keeping him ? Because he's a talented player, who can be a cornerstone for a successful future. That's why. Only bums with zero knowledge expected him to be Kawhi Jordan and be the ultimate franchise guy. It's your own fault that you became so grim.

There is zero evidence he can be a cornerstone of a successful future. The guy was maybe the worst volume scorer in the entire league last year. But sure, keep telling yourself that’s cornerstone material.

That's the problem, and exactly what I meant, you only care about scoring, franchise guys etc The game is so much more than scoring. He's been putting in a situation where he's not comfortable with it and has to learn and it doesn't suit his game, everyone knew it from the beginning. He never was a scorer. You should change the sport. Guys like you are the worst.

How many more excuses can you guys make for the guy? It’s never Barnes fault, it’s always the situation.

So if the guy isn’t going to score on volume or efficiency, what exactly is his role while making 25% of the cap? If you reduce his scoring you’re going to reduce his playmaking opportunities. He hasn’t shown he’s an all NBA level defensive player yet. The guys isn’t a 2nd year player anymore. He has to show more if he’s getting a rookie max deal.

Barnes can no longer just be some “fit in, solid piece” guy. He can’t be Aaron Gordon if he’s making 25% of the cap. Barnes making $40m a year with his current production is an issue for this team. If you want to see everything as sunshine and rainbows more power to you but that doesn’t help make the team better.

[VanWest82]

I was dubious with the Scottie pick (though also cautiously optimistic given our track record) because he was a role player pretending to be a PG entering the draft. He didn't seem to know what he was and wasn't good at (and in some ways still doesn't).

CMB knows exactly what he is, what he can do, and how best to impact the game. Coming into the league, he can do pretty much everything except shooting and play PG. But even without those skills, he still brings so much to the table on offense (driving, finishing, moving without the ball, screening/rolling/quick decisions, PUs/play making, offensive rebounding), that it's going to work in year one imo. And if he does develop 35-38% C&S corner three, he might be an all star.

CMB has a high floor imo just because he can do so many things, but I'd argue his ceiling is top 4 in this draft (if he's just average C&S). He crushed it against some very tough SEC front lines. I'm surprised so many seem so down on on the pick.

[ATLTimekeeper]

This pick is bringing back memories of 2012 when Raptors picked TRoss when having DD but passed on arguably the better choice in Andre Drummond because they had JV.

The more I think about it, and given FO draft history, I’m totally fine with the pick. Fair warning though, if Essengue or Maluach blow up, I’ll be marching with the pitchfork.

Drummond blew up and then fizzled out quickly. That was good scouting.

Drummond was a 2x all-star by age 24 and averaged about 16/15 over his first 7 seasons earning a max contract after his rookie deal. He would have had significantly more trade value than Ross, or maybe JV is traded earlier who also would have had more value than Ross.

Avoiding a guy who started to fizzle out in his 8th season out isn't good scouting.

Yeah or maybe he was always an immature kid who could put up numbers on bad teams.

By his 7th season he was traded for a 2nd rounder. TRoss was traded for Serge Ibaka and JV was traded for Marc Gasol.

[Spates]

Read on Twitter

interesting

Read on Twitter

Brother, I am haven't been this excited to watch a raptors prospect in ages.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

This dude needs Kalkbrenner as his C

[MEDIC]

Aside from the Championship squad, is this the deepest the Raps have ever been at the wing position?

Ingram, Barnes, Barrett, Walter, CMB, Ochai

Then you have Battle, Dick, Lawson, Mogbo, Rhoden & Quick can play some 2.

11 players on the roster can legit play the 2 and/ or 3. They are set up pretty well to deal with injuries this season.

They need more bigs though. I would also like to see Walter get some PG minutes.

[ConSarnit]

Doesn’t this imply a “throw sh*t at the wall approach”? It doesn’t exactly speak to much confidence in the current team when they draft a guy who is extremely similar (and a bad fit) with the current franchise player.

No, it means they probably have a baseline for discovering guys that can stick in the NBA and that usually results in playing better than their draft position.

I don’t understand the how they can draft a guy “who plays the way they want” while also being a really bad fit with other players on the roster. How much does play style matter when you’re compromising the end results due to poorly fitting pieces? “I know we’re playing the way we want to but unfortunately we can’t shoot at all and it’s really hurting our offense”. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

Rosters change frequently. We did draft two high volume 3PT shooters in the last two first rounds, so those guys made it through the filter, too.

We’re talking about big roster changes though. Like move off of Barnes and Poeltl type changes.

In a vacuum the CMB pick is fine. I trust the FO as far as drafting goes. What someone needs to ask them is “if CMB never learns how to shoot do you think it’s tenable that he and Barnes can play together? And if not, what does that mean for Barnes future?”

The odds are against CMB becoming a good shooter and if that’s the case this team doesn’t work. How does the FO reconcile this with their commitment to Barnes?

[tsherkin]

In a vacuum the CMB pick is fine. I trust the FO as far as drafting goes. What someone needs to ask them is “if CMB never learns how to shoot do you think it’s tenable that he and Barnes can play together? And if not, what does that mean for Barnes future?”

The odds are against CMB becoming a good shooter and if that’s the case this team doesn’t work. How does the FO reconcile this with their commitment to Barnes?

That's a very good question.

[OakleyDokely]

Rookie of the Year odds

Cooper Flagg -200
Ace Bailey +650
Tre Johnson +750
Dylan Harper +1200
VJ Edgecombe +2500
Derik Queen +3000
Egor Demin +3300
Jeremiah Fears +3300
Kon Knueppel +3300
Kasparas Jakucionis +6000
Collin Murray-Boyles +7500

https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/3304472/nba-rookie-of-the-year-odds-flagg-heavily-favored

[RaptorPride]

Two different approaches, which side wins:

CMB
Scottie Barnes
Jonathan Mogbo
Ochai Agbaji
Jamal Shead

VS

Danny Wolf
Egor Demin
Ben Saraf
Cam Thomas
Nolan Traore

I'm a fan of both. But Brooklyn is possibly adding a top 3 pick next year to that core. And another lottery pick the year after. That team can easily become stacked over night. TWO members of this board will be super jealous of them.

2 years is not overnight

You know what I mean. One or two of these guys start to pop and add high end lottery picks to the team they would be stacked.