Cooper Flagg discussion thread (Part 2: Son of Cooper Flagg Thread)

[PostGameDaVinci]

Can't believe he's not running it back. This guy's not a winner. He should drop in the draft. Maybe a small market team like the Knicks can pick him up late 1st round.

[jowglenn]

I've had my eye on this guy for a while... I feel like he could surprise some people and go #1

[Ice Man]

Haha the fact that so many people and talking heads ran with a clearly out of context quote, which the author of the article had to come out multiple times to clarify that Flagg never intended to return, but no one listened.

And the idea of him returning became a talking point for all the talking heads was pretty funny to watch.

Mostly agree. The mostly part is that Cooper did feed into this non-existent mystery after the NCAA tournament. I mean, he could have answered questions about whether he was declaring for the draft by saying something like "I will be issuing a statement soon," but instead he used language like "I am weighing my options, it's a big decision."

But really ... there wasn't much of a decision to be made, was there?

[Duke4life831]

Haha the fact that so many people and talking heads ran with a clearly out of context quote, which the author of the article had to come out multiple times to clarify that Flagg never intended to return, but no one listened.

And the idea of him returning became a talking point for all the talking heads was pretty funny to watch.

Mostly agree. The mostly part is that Cooper did feed into this non-existent mystery after the NCAA tournament. I mean, he could have answered questions about whether he was declaring for the draft by saying something like "I will be issuing a statement soon," but instead he used language like "I am weighing my options, it's a big decision."

But really ... there wasn't much of a decision to be made, was there?

To me he did the basic PR talking points that every OAD says while they’re playing. Very rarely you get like a Ben Simmons who just flat out says midway through the season, I didn’t want to play college basketball but I had no other options.

Most obvious OADs will say the go to lines of

“I’m just focused on the current season right now, I’ll face that decision when the time comes”
“Currently weighing my decisions”
“I love it here (whatever college they’re at), I’m just focused on the moment right now”

To me Flagg just did the basic PR stuff after that article. Most players know it’s not the smartest decision to publicly come out and essentially say, I can’t wait to move on to a different team haha

[Hoop Hunter]

I've had my eye on this guy for a while... I feel like he could surprise some people and go #1

It'll be a shocker, but I think I agree.

[MikRay]

I think he’s might struggle to set himself apart in NBA. I have no doubt he’s going to be a serviceable player, but not the way people are talking about him. People talk about him like he’s a lock to be a HOF player. I would be shocked if he is ever considered a top tier player at the NBA level. He just does not have any distinct skill set that pops out at you IMO.

[adubmac]

He should've just graduated high school and has one of the highest floors from a recent draftee. Will he ever become the best player in the world? The odds are against him but I think it's a pretty safe bet that he'll be one of the few players playing defence in the many alls-tar games he'll be starting.

[manlisten]

I think he’s might struggle to set himself apart in NBA. I have no doubt he’s going to be a serviceable player, but not the way people are talking about him. People talk about him like he’s a lock to be a HOF player. I would be shocked if he is ever considered a top tier player at the NBA level. He just does not have any distinct skill set that pops out at you IMO.

Sounds like the reason for your doubts is that you're really not familiar with him at all. One of the draft experts on here gave a great breakdown a while back. He's about as can't miss as it gets.

[MikRay]

I think he’s might struggle to set himself apart in NBA. I have no doubt he’s going to be a serviceable player, but not the way people are talking about him. People talk about him like he’s a lock to be a HOF player. I would be shocked if he is ever considered a top tier player at the NBA level. He just does not have any distinct skill set that pops out at you IMO.

Sounds like the reason for your doubts is that you're really not familiar with him at all. One of the draft experts on here gave a great breakdown a while back. He's about as can't miss as it gets.

No, I’ve seen him play in almost all his college games. I just think he might struggle with the better athletes in the pro game. I’m pulling for he seems like a good kid. I just don’t think he’s gonna be anything special like people think. Time will tell I guess.

[dirkdiggler4177]

I think he’s might struggle to set himself apart in NBA. I have no doubt he’s going to be a serviceable player, but not the way people are talking about him. People talk about him like he’s a lock to be a HOF player. I would be shocked if he is ever considered a top tier player at the NBA level. He just does not have any distinct skill set that pops out at you IMO.

My impression is that most people feel the same as you. He is overall solid, will have a great career, but he is not dominant in any area. People also have this weird understanding of his offensive game, where they have to compare him to a white player. I would not be surprised if his peak was 22pg, 8 and 4-5apg

Imo, he reminds me of an earlier Julius Randle on offense, high post, attack straight into traffic. P.J. Washington's defense, great motor, can block shots, hustles, but is overrated in perimeter defense.

[dc]

My impression is that most people feel the same as you. He is overall solid, will have a great career, but he is not dominant in any area. People also have this weird understanding of his offensive game, where they have to compare him to a white player. I would not be surprised if his peak was 22pg, 8 and 4-5apg

Imo, he reminds me of an earlier Julius Randle on offense, high post, attack straight into traffic. P.J. Washington's defense, great motor, can block shots, hustles, but is overrated in perimeter defense.

I think he'll be a very good player at the least, but we'll have to see if he can be great. His passing and improvements on shooting are a very good sign on offense. The question is, how well can he create and get his shot off. If he can do that at somewhere around a Tatum level, then he's going to be a legit franchise player.

Defensively, he should also be very good but we have to see if he can be great.

His "measurements" were good but they were clearly of a big wing (like Tatum) and not a "true" bigman like AD or Chet. He played as a big in college and was physically dominant, but I don't think that physical dominance will translate to the pros like AD/Chet because he's sort of going to be playing a different position in the pros.

And yeah, I'm curious to see his foot speed defensively on the perimeter.

But we'll just have to see him play. For all I know, this dude could be some Kawhi/Tatum combo and absolutely dominate on both ends.

[Marvin Martian]

I think he’s might struggle to set himself apart in NBA. I have no doubt he’s going to be a serviceable player, but not the way people are talking about him. People talk about him like he’s a lock to be a HOF player. I would be shocked if he is ever considered a top tier player at the NBA level. He just does not have any distinct skill set that pops out at you IMO.

The same can be said for Jalen Williams and he just got a ring.

The only thing holding back Flagg is his team. Ky and AD are high usage, high production guys who will deflate his numbers. I don't see how he becomes ROTY or even an all star in his first 4 years

[Duke4life831]

I think he’s might struggle to set himself apart in NBA. I have no doubt he’s going to be a serviceable player, but not the way people are talking about him. People talk about him like he’s a lock to be a HOF player. I would be shocked if he is ever considered a top tier player at the NBA level. He just does not have any distinct skill set that pops out at you IMO.

I will pushback on this part. If you consider defense as a skill, that most surely has to pop out.

He was an elite defender in college from the start, as a 17 year old. He’s going to be a guy that is going to be asked to defend the opposing team’s best player that is in that 6’7-6’10 range. That alone is very valuable.

Next, how many 6’9 college freshman averaged at least 4 assists per game with at least a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio?

To kind of put this into perspective. Ben Simmons was viewed as an elite facilitating PG prospect and getting Magic Johnson comparisons. He averaged 4.8 assists to 3.4 turners (158 assists to 111 turnovers)

Flagg on the year averaged 4.2 assists to 2.1 turnovers (156 assists to 78 turnovers).

Another positive for Flagg. 38% from 3 while shooting 84% from the line. In conference play he flirted with a 50/40/90 with shooting splits of 53/44/86.

Not even claiming he’s going to be a great shooter. But how many guys averaged at least 38% from 3 on at least 3.5 attempts per game and at least 84% from the line. To then go on to be bad shooters?

I think there are plenty of skills from him that stick out for a versatile 6’9 wing prospect.

[The Master]

Next, how many 6’9 college freshman averaged at least 4 assists per game with at least a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio?

To kind of put this into perspective. Ben Simmons was viewed as an elite facilitating PG prospect and getting Magic Johnson comparisons. He averaged 4.8 assists to 3.4 turners (158 assists to 111 turnovers)

Flagg on the year averaged 4.2 assists to 2.1 turnovers (156 assists to 78 turnovers).

To be fair, Flagg played on elite offensive team in terms of talent/shooting (three players with +40% on high volume from 3s), so it's hard to compare his stats to those of Simmons or Cade.

That being said, it's kind of true that Flagg doesn't have one signature skill: he's a great defender, but it's not a given he'll improve to the level of DPOTY-contender; he's a very promising shooter, but he's not A-level in this area; he's a very good playmaker, but he's not A-level creator (for now); he's a very good functional athlete and slasher, but he won't be the most dominant slasher in the league.

But that's the whole appeal of Flagg - he's very good and/or very promising in every facet of the game while age-wise being a 2026 draft prospect. So I don't think it's a legit criticism to point out, as it can be easily argued that he's in the top3 of the most versatile 18 year olds that we've seen this century. Like, if he had been a mediocre defender with fancy midrange game - he would've been definitely a more flashy prospect on YT highlights, but certainly not a better prospect overall/more impactful college player.

[okboomer]

He understands the game so well and will be a great defender, that even if you dont think he will be a number one scoring option on a title winning team (which is fair), he just does so many things too well already at 18 where he will be a ++ impact player. He is very athletic as well and is constantly trying to improve. Unless injuries ruin him, would be very surprised if he doesnt make multiple All NBA teams.

[Duke4life831]

Next, how many 6’9 college freshman averaged at least 4 assists per game with at least a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio?

To kind of put this into perspective. Ben Simmons was viewed as an elite facilitating PG prospect and getting Magic Johnson comparisons. He averaged 4.8 assists to 3.4 turners (158 assists to 111 turnovers)

Flagg on the year averaged 4.2 assists to 2.1 turnovers (156 assists to 78 turnovers).

To be fair, Flagg played on elite offensive team in terms of talent/shooting (three players with +40% on high volume from 3s), so it's hard to compare his stats to those of Simmons or Cade.

That being said, it's kind of true that Flagg doesn't have one signature skill: he's a great defender, but it's not a given he'll improve to the level of DPOTY-contender; he's a very promising shooter, but he's not A-level in this area; he's a very good playmaker, but he's not A-level creator (for now); he's a very good functional athlete and slasher, but he won't be the most dominant slasher in the league.

But that's the whole appeal of Flagg - he's very good and/or very promising in every facet of the game while age-wise being a 2026 draft prospect. So I don't think it's a legit criticism to point out, as it can be easily argued that he's in the top3 of the most versatile 18 year olds that we've seen this century. Like, if he had been a mediocre defender with fancy midrange game - he would've been definitely a more flashy prospect on YT highlights, but certainly not a better prospect overall/more impactful college player.

I don’t think you need to have potential to be a DPOY to say being an elite defender at 6’9 isn’t an elite skill. I think Flagg has the potential to be a perennial All Defense guy. I’d say that is an elite skill.

Id say his ability to get to the FT line is at an elite level for his size. As a freshman, he was 2nd in the ACC in FT attempts. I get the conference was down last year, but still coming in 2nd in a power conference league as a freshman, I’d say counts as an elite skill.

And if we really want to get into the nitty gritty of things. I think his ability to finish with his off hand (left hand) is at an elite level. When attacking the basket he doesn’t favor either hand. He uses his off hand and is as efficient with his off hand as any OAD from Duke I can remember since Kyrie.

[The Master]

I don’t think you need to have potential to be a DPOY to say being an elite defender at 6’9 isn’t an elite skill. I think Flagg has the potential to be a perennial All Defense guy. I’d say that is an elite skill.

Id say his ability to get to the FT line is at an elite level for his size. As a freshman, he was 2nd in the ACC in FT attempts. I get the conference was down last year, but still coming in 2nd in a power conference league as a freshman, I’d say counts as an elite skill.

And if we really want to get into the nitty gritty of things. I think his ability to finish with his off hand (left hand) is at an elite level. When attacking the basket he doesn’t favor either hand. He uses his off hand and is as efficient with his off hand as any OAD from Duke I can remember since Kyrie.

Sure, I'm not arguing Flagg isn't great in these areas or I'm not saying that he's not an amazing prospect - I do believe he is, I was just reframing the main 'criticism' of Flagg which I believe is based on the fact that he doesn't necessarily project to be the ~best player/dominant in something in comparison to this 1/2 tier of prospects in the last 20 years or so:

- LeBron was Magic-level talent in playmaking with godlike athleticism,
- KD was 6'10 forward with elite shooting and shot creation,
- Oden and then AD were the next in line of Tim Duncan-level defenders,
- Zion was a GOAT-level athlete with amazing touch for his size in college,
- Wembanyama ...,
- Doncic (for those who believed in him in his draft year) was a primary ballhandler for Eurobasket and Euroleague champions.

So yeah, I kind of agree that there's no singular thing in Flagg's skillset comparable to, let's say, AD's defense or Zion's athleticism. But I I do believe Flagg's thing in such perspective is being the most versatile 18yo in the recent memory (?), while still having an upside for point forward - 1A-level offensive anchor.

[dc]

So yeah, I kind of agree that there's no singular thing in Flagg's skillset comparable to, let's say, AD's defense or Zion's athleticism. But I I do believe Flagg's thing in such perspective is being the most versatile 18yo in the recent memory (?), while still having an upside for point forward - 1A-level offensive anchor.

I don't see Flagg as a full time or even most of the time type of point forward who's constantly bringing the ball up like Lebron/Luka or even an Odom. His passing is very good but I don't think his handle is at that level.

I think in any scenario where he becomes dominant, it's going to be in a Kawhi like fashion where he's an above average athlete, is efficient with his movement, beats defenders to the spot, is able to get his shot off whenever it's needed and he shoots with efficiency from all over the floor.

[The Master]

I don't see Flagg as a full time or even most of the time type of point forward who's constantly bringing the ball up like Lebron/Luka or even an Odom. His passing is very good but I don't think his handle is at that level.

I think in any scenario where he becomes dominant, it's going to be in a Kawhi like fashion where he's an above average athlete, is efficient with his movement, beats defenders to the spot, is able to get his shot off whenever it's needed and he shoots with efficiency from all over the floor.

Flagg as a ballhandler/playmaker projects below Doncic/LeBron level and above Kawhi/Tatum/Durant level. Let's put it this way: in Duke he was much better in point forward-esque role than ~secondary playmakers in ideal scenario (Booker, Durant, Tatum) were in similar age. It's hard to guess what is in between, D-Wade level maybe (as a realistic projection)? I don't know.

While I said earlier that Flagg was in pretty decent spot for his playmaking abilities (Duke had elite-elite fit for college basketball), at the same time it's hard to ignore how efficient he was as a passer in this scenario.

[ibraheim718]

I'm not a fan but I've missed once before in over 40 years.