With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!

[tsherkin]

With them taking CMB they are really doubling down on their belief Scottie isn't a non-shooter. I disagree and think he should be a super third option but maybe they're seeing something we're not behind the scenes

I can't imagine what they could be seeing that is so incapable of translating into on-court efficacy in the face of what we know about how shooting development does and doesn't work. Stranger things have happened, but this one is just protracted frustration with a face.

Anyway, we'll see what comes. 4/5 type play seems to be what CMB is aimed at, so we'll see what comes from that, I guess. He's here, so I suppose there's only so much remaining utility to kvetching about it. We need some luck again to get ourselves back in the right direction.

[Ell Curry]

Wouldn't be surprised if they're actually really hoping Scottie can eventually shoot enough to actually play PG (which is why they told him to jack up 3's all last season to get reps) so they can eventually have a Scottie/Dick/Ingram/CMB/Poeltl (or Mogbo) lineup.

That concerns me greatly.

There's a real argument to be made that even Barnes + CMB + 3 good shooters would not be quite enough shooting these days.

[RoteSchroder]

Scottie is really passive, and CMB is far more aggressive (not in a bad way).

I think people see the stats where he scored majority of his points inside, that he was used as a bigman ,and think he was scoring like a center which couldn't be further from the truth. CMB has a bag, this guy was creating his way to the rim, he has a super sweet lay up package, a feathery soft touch, he knows how to draw contact and get fouls. He also has a super underrated mid range game, and I do feel like the 3 point comes along with him. He is defense first, but his scoring game is really underrated, and hes going to be a connective passer at the next level.

I like his scoring potential more than Barnes, who is mostly an opportunistic scorer, and can get passive at times. I do like the fit with each other, and I see thr vision Masai is trying to achieve.

Agreed. My number #1 issue with Barnes is that he doesn't use his body enough to overpower guys. When he first came into the league he looked like a guy who would use that to make his career on offense but has completely gone away from that. CMB, I can't see him playing any other esythsn being a bull who attacks. We need more of those type of personalities.

I also think drafting CMB allows Scottie to spend more time at the 3, where he can use his size to his advantage. For all Scottie's faults, he was badly utilized this past season, I dont think hes a fulltime 4. Scottie has always been his best as a 3.

disagree with Scottie at 3..we moved Siakam so that Scottie could go to his more well-suited position at 4. He's been much better there defensively too.

Scottie's just not a good scorer. Doesn't have a great touch in the paint 5+ feet, doesn't have a good jumper, isn't a good slasher. He can work on these things a la Derozan, but I'd rather him focus on things he's good at and simplify his scoring. 1) be a connector on O, 2) work on catch and shoot, 3) be a cutter/off-ball scorer, 4) exploiting mismatches and occasional on-ball scoring is fine too

Just don't use him like he's LBJ

[tsherkin]

Wouldn't be surprised if they're actually really hoping Scottie can eventually shoot enough to actually play PG (which is why they told him to jack up 3's all last season to get reps) so they can eventually have a Scottie/Dick/Ingram/CMB/Poeltl (or Mogbo) lineup.

That concerns me greatly.

There's a real argument to be made that even Barnes + CMB + 3 good shooters would not be quite enough shooting these days.

Having two crap shooters on your team causes problems, yes. Obviously, you don't need 4 guys to be completely elite at shooting. The spacer big can be just semi-competent from the corners and that'll do it if he's low-usage. Just enough to force the D to pay attention to him and open things up inside. Scottie's problem is broader, it's that he's a bad choice for possession volume overall as a scorer. CMB seems like he'll be better by virtue of aggression and motor, and looks like maybe he'll be better as a screen setter and roll man, all that sort of thing, which makes him a little more palatable in that regard.

At least in theory.

[DelAbbot]

I finally got around to watching CMB scouting videos.

We went through a 52 Loss season for a PJ Tucker / Dollar store Draymond Green

Glaring weaknesses
- Below NBA average vertical AND is undersized at 6'7 for a forward - his outstanding college defensive impacts are going be negatively adjusted in the NBA.
- No range on his shot.
- No post moves, no counter moves, just uses his strong upper torso to create space to get shots off.
- No handle.

Strengths
- Upper body strength holds ground against bigger opponents in the post
- Good lateral quickness on defense
- Good defensive IQ
- Good passing for a big


He is the type of tweener that feasted on college level players and will struggle against NBA level athleticism and skills.

[Agimat]

I finally got around to watching CMB scouting videos.

We went through a 52 Loss season for a PJ Tucker / Dollar store Draymond Green

Glaring weaknesses
- Below NBA average vertical AND is undersized at 6'7 for a forward - his outstanding college defensive impacts are going be negatively adjusted in the NBA.
- No range on his shot.
- No post moves, no counter moves, just uses his strong upper torso to create space to get shots off.
- No handle.

Strengths
- Upper body strength holds ground against bigger opponents in the post
- Good lateral quickness on defense
- Good defensive IQ
- Good passing for a big


He is the type of tweener that feasted on college level players and will struggle against NBA level athleticism and skills.

cmon man lol

[Ell Curry]

That concerns me greatly.

There's a real argument to be made that even Barnes + CMB + 3 good shooters would not be quite enough shooting these days.

Having two crap shooters on your team causes problems, yes. Obviously, you don't need 4 guys to be completely elite at shooting. The spacer big can be just semi-competent from the corners and that'll do it if he's low-usage. Just enough to force the D to pay attention to him and open things up inside. Scottie's problem is broader, it's that he's a bad choice for possession volume overall as a scorer. CMB seems like he'll be better by virtue of aggression and motor, and looks like maybe he'll be better as a screen setter and roll man, all that sort of thing, which makes him a little more palatable in that regard.

At least in theory.

I just meant since we won the title, the list of non-shooters on title teams consists of (finals numbers):

Kevon Looney + Hartenstein + Howard at center getting 22, 19 and 12 minutes a game.

Then there's Gary Payton II getting like 18 mins a game who isn't much of a shooter.

unless I'm missing somebody.

So that's Poeltl or CMB for us. Probably not both.

It might not work, but at the very least it feels like Poeltl and CMB should be splitting time at center. It does make some sense to have a true 7 footer and a switchier option in CMB depending on the matchup.

Barnes and Ingram are the forwards. Barnes simply has to shoot better. Agbaji can be a solid backup 3. If Mogbo or CMB can stick a corner 3 they can be Barnes' backup at the 4, if not we can maybe slide Agbaji over.

Shooting guard, we have Walter and Gradey fighting it out. Probably still the top need for next year if we're in the lottery again just based on neither guy projecting as a starting level NBA player on a contender, though I do like the eye test with Walter.

Quickley at PG, sort of okay at everything, but obviously not going to conduct an offence like a star lead guard. I'm definitely not sold on Shead as more than a solid 3rd PG.

It just feels like we're in a spot where we need a magical wing/big guard who can run the O/attract doubles like the stars do on contenders, but also hit 3s and defend the other team's best player. That's not a guy who exists. Tatum or SGA I guess are the closest right now? I'm depressed.

CMB makes logical sense because you have to pick the BPA, you can always make trades, but I just don't see how the hell we're gonna score the ball.

[tsherkin]

I just meant since we won the title, the list of non-shooters on title teams consists of (finals numbers):

Kevon Looney + Hartenstein + Howard at center getting 22, 19 and 12 minutes a game.

Then there's Gary Payton II getting like 18 mins a game who isn't much of a shooter.

GPII shot 35.8% from 3 in the RS of the 2022 title run, and over 53% during the postseason, FWIW. Low volume in both cases, less than 1.5 3PA/g, but still. He shot well enough to be a threat.

So that's Poeltl or CMB for us. Probably not both.

Yes, both would be a problem. Doubly so if we add Barnes on top of that.

It might not work, but at the very least it feels like Poeltl and CMB should be splitting time at center. It does make some sense to have a true 7 footer and a switchier option in CMB depending on the matchup.

We don't really need a 7-footer. A 6'10, 6'11 guy would be nice. Poeltl works out pretty well, it'd just be nicer to have someone who provides more rim protection and lob threat, and somehow miraculously can stick a corner 3 and his FTs. Not that I'm greedy or anything. xD

Barnes simply has to shoot better.

He likely won't. I'm not holding my breath waiting for him to stop sucking from 3.

It just feels like we're in a spot where we need a magical wing/big guard who can run the O/attract doubles like the stars do on contenders, but also hit 3s and defend the other team's best player. That's not a guy who exists. Tatum or SGA I guess are the closest right now? I'm depressed.

I mean, we can be good without a superstar, we just need to be realistic about team ceiling in that absence, that's all.

[MEDIC]

Marcus Smart with hops

[Ell Curry]

I just meant since we won the title, the list of non-shooters on title teams consists of (finals numbers):

Kevon Looney + Hartenstein + Howard at center getting 22, 19 and 12 minutes a game.

Then there's Gary Payton II getting like 18 mins a game who isn't much of a shooter.

GPII shot 35.8% from 3 in the RS of the 2022 title run, and over 53% during the postseason, FWIW. Low volume in both cases, less than 1.5 3PA/g, but still. He shot well enough to be a threat.

So that's Poeltl or CMB for us. Probably not both.

Yes, both would be a problem. Doubly so if we add Barnes on top of that.

It might not work, but at the very least it feels like Poeltl and CMB should be splitting time at center. It does make some sense to have a true 7 footer and a switchier option in CMB depending on the matchup.

We don't really need a 7-footer. A 6'10, 6'11 guy would be nice. Poeltl works out pretty well, it'd just be nicer to have someone who provides more rim protection and lob threat, and somehow miraculously can stick a corner 3 and his FTs. Not that I'm greedy or anything. xD

Barnes simply has to shoot better.

He likely won't. I'm not holding my breath waiting for him to stop sucking from 3.

It just feels like we're in a spot where we need a magical wing/big guard who can run the O/attract doubles like the stars do on contenders, but also hit 3s and defend the other team's best player. That's not a guy who exists. Tatum or SGA I guess are the closest right now? I'm depressed.

I mean, we can be good without a superstar, we just need to be realistic about team ceiling in that absence, that's all.

Agree with all that but my vague memory is teams just left Payton alone back then, just happy a possession didn't end in a Curry, Klay or Poole 3 or an easy bucket inside.

I think a team can be good without a superstar, but they probably need to have even more shooting and defence in that case. I see us as a bad (not bottom 5 but bottom 10 if Quickley and Ingram are healthy) shooting team and a solid defensive one, but not a top 5 and probably not a top 10 one.

[SFour]

I finally got around to watching CMB scouting videos.

We went through a 52 Loss season for a PJ Tucker / Dollar store Draymond Green

Glaring weaknesses
- Below NBA average vertical AND is undersized at 6'7 for a forward - his outstanding college defensive impacts are going be negatively adjusted in the NBA.
- No range on his shot.
- No post moves, no counter moves, just uses his strong upper torso to create space to get shots off.
- No handle.

Strengths
- Upper body strength holds ground against bigger opponents in the post
- Good lateral quickness on defense
- Good defensive IQ
- Good passing for a big


He is the type of tweener that feasted on college level players and will struggle against NBA level athleticism and skills.

who would you take with the 9th pick, I don't know if you already posted it....but you should put it out so it's on record.

[DelAbbot]

I finally got around to watching CMB scouting videos.

We went through a 52 Loss season for a PJ Tucker / Dollar store Draymond Green

Glaring weaknesses
- Below NBA average vertical AND is undersized at 6'7 for a forward - his outstanding college defensive impacts are going be negatively adjusted in the NBA.
- No range on his shot.
- No post moves, no counter moves, just uses his strong upper torso to create space to get shots off.
- No handle.

Strengths
- Upper body strength holds ground against bigger opponents in the post
- Good lateral quickness on defense
- Good defensive IQ
- Good passing for a big


He is the type of tweener that feasted on college level players and will struggle against NBA level athleticism and skills.

who would you take with the 9th pick, I don't know if you already posted it....but you should put it out so it's on record.

I never posted any. I'm simply pointing out what I see when watching CMB college videos. If you can argue why any of my points about CMB are invalid, I welcome it.

[RaptorPride]

I finally got around to watching CMB scouting videos.

We went through a 52 Loss season for a PJ Tucker / Dollar store Draymond Green

Glaring weaknesses
- Below NBA average vertical AND is undersized at 6'7 for a forward - his outstanding college defensive impacts are going be negatively adjusted in the NBA.
- No range on his shot.
- No post moves, no counter moves, just uses his strong upper torso to create space to get shots off.
- No handle.

Strengths
- Upper body strength holds ground against bigger opponents in the post
- Good lateral quickness on defense
- Good defensive IQ
- Good passing for a big


He is the type of tweener that feasted on college level players and will struggle against NBA level athleticism and skills.

who would you take with the 9th pick, I don't know if you already posted it....but you should put it out so it's on record.

I never posted any. I'm simply pointing out what I see when watching CMB college videos. If you can argue why any of my points about CMB are invalid, I welcome it.

Whos a player you can compare him to that didn't pan out?

[SFour]

I finally got around to watching CMB scouting videos.

We went through a 52 Loss season for a PJ Tucker / Dollar store Draymond Green

Glaring weaknesses
- Below NBA average vertical AND is undersized at 6'7 for a forward - his outstanding college defensive impacts are going be negatively adjusted in the NBA.
- No range on his shot.
- No post moves, no counter moves, just uses his strong upper torso to create space to get shots off.
- No handle.

Strengths
- Upper body strength holds ground against bigger opponents in the post
- Good lateral quickness on defense
- Good defensive IQ
- Good passing for a big


He is the type of tweener that feasted on college level players and will struggle against NBA level athleticism and skills.

who would you take with the 9th pick, I don't know if you already posted it....but you should put it out so it's on record.

I never posted any. I'm simply pointing out what I see when watching CMB college videos. If you can argue why any of my points about CMB are invalid, I welcome it.

you should post it....anyone can look like a genius with the power of hindsight

[Stromile12]

I'm waiting to post after their rookie year on who I would've taken with #9

[DelAbbot]

Ron Harper Jr.

Position: Small Forward and Power Forward ▪ Shoots: Right

6-6, 245lb (198cm, 111kg)

I thought CMB's physique looks familiar - Masai definitely has a thing for this prototype

[DelAbbot]

who would you take with the 9th pick, I don't know if you already posted it....but you should put it out so it's on record.

I never posted any. I'm simply pointing out what I see when watching CMB college videos. If you can argue why any of my points about CMB are invalid, I welcome it.

Whos a player you can compare him to that didn't pan out?

What's your comparison for CMB as an upside using an NBA player in the past 20 years?

[VanWest82]

I never posted any. I'm simply pointing out what I see when watching CMB college videos. If you can argue why any of my points about CMB are invalid, I welcome it.

Whos a player you can compare him to that didn't pan out?

What's your comparison for CMB as an upside using an NBA player in the past 20 years?

I've been thinking about this for a couple months now and I'm pretty confident that there is no good comparison to CMB. He's a total outlier. One of one. Perhaps he won't make it but I don't think it's because his skillset is an obvious yes or no go based on history.

[RaptorPride]

I never posted any. I'm simply pointing out what I see when watching CMB college videos. If you can argue why any of my points about CMB are invalid, I welcome it.

Whos a player you can compare him to that didn't pan out?

What's your comparison for CMB as an upside using an NBA player in the past 20 years?

Its hard he is a very unique player and I don't think there's any direct comparison for him. Lets say he is Sabonis with Kawhi style defence and Randels ability to attack the basket and draw fouls. And if developed right can play 3, 4 and 5.

[S.W.A.N]

I finally got around to watching CMB scouting videos.

We went through a 52 Loss season for a PJ Tucker / Dollar store Draymond Green

Glaring weaknesses
- Below NBA average vertical AND is undersized at 6'7 for a forward - his outstanding college defensive impacts are going be negatively adjusted in the NBA.
- No range on his shot.
- No post moves, no counter moves, just uses his strong upper torso to create space to get shots off.
- No handle.

Strengths
- Upper body strength holds ground against bigger opponents in the post
- Good lateral quickness on defense
- Good defensive IQ
- Good passing for a big


He is the type of tweener that feasted on college level players and will struggle against NBA level athleticism and skills.

who would you take with the 9th pick, I don't know if you already posted it....but you should put it out so it's on record.

I never posted any. I'm simply pointing out what I see when watching CMB college videos. If you can argue why any of my points about CMB are invalid, I welcome it.

Negative spin everywhere here.

6'8 in shoes. 7 foot reach
29.5 and 34.5 vert (Average or slightly above average vert. Definitely not Below Average)

One of the best players in college at the rim despite playing on a team that had no outside shooting. Aka he's got touch.

If you are going to look for negatives stick the ones that are actually real. He's got no outside shot. He's too small to be a C. That is it.