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Identity crisis?

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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#741 » by shrink » Thu Jun 5, 2025 12:35 am

Klomp wrote:
Baseline81 wrote:Hmm... sounds a lot like my reasoning as to why Towns shouldn't have been traded. I specifically recall talking about the chemistry between the team.

Fair. However, the Towns contract just made things very difficult in the new NBA landscape. I think they knew they could get Gobert to decline his player option and take a smaller cap number. I think the 3 years, $171 million was staring them in the face. The value they got back in the trade might not have been "plus value" but it wasn't "negative value".

And I don't think simply not making the trade would have been the difference between making the Finals or not. In fact, I wouldn't have been surprised by an earlier exit, even if there were a few more regular season wins. I'd also say the team chemistry this year was pretty good, especially after the early season hiccups. That's just a product of being an Ant-led team.

I think you are both right. Trading KAT disrupted our team chemistry, and blew up the game plan of the draft and free agency. With that chemistry, we would have certainly won more games in the first half of the regular season. I don’t know though if that would have made us good enough to beat OKC, and Randle was certainly productive the first two rounds.
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#742 » by Guest84 » Thu Jun 5, 2025 4:59 am

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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#743 » by frankenwolf » Thu Jun 5, 2025 6:51 pm

Guest84 wrote:https://dunkingwithwolves.com/wolves-dream-offseason-move-tom-thibodeau


Hell No. Sure, he may a defensive genius, but can he work as an assistant now under Finch? I don't think they would mesh very well.
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#744 » by BlacJacMac » Thu Jun 5, 2025 7:09 pm

frankenwolf wrote:
Guest84 wrote:https://dunkingwithwolves.com/wolves-dream-offseason-move-tom-thibodeau


Hell No. Sure, he may a defensive genius, but can he work as an assistant now under Finch? I don't think they would mesh very well.


The whole thing is built on faulty reasoning.

Impressively, the Wolves have been a top 10 defense over the past three seasons. It would be interesting to see what schemes Thibs would implement around Rudy Gobert's stellar rim protection, along with the versatility of Jaden McDaniels and Anthony Edwards.

Thibodeau's knack for defense would surely bring the best out of this talented group. Despite being a top 10 defense over the past three years, Minnesota's defense dropped from the best in the league in 2023-24 to the sixth-best this past season. Thibs' presence could help the Wolves return to the top three.


Knicks under Thibs:
2020-21: 3rd
2021-22: 11th
2022-23: 19th
2023-24: 10th
2024-25: 14th

There is no reason to think Thibs would be an improvement on defense in the mid 2020s NBA.
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Identity crisis? 

Post#745 » by minimus » Tue Jun 10, 2025 7:09 pm

I’m wondering which players from the current group would actually look good against Indiana’s system. TJ and Jaylen Clark stand out for sure:



Then I started thinking about Edwards — he’s not exactly a quick decision-maker or a natural fast break initiator. But then I remembered how on fire DDV was last year against Indiana… and now he suddenly looks pretty “meh” in Minnesota:


However Ant is:
- a rhythm scorer who likes to hold, size up, and attack when he’s ready.
- less of a “react instantly” player — think Kawhi, not Haliburton.
- transition finisher, not initiator. Doesn’t process blitz decisions instantly.

He’d struggle as a decision-maker in pace system — but he’d still cook in transition off others’ actions.

Which brings me back to the original point: team identity. I wonder if an OKC–Indiana Finals run might influence Connelly’s vision. Could it trigger a shift away from the two-big lineup, and more toward a fast, pace-and-space system?
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#746 » by Klomp » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:57 pm

minimus wrote:Which brings me back to the original point: team identity. I wonder if an OKC–Indiana Finals run might influence Connelly’s vision. Could it trigger a shift away from the two-big lineup, and more toward a fast, pace-and-space system?

This is something I have been weighing as well
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#747 » by minimus » Thu Jun 12, 2025 8:29 am

Klomp wrote:
minimus wrote:Which brings me back to the original point: team identity. I wonder if an OKC–Indiana Finals run might influence Connelly’s vision. Could it trigger a shift away from the two-big lineup, and more toward a fast, pace-and-space system?

This is something I have been weighing as well


I think there are two ways to look at it.

First, you can see both Randle and Reid as either big wings or hybrid bigs, depending on lineup context.

Second, you build around combinations — lineup packages that work both offensively and defensively. If you go that route, then the Randle vs. Reid dilemma becomes more nuanced. Both are unique players with contrasting offensive profiles but similar defensive limitations:
- Randle is a physical post-up threat and slasher. He enjoys contact, can make high-level kick-out passes, and hits mid-range shots. However, he lacks discipline and positional awareness as a weakside defender and doesn’t consistently box out. When engaged, he can hold his ground in one-on-one defense.
- Reid is a stretch four who can drive and attack closeouts. He also struggles with defensive discipline and positional awareness, and like Randle, doesn’t always box out. But when engaged, he’s a capable one-on-one defender. He avoids mid-range shots entirely.

In my view, both are at their best when surrounded by elite defenders like Gobert, McDaniels, NAW, and DDV. That’s because:
- Gobert provides rim protection and rebounding.
- McDaniels and NAW handle point-of-attack defense.
- DDV, while not a PoA guy, has been excellent as a roamer and backline defender:

Read on Twitter

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So essentially, every major defensive limitation of Randle and Reid is compensated for by teammates:
- Lacks rebounding? Gobert + improved McDaniels
- Lacks space defense? McDaniels, NAW, and (hopefully) Clark
- Lacks rim protection? Gobert, McDaniels, and even DDV
- Lacks defensive awareness? Gobert, McDaniels, and DDV can clean up mistakes

Offensively, both players offer key ingredients that enable lineup functionality:
- Reid brings elite 3PT shooting and exceptional mobility/ball-handling for a big.
- Randle is too powerful for wings, and too mobile and skilled for most bigs. He collapses defenses with his slashing and post work.

Simplified view:
- Take Reid out of the rotation → you lose essential floor spacing; lineups struggle to generate easy offense.
- Take Randle out → you lose slashing, post-up gravity, and drive-and-kick creation.

So it may even make sense to keep both, despite their defensive flaws — because offensive-minded players are harder and more expensive to replace. Defensive glue guys are often cheaper and easier to plug in.

But that raises the key question:

How do you improve this roster if you keep both Randle and Reid?

There are two obvious paths:

1. Improve transition offense/defense

MIN was among the worst in both categories. Randle and Reid don’t run, so you need to surround them with high-motor wings and guards who do.

2. Add more low-profile, high-IQ, high-effort players

Think “Kyle Anderson archetypes”: players who can rebound, pass, defend multiple positions, and don’t need the ball.

2025 Draft Targets Who Fit

If we keep one of Randle or Reid, here are some names to watch:
- Collin Murray-Boyles (CMB) – A potential Kyle Anderson replacement next to Reid. Can rebound, pass, and defend multiple positions.
- Fleming – A Jabari Smith Jr.-type stretch 4/5 who could work well next to Randle.
- Sorber / Niederhauser / Beringer – All project as future Gobert replacements with varying upside.
- Raynaud / Yang / Kalkbrenner – True stretch-5 options who could complement the offense in different ways.

Having picks #17 and #31 in 2025 gives Connelly real flexibility here.

P.S. I still struggle to categorize Wolf, Asa Newell, and Essengue. They don’t slot cleanly into any of these roles — might need more context to evaluate their fit.
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#748 » by frankenwolf » Thu Jun 12, 2025 12:46 pm

minimus wrote:Which brings me back to the original point: team identity. I wonder if an OKC–Indiana Finals run might influence Connelly’s vision. Could it trigger a shift away from the two-big lineup, and more toward a fast, pace-and-space system?


The fast pace and space is what I think Finch really wants to run. He has been limited by the offensive offense of Gobert. If we could get a Turner/Holmgren/Wembanyama type of C, his offense would run better. Yes, trading Gobert would lower our defensive rating, but the potential is still there to be a top 10 defense, if everyone just buys into it totally. Having a top 10 defense and offense is a good way to make it to the playoffs and finals.
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#749 » by Klomp » Thu Jun 12, 2025 6:34 pm

frankenwolf wrote:
minimus wrote:Which brings me back to the original point: team identity. I wonder if an OKC–Indiana Finals run might influence Connelly’s vision. Could it trigger a shift away from the two-big lineup, and more toward a fast, pace-and-space system?


The fast pace and space is what I think Finch really wants to run. He has been limited by the offensive offense of Gobert. If we could get a Turner/Holmgren/Wembanyama type of C, his offense would run better. Yes, trading Gobert would lower our defensive rating, but the potential is still there to be a top 10 defense, if everyone just buys into it totally. Having a top 10 defense and offense is a good way to make it to the playoffs and finals.

It's easy to forget, but Finch was once at Ground Zero for when the Rockets began making their move to pace and space. This wasn't the extreme Rockets that played Covington at C, but they rotated through traditional Cs including Howard, Asik, Capela and more.
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#750 » by minimus » Wed Jun 18, 2025 8:20 am

shrink wrote:It’s a lot easier, and wiser, for Chris Finch to say this instead of Tim Connelly. “Absolutely” was a strong word choice!

If this is true, we really need Gobert, who has good numbers with both. Randle-Naz pairings have not been good.


I interpret these pairing stats a bit differently:

This postseason, Gobert is averaging a career-low 27.4 MPG. To me, that’s a sign that unlike Snyder in Utah, Finch is actively managing Gobert’s strengths and weaknesses. He’s not forcing rigid lineups — he’s adapting.

I honestly don’t care too much about regular season metrics here. But I do think it’s a valid question to ask: What if we replace Gobert’s elite — but matchup-limited — production with a more versatile big? Maybe someone who doesn’t have the same DPOY-level rim protection, but who brings more balance in terms of foundational skills?

One of the biggest drop-offs whenever Gobert sits is screen quality. Just watch this clip:

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In Game 4, MIN made a key adjustment: they attacked OKC’s tendency to collapse into the paint and leave the corner three open. But it was up to Reid and others to make those actions work through off-ball screening and timing:

Read on Twitter

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And every time Gobert manages to make a short-roll pass, it usually results in a wide-open 3PT shot:

Read on Twitter


So when we talk about potentially replacing Gobert, I’m not asking for a unicorn. I just want a big who can:
- box out consistently
- set solid, physical screens
- not foul on every pump fake
- catch and make passes
- finish reliably around the basket in at least one way
- provide some rim protection and stay competent in space defensively

That might sound like a big ask, but that’s exactly what Hartenstein gives OKC. And it’s a huge reason why their system flows.

P.S. My absolute pipe dream: developing someone like Thomas Sorber into a Bam Adebayo-type DPOY anchor. Yes, that’s ambitious. But that’s the mold that could elevate our two-big experiment into something sustainable long-term.
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#751 » by minimus » Wed Jun 25, 2025 2:38 pm

There’s a pretty interesting topic on Reddit: "What’s the next team exploit or solution?" Examples included GSW’s off-ball screening and OKC’s ballhawking perimeter defense. The OP is basically asking: What’s the next tactical evolution offenses and defenses will need to counter trends like OKC’s pressure-heavy style?

For the Timberwolves, my first thought is: Better usage of corner threes.

OKC’s ball pressure is only effective when the space around Edwards isn’t fully optimized. The problem for MIN is roster fit:
- McDaniels is often the open corner shooter, but he’s among the worst on the team from that spot.
- Conley, by contrast, is deadly from the corner — but he’s 38 and can’t carry a high-usage load in the playoffs.
- Randle is not a natural shooter

It’s not a coincidence that MIN looked unstoppable when Conley was nailing those corner 3s last postseason.


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Can Rob Dillingham help? Rob has the shiftiness and creativity to draw help and kick. The question is whether:
- He can consistently hit the corner shooter in the shooting pocket
- He can shoot well enough himself to stay on the court against playoff defenses



Trade target: Cameron Johnson. The obvious answer used to be KD, but now I think TC should explore Cameron Johnson from Brooklyn. He’s exactly the kind of big wing movement shooter and passer this team needs.



Draft option 1: Egor Demin. In this draft class, Egor Demin is probably the only guy who can consistently hit corner shooters with pace, accuracy, and timing — while also being able to feed bigs in motion.



Draft option 2: Cedric Coward. I feel like he can be developed into elite 3pt shooter, play finisher


To sup mup: To counter OKC-type defenses long-term, MIN should look to:
- Improve corner 3 usage through smarter spacing and personnel
- Add a reliable secondary ballhandler (Dillingham or Demin?)
- Acquire a big wing shooter like Cam Johnson to stretch the floor and pass on the move
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#752 » by minimus » Thu Jun 26, 2025 8:19 am

- How fast can Beringer/McDaniels/TSJ/Ant/Dillingham lineup play?
- Yes!

- Can you add more size, defense and shooting?
- Yes! Beringer/Fleming/McDaniels/Ant/Dillingham!
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#753 » by minimus » Fri Jun 27, 2025 8:17 am

Image

I wonder if playing big AND fast is the vision that our FO and coaching staff have to be successful in current NBA

P.S. I even made a mentoring scheme for you guys!
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#754 » by Battletrigger » Fri Jun 27, 2025 10:31 am

minimus wrote:Image

I wonder if playing big AND fast is the vision that our FO and coaching staff have to be successful in current NBA

P.S. I even made a mentoring scheme for you guys!


Who from below has the killer mentality?
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#755 » by minimus » Fri Jun 27, 2025 7:14 pm

Battletrigger wrote:Who from below has the killer mentality?


Killer mentality is overrated. I prefer big fundamentals guys who plays С position.
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#756 » by minimus » Fri Jun 27, 2025 7:22 pm

I feel like nowadays NBA fans are spoiled by watching guys like Sabonis and Jokic doing things that bigs normally don’t do: playmaking like guards.

Here are three main things I want to see Beringer and Zikarsky develop over the next few years:

Understanding of angles, timing, and positioning. Here are some things that could add an entirely new dimension for MIN once Beringer and Zikarsky understand angles, timing, and positioning:


1. Pick-and-Roll (Empty Side and High PnR)
- Angles: Set screens at the right angle so the guard can turn the corner.
- Timing: Don’t slip too early. Wait for the guard to use the screen.
- Positioning: Roll to open space, make yourself a big target.

Result: Easy lobs, dunks, fouls drawn.

2. Dunker Spot Play
- Positioning: Stay low on baseline, behind the help defense.
- Timing: Cut when your man helps on a drive.
- Angles: Move to where the ballhandler can see you.
- Result: Easy dunks and layups.

3. Short Roll Passing
- Positioning: Catch around the foul line or just inside.
- Timing: Wait for the defense to trap or hedge before slipping.
- Angles: Deliver simple passes to open shooters or cutters.
- Result: Punish aggressive defenses.

4. DHO (Dribble Hand-Off) Play
- Angles: Shield the ball with your body so the defender can’t reach.
- Timing: Hand it off just as the guard arrives to maximize separation.
- Positioning: Stay high enough to force the defense to chase over.
- Result: Guards get clean looks or driving lanes.


5. Finishing Around the Rim
- Positioning: Use your size to seal defenders.
- Timing: Go up strong immediately or with a power dribble.
- Angles: Use the backboard well on reverses and layups.
- Result: High-percentage shots, drawn fouls.

6. Defensive Pick-and-Roll
- Angles: In drop coverage, stay between ballhandler and rim.
- Timing: Retreat without giving up a layup.
- Positioning: Keep your body big to contest shots.
- Result: Force tough floaters or mid-range jumpers.

7. Help Defense and Rotations
- Positioning: Be ready early—don’t watch the ball.
- Timing: Rotate as the pass is thrown, not after.
- Angles: Take away direct paths to the rim.
- Result: Block shots, force kick-outs.

To sum up:
- Angles: Make the offense/defense easier by using the right angles.
- Timing: Don’t rush. Wait for the right moment.
- Positioning: Always be in the best spot to help teammates or finish plays.
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#757 » by Battletrigger » Fri Jun 27, 2025 10:51 pm

minimus wrote:
Battletrigger wrote:Who from below has the killer mentality?


Killer mentality is overrated. I prefer big fundamentals guys who plays С position.


If you say so.
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#758 » by minimus » Sat Jun 28, 2025 6:44 am

Battletrigger wrote:
minimus wrote:
Battletrigger wrote:Who from below has the killer mentality?


Killer mentality is overrated. I prefer big fundamentals guys who plays С position.


If you say so.

I do, brother
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#759 » by minimus » Wed Jul 2, 2025 6:46 am

Read on Twitter


Do MIN have right guys to make play from mid range?
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Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#760 » by BlacJacMac » Wed Jul 2, 2025 3:45 pm

minimus wrote:
Read on Twitter


Do MIN have right guys to make play from mid range?


Jaden is deadly from the midrange.

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