With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!

[Tha Cynic]

With them taking CMB they are really doubling down on their belief Scottie isn't a non-shooter. I disagree and think he should be a super third option but maybe they're seeing something we're not behind the scenes

I can't imagine what they could be seeing that is so incapable of translating into on-court efficacy in the face of what we know about how shooting development does and doesn't work. Stranger things have happened, but this one is just protracted frustration with a face.

Anyway, we'll see what comes. 4/5 type play seems to be what CMB is aimed at, so we'll see what comes from that, I guess. He's here, so I suppose there's only so much remaining utility to kvetching about it. We need some luck again to get ourselves back in the right direction.

Who should they have drafted?

You guys keep focusing on Barnes’ shooting and their biggest acquisition going into next season is Ingram as primary scorer. Do you think our front office never considered that Barnes may never become a good shooter when they drafted him?

Then there were complaints that they’re somehow grabbing players to support Barnes to the detriment to the team when they went out and grabbed CMB who is the exact opposite of a player you would conventionally choose if you were building around Barnes.

At this stage I think some of you are just cranky and complaining for the sake or it lol. Barnes is a plus player and a very good player. They don’t have a team built as if he’s their #1 scorer. He has already met his expectations and achieved more than most would have probably expected when he was first drafted and he’s actually freed up to focus more on defense this year while being selective with his scoring.

It’s clear the Raptors are focusing on defense and aggressive players that who go hard at the opponent. Ingram, IQ, Dick, Battle, Agbaji, and Walter if he keeps progressing can all shoot. The roster is fine.

If people want to know how Masai likes to build his rosters, go watch some Raptors vs Heat games over the last several years.

[right between the eyes]

Have they announced when the presser will be?

[MEDIC]

LOL PJ Tucker? That dude is 6'4" and totally different offensive game (or that PJ can't do anything on offence other than stand in the corner and shoot). The comparison is terrible.

I think he was just talking about defensively but that PJ has a three. At least I hope so.

I don't see the defensive comparison. PJ was great on-ball defender. CMB is good both on and off-ball. His off-ball rotations are fantastic and he's more athletic than PJ was, with a stronger base to guard centers. PJ was too short to guard centers too.

Tucker was mostly an effort player who could eventually hit the 3. He wasn't an elite finisher like CMB is. He also wasn't a high IQ/ hub type like CMB is.

Other than "undersized" and "strong" and "good defender", they aren't very much alike.

[OakleyDokely]

What I don't get is that Queen gets the high upside offensive player rep yet CBM posted comparable or better numbers across the board, he did it much more efficiently, in a tougher conference on a weaker team. And they're basically the same age, with comparable length.

[GLF]

With them taking CMB they are really doubling down on their belief Scottie isn't a non-shooter. I disagree and think he should be a super third option but maybe they're seeing something we're not behind the scenes

I can't imagine what they could be seeing that is so incapable of translating into on-court efficacy in the face of what we know about how shooting development does and doesn't work. Stranger things have happened, but this one is just protracted frustration with a face.

Anyway, we'll see what comes. 4/5 type play seems to be what CMB is aimed at, so we'll see what comes from that, I guess. He's here, so I suppose there's only so much remaining utility to kvetching about it. We need some luck again to get ourselves back in the right direction.

Who should they have drafted?

You guys keep focusing on his shooting and their biggest acquisition going into next season is Ingram as primary scorer.

Then there were complaints that they’re somehow grabbing players to support Barnes to the detriment to the team when they went out and grabbed CMB who is the exact opposite of a player you would conventionally choose if you were building around Barnes.

At this stage I think some of you are just cranky and complaining for the sake or it lol. Barnes is a plus player and a very good player. They don’t have a team built as if he’s their #1 scorer. He has already met his expectations and achieved more than most would have probably expected when he was first drafted and he’s actually freed up to focus more on defense this year while being selective with his scoring.

It’s clear the Raptors are focusing on defense and aggressive players that who go hard at the opponent. Ingram, IQ, Dick, Battle, Agbaji, and Walter if he keeps progressing can all shoot. The roster is fine.

Thank you! Even if we drafted a rookie who can shoot it’s not guaranteed that rookie will hit shots in their first year. Look at what happened with Gradey. Also rookies are usually net negatives anyway. A rookie shooter was not going to save this team, so why people are acting like the sky is falling bc the rookie can’t shoot is beyond me. Especially since it’s not like he can’t score at all.

The funny part is yes you can never have too much shooting and we can use more, but we also could use defence as well. Especially a player who can guard big wings and forwards, bc Scottie was the only player we had who could do that and it would take him away from his best skill on defence which is being the backline sweeper/free safety type defender. Well Mogbo as well but he’s literally a 0 level scorer at this point so you can’t really play him without him tanking your offence really bad. CMB is not an 0 level scorer, he just can’t shoot 3s. Even his midrange isn’t bad.

Everyone stays crying about how our starting lineup has no defenders and how bad and worrisome that is, well now we bring in a bunch of defenders and people are mad. I’ve accepted people will just forever be mad and complaining on this board no matter what lol.

[GLF]

What I don't get is that Queen gets the high upside offensive player rep yet CBM posted comparable or better numbers across the board, he did it much more efficiently, in a tougher conference on a weaker team. And they're basically the same age, with comparable length.

I’ve been asking myself this question for a while. It has always confused me. And CMB is a much better defender lol.

[disoblige]

What I don't get is that Queen gets the high upside offensive player rep yet CBM posted comparable or better numbers across the board, he did it much more efficiently, in a tougher conference on a weaker team. And they're basically the same age, with comparable length.

I’ve been asking myself this question for a while. It has always confused me. And CMB is a much better defender lol.

Because you guys are overhyping his offense when many people/scouts, including nbdraft.net, believes his "current" offensive skills wont translate in the nba level.

example: https://youtu.be/gZMXdk62cSs?si=e2N3DUh7Ds6PVRYq&t=211

[traps#10]

Maybe Masai knew he was leaving and didn’t want the Raptors to draft Khaman Maluach lol

[StopitLeo]

I finally got around to watching CMB scouting videos.

We went through a 52 Loss season for a PJ Tucker / Dollar store Draymond Green

Glaring weaknesses
- Below NBA average vertical AND is undersized at 6'7 for a forward - his outstanding college defensive impacts are going be negatively adjusted in the NBA.
- No range on his shot.
- No post moves, no counter moves, just uses his strong upper torso to create space to get shots off.
- No handle.

Strengths
- Upper body strength holds ground against bigger opponents in the post
- Good lateral quickness on defense
- Good defensive IQ
- Good passing for a big


He is the type of tweener that feasted on college level players and will struggle against NBA level athleticism and skills.

You're literally basing your opinion on scouting videos, you've said as much, and you're trashing the pick comparing him to PJ Tucker/Dollar store Draymond. Laughable.

PJ Tucker made his career hitting corner 3's, and being a lockdown defender. That doesn't describe CMB at all. Dollar store Draymond? I get you don't like the pick, but get more creative here.

It’s worth remembering that Tucker didn’t come into the league being able to shoot. He was cut and developed his 3 point shot overseas before coming back to the NBA.

I don’t see any reason CMB can’t improve his shooting. The way CMB was talking about working on his shooting says a lot to me. He spoke about really focussing on his mechanics to get comfortable with them. CMB seems to understand that part of the process of improving his shooting is laying down a new foundation, which is uncomfortable, and not just jumping to the results. A lot of players aren’t willing to go through the uncomfortable stage of improving their shot where the results are very poor—these players hope that simply knowing what they need to change will make a difference if they just put up a lot of shots.

I think some people expect way too much from guys picked outside the top 5-6. Finding a rotation player with the 9th pick is a success and anything more is good fortune. CMB’s defense alone should keep him in the league as a role player. His basketball IQ and work ethic gives him the potential to be even better.

[OakleyDokely]

What I don't get is that Queen gets the high upside offensive player rep yet CBM posted comparable or better numbers across the board, he did it much more efficiently, in a tougher conference on a weaker team. And they're basically the same age, with comparable length.

I’ve been asking myself this question for a while. It has always confused me. And CMB is a much better defender lol.

Queen played in the SEC on a 12-20 team, Queen played in the Big Ten on a 27-9 team. Boyles is about half a year younger than Queen.

CMB: 30.6 MIN, 16.8 PPG, 2.4 AST, 2.2 ORB, .586 FG, .265 3PT, .707 FT, .630 TS, 3.1 OFF WS, 6.9 OFF BPM, 26.7 USG
DQ: 30.4 MIN, 16.5 PPG, 1.9 AST, 2.3 ORB, .526 FG, .200 3PT, .766 FT, .591 TS, 3.1 OFF WS, 5.1 OFF BPM, 26.6 USG

[OakleyDokely]

What I don't get is that Queen gets the high upside offensive player rep yet CBM posted comparable or better numbers across the board, he did it much more efficiently, in a tougher conference on a weaker team. And they're basically the same age, with comparable length.

I’ve been asking myself this question for a while. It has always confused me. And CMB is a much better defender lol.

Because you guys are overhyping his offense when many people/scouts, including nbdraft.net, believes his "current" offensive skills wont translate in the nba level.

example: https://youtu.be/gZMXdk62cSs?si=e2N3DUh7Ds6PVRYq&t=211

nbadraft.net?

lol

[disoblige]

I’ve been asking myself this question for a while. It has always confused me. And CMB is a much better defender lol.

Because you guys are overhyping his offense when many people/scouts, including nbdraft.net, believes his "current" offensive skills wont translate in the nba level.

example: https://youtu.be/gZMXdk62cSs?si=e2N3DUh7Ds6PVRYq&t=211

nbadraft.net?

lol

Pretty sure other scouting sites as well and they watch more vids than average random posters in realgm. Bobby clearly mentioned we drafted Boyles for his defensive upside. Not because "CMB will be a better scorer than Scottie, even without the jumpshot."

[OakleyDokely]

Because you guys are overhyping his offense when many people/scouts, including nbdraft.net, believes his "current" offensive skills wont translate in the nba level.

example: https://youtu.be/gZMXdk62cSs?si=e2N3DUh7Ds6PVRYq&t=211

nbadraft.net?

lol

Pretty sure other scouting sites as well and they watch more vids than average random posters in realgm. Bobby clearly mentioned we drafted Boyles for his defensive upside. Not because "CMB will be a better scorer than Scottie, even without the jumpshot."

I have no idea what you're quoting, but I posted his numbers compared to Queen.

[tsherkin]

I think the comp falls apart because Lowry was consistently ranked somewhere between 8th and 18th in the regular season by BPM/WARP/VORP, and I believe our highest ranking among current players is Ingram at 50 (and Scottie at 45 (as a rookie).

There was no comparison to fall apart. We didn't have a superstar in those years and we did well. We had a lot of talent, but no superstar. That comment wasn't connected to this present team. We have a lot of work to make ourselves more than a mid-40s win team at the moment.

You can build a pretty good team around a top 10-20 guy if you have enough 3pt shooting and defence, I'm just sure we have don't have enough of the former, and Gradey right now alone is enough to undermine a defensive unit (though he's young, Sam Hauser wasn't a passable defender at his age either).

We are missing a lot of things at the moment, yes. Even with Quick back and BI semi-healthy.

If I told you to build a contender without a top 20 guy, you'd try to throw out 4 3+D guys and one guy who can cook a bit on O. That's just not the approach we're going for, and maybe we haven't been able to because you do have to draft BPA, there's no point in having a team of Agbaji level players even if they do fit the bill of solid defenders who can stick an open 3, that doesn't work, you still need good starting level players. But yeah, I'm low on this team, I just think we'll be very easy to defend.

4 3+D guys wouldn't get you anywhere even with a superstar. There hasn't been a team like that to win a title in recent memory. Even the Bucks had a second guy who scored 20 a night, flirting with 50/40/90, and another All-D guy besides their main star. Two, if you consider BroPez was All-D in 2020 and 2022.

You don't contend seriously without a superstar, but you do still need some level of depth. You can, however, still be good without one. That's all I was saying.

Anyway, contention shouldn't be on our mind right now. There are steps in between. We need to become a perennial playoff team before we worry about even the first thoughts related to the Finals.

[tsherkin]

You guys keep focusing on Barnes’ shooting and their biggest acquisition going into next season is Ingram as primary scorer. Do you think our front office never considered that Barnes may never become a good shooter when they drafted him?

I'm not really sure what they did or didn't consider. And we're coming out of two seasons where we've let him shoot more than he should because we knew we were going to suck, so it's hard to get a bead on what they think. That said, what they think is irrelevant mostly, because it doesn't change the idea that playing CMB and Barnes at the same time is going to be very problematic offensively.

To your point, in the post of mine you quoted, I'm trying to just square away with CMB's presence and then wait and see some what else happens this offseason. There have to be more moves if Masai hasn't lost it.

At this stage I think some of you are just cranky and complaining for the sake or it lol. Barnes is a plus player and a very good player.

"Very good" is a bit much. He's a good defender with significant potential there. He's a bad scorer. He's a decent playmaker, but the value of his playmaking is dubious given that it requires him to be on-ball a little too much. He still needs to become a quality screener. There's a lot going on there. He has potential and some value, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

As you say, we'll have to see HOW the team uses him this year. That will be very telling.

[Psubs]

I feel the same way as when we drafted Poeltl 9th overall.

[Prestige]

So this was Bobby and Tolzman’s pick rather than Masai?

[hyper316]

Masai asked CMB are you good 3 times, maybe Masai knew he was gone

[ItsDanger]

Right now, Queen is a far more dangerous half court, set defense scorer than CMB. Ridiculous. Queen's liability is major defensive questions.

[ishoy123]

Masai asked CMB are you good 3 times, maybe Masai knew he was gone

He did this with Jakobe last year too