Magic Offseason Finances Update

[Magic_Johnny12]

I don't think we can realistically pay Caleb any less, so might as well keep him...he's worth it.

Weltman sounded to me (re: Moe) like discussing an RFA...you want to be here, we want you here, but we're not going to (be able to) pay above market value, so if you want to go drum up offers, we'll examine matching...which might not be the lovey dovey move - but it's realistic, the guy is going to miss much of the season, we don't know what he'll look like upon return (for a while at least) and he's got serious holes in his game and, therefore, value...I just don't see a bidding war developing.

That’s exactly the vibe I got, go get offers we still have bird rights.

The Magic have bird rights on both guys… until they sign someone else for the MLE. Then they don’t.

Correct, once they decline their options and renounce their rights and subsequently sign someone else for the MLE we’re in basically the same position as any other team right?

[RichCollab]

We can commit to signing FA for MLE but sign the contracts in the proper order?

[Knightro]

We can commit to signing FA for MLE but sign the contracts in the proper order?

Yes and no.

They can do some order of operations stuff with the contracts, but if they do decide to use the full MLE, they’re hard capped at the first apron which will significantly limit what they’ll be able to offer Moe.

Basically it boils down to whether or not they have a full MLE target or not. It doesn’t seem like there are many worthy players on the market to get the full $14.1M MLE.

[RichCollab]

We can commit to signing FA for MLE but sign the contracts in the proper order?

Yes and no.

They can do some order of operations stuff with the contracts, but if they do decide to use the full MLE, they’re hard capped at the first apron which will significantly limit what they’ll be able to offer Moe.

Basically it boils down to whether or not they have a full MLE target or not. It doesn’t seem like there are many worthy players on the market to get the full $14.1M MLE.

I don’t think we use the full. How does Birds rights come into this?

[AdamTheGreek]

Apparently Weltman alluded to not retaining Wagner/Houstan last night somewhere. I can’t find it, but my X feed is talking about it. Does anyone know what he said?

Watch on YouTube

It was more like, if Moe doesnt take our 7M contract we wont be able to bring him back

Do not read into any of those comments.
Positive or negative.

[Knightro]

We can commit to signing FA for MLE but sign the contracts in the proper order?

Yes and no.

They can do some order of operations stuff with the contracts, but if they do decide to use the full MLE, they’re hard capped at the first apron which will significantly limit what they’ll be able to offer Moe.

Basically it boils down to whether or not they have a full MLE target or not. It doesn’t seem like there are many worthy players on the market to get the full $14.1M MLE.

I don’t think we use the full. How does Birds rights come into this?

Long story short, if the Magic actually want to use their full MLE, they will have to not only decline Moe's option but they have to either renounce his bird rights (to remove his cap hold) or sign him to a new contract for far less than he makes now.

It's a bit of a complicated situation to bring Moe back and also make a full MLE signing.

[RichCollab]

Yes and no.

They can do some order of operations stuff with the contracts, but if they do decide to use the full MLE, they’re hard capped at the first apron which will significantly limit what they’ll be able to offer Moe.

Basically it boils down to whether or not they have a full MLE target or not. It doesn’t seem like there are many worthy players on the market to get the full $14.1M MLE.

I don’t think we use the full. How does Birds rights come into this?

Long story short, if the Magic actually want to use their full MLE, they will have to not only decline Moe's option but they have to either renounce his bird rights (to remove his cap hold) or sign him to a new contract for far less than he makes now.

It's a bit of a complicated situation to bring Moe back and also make a full MLE signing.

I don’t see us using the Full. NAW is out.

[Knightro]

I don’t think we use the full. How does Birds rights come into this?

Long story short, if the Magic actually want to use their full MLE, they will have to not only decline Moe's option but they have to either renounce his bird rights (to remove his cap hold) or sign him to a new contract for far less than he makes now.

It's a bit of a complicated situation to bring Moe back and also make a full MLE signing.

I don’t see us using the Full. NAW is out.

Doesn't feel like there are a ton of options to use the full MLE on.

NAW, but it seems like he might get more from Atlanta.

Ty Jerome maybe?

One of the two Milwaukee bigs - Bobby Portis or Brook Lopez - and then trade one of the current centers for a guard?

Malik Beasley? Caris LeVert?

[RichCollab]

Long story short, if the Magic actually want to use their full MLE, they will have to not only decline Moe's option but they have to either renounce his bird rights (to remove his cap hold) or sign him to a new contract for far less than he makes now.

It's a bit of a complicated situation to bring Moe back and also make a full MLE signing.

I don’t see us using the Full. NAW is out.

Doesn't feel like there are a ton of options to use the full MLE on.

NAW, but it seems like he might get more from Atlanta.

Ty Jerome maybe?

One of the two Milwaukee bigs - Bobby Portis or Brook Lopez - and then trade one of the current centers for a guard?

Malik Beasley? Caris LeVert?

Levert wouldn’t be bad. Never thought to much of him but seems like solid numbers off the bench.

[flying_mollusk]

Silly question. Can you clarify this? If they don't waive Mo, can they go above the first apron using the full midlevel exception? Or is it just the amount that gets them to the hard cap/first apron - $1,325 million? I'm confused because you said they would be hard capped if they got access to their full midlevel exception, but then wouldn't they not be able to use the full midlevel exception?

Sure.

The Magic right now are over the luxury tax, which means currently they only have access to the smaller taxpayer midlevel exception.

In order to get access to the larger non-taxpayer midlevel exception, they would have to move below the luxury tax.

If they decline Moe's option, that would move them below the luxury tax and allow them to use the full MLE.

If they do not decline Moe's option, it is still possible that they could still dip below the luxury tax, but it would be more difficult and would take other transactions - namely a trade or trades that move them off Jett, Isaac, Goga or Carter while taking significantly less or no salary back in return.

However... if they do use the full 14.1M MLE, it will trigger a hard cap for them at the first apron which is $195.945M. That means they cannot exceed that amount by even a single dollar.

If they decline Moe, which is the easiest path, they would put them approximately 12.3M below the first apron, so they would only be able to spend 12.3 of the 14.1M available to them due to the hard cap.

Thanks! This helps a lot.

Btw, I think you meant if we decline Mo's option, we would be $5,508,819 under the luxury tax, and not "$16,491,181 BELOW the luxury tax." Being $5,508,819 below the luxury tax triggers the larger midlevel exception, correct?

[Knightro]

Btw, I think you meant if we decline Mo's option, we would be $5,508,819 under the luxury tax, and not "$16,491,181 BELOW the luxury tax." Being $5,508,819 below the luxury tax triggers the larger midlevel exception, correct?

You are correct. I had a typo on how far they would be under the luxury tax. They would be approximately 5.5M under by declining Moe as you said.

The Magic just need to get $1 under the luxury tax to get access to the $14.1 MLE.

[Knightro]

The Magic are planning to sign 2nd rounder Noah Penda using the 2nd round exception.

In NBA added the new second-round pick exception in the most recent CBA. It allows teams to sign 2nd round picks to multiyear contracts without having to worry about carving out cap room or exception money for them.

Players who are signed using the second-round pick exception don’t count against a team’s cap between July 1 and July 30 of their first season.

That rule allows teams to preserve all the cap room they need until July 31 without having to worry about their second-rounders cutting into it, as well as positioning those players to sign their first NBA contracts before taking part in Summer League games.

[basketballRob]

Minnesota and NAW would need to agree to and sign and trade for Atlanta to use their TPE. I think Atlanta would need to offer NAW around $16m per year.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using RealGM mobile app

[cedric76]

Moe 7M
Houstan option
Min vet on a guard (Gary maybe)

Just below the 1st apron

[Magic_Johnny12]

Not to mention if we do use the full MLE, that would put Orlando into 2nd apron next season and even more cost saving moves would have to be made.

[RichCollab]

Btw, I think you meant if we decline Mo's option, we would be $5,508,819 under the luxury tax, and not "$16,491,181 BELOW the luxury tax." Being $5,508,819 below the luxury tax triggers the larger midlevel exception, correct?

You are correct. I had a typo on how far they would be under the luxury tax. They would be approximately 5.5M under by declining Moe as you said.

The Magic just need to get $1 under the luxury tax to get access to the $14.1 MLE.

So, to keep the MLE in play Moe and Caleb would have to sign for a combined 5.4999?

[Knightro]

Btw, I think you meant if we decline Mo's option, we would be $5,508,819 under the luxury tax, and not "$16,491,181 BELOW the luxury tax." Being $5,508,819 below the luxury tax triggers the larger midlevel exception, correct?

You are correct. I had a typo on how far they would be under the luxury tax. They would be approximately 5.5M under by declining Moe as you said.

The Magic just need to get $1 under the luxury tax to get access to the $14.1 MLE.

So, to keep the MLE in play Moe and Caleb would have to sign for a combined 5.4999?

My numbers were assuming Caleb gets his option picked up. But it sounds like he may not.

[RichCollab]

You are correct. I had a typo on how far they would be under the luxury tax. They would be approximately 5.5M under by declining Moe as you said.

The Magic just need to get $1 under the luxury tax to get access to the $14.1 MLE.

So, to keep the MLE in play Moe and Caleb would have to sign for a combined 5.4999?

My numbers were assuming Caleb gets his option picked up. But it sounds like he may not.

Ah ok. So we could use the taxpayer MLE if we give Moe more than 5.499?

[Orlando Dawg]

Magic aren’t going to loose MoW just to sign a MLE scrub that a team doesn’t want to pay.
If the Magic decline MoW he’s not signing for 7 mil with no bird rights, he’s signing the MLE on another team.

[cedric76]

Magic aren’t going to loose MoW just to sign a MLE scrub that a team doesn’t want to pay.
If the Magic decline MoW he’s not signing for 7 mil with no bird rights, he’s signing the MLE on another team.

If another team offers him the full MLE , we shouldn't match unfortunately

You cant give a full MLE to a guy that is coming off a big injury and put you would put you above the 2nd apron next season

I m a big fan of Moe and dont want to upset Franz but business is business