Chicago Bulls select Noa Essengue - #12 overall

[Dresden]

I went back and watched some rookie Giannis highlights. He was thin, but he had muscles on him, and he just looks bigger and stronger than what tape I've seen of Noa. He looks more like Darius Miles when he first came into the league.

[SfBull]

What you would initially want or expect from him in the first year? Coby, Giddey, Matas, and if Collins or Vuc are here, those guys are taking a TON of shots. A ton of 3 pters, and Lonzo and Smith would add to that. What we didn't have is a rim runner until now. Matas could do it too, but haven't seen that a ton from him yet. I think if he plays solid defense and cuts and dunks, he'll put up good numbers and balance the offensive team. Even if he isn't a superstar by 19 or 20.

Assuming just that he stays high motor, what's the floor for a long, athletic active guy? What does bust look like, and how long do we give him? At least until he can drink, 21?

Since he isn’t top 10, I guess can live with him not getting 18 minutes or more per night this season (but needs a trend up). But if he isn’t getting that by next season (in its entirety) and starting at some point later Season 2 (or at least being the 3rd man getting near starter minutes) or at minimum season 3… I would consider that a bust for a lotto pick.

Giannis started 71 games in his 2nd season as another raw ultra upside pick. I’m not asking for that, but by the end of season 2, or at latest early Season 3, the trend should be starting or starter minutes.

It's important to remember that Essengue is going to be the 2nd youngest player in the league next year. We're going to need to be patient. My only request: Play him ahead of Phillips and Terry unless those guys take significant steps forward.

It's hard to recommend patience for a fanbase used to an eternal rebuilding.

[2weekswithpay]

Ignoring Giannis' unprecedented physical development, I don't think he and Essengue play alike.

Giannis' ballhandling was a strength of his, and he was allowed to initiate the offense in the halfcourt. Giannis or Siakam is within the range of outcomes, but these two showed flashes of initiation pre-draft. The only time Essengue put the ball on the floor was in transition. He scored off cuts, rolls, offensive rebounds, and spot ups.

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[League Circles]

MOST players taken in the top 20 of the NBA draft have immense potential and likely have comparisons that are multi all star level players.

MOST players taken in the top 20 of the NBA draft end up being disappointments who do little for their team

Both of these statements can be true.

Amen, the absolute truth.

[League Circles]

Essengue has the smoothness and and big frame coordination and defensive instincts that remind me a lot of a bit of a bigger Tayshaun Prince, or at least potentially bigger with more strength. And I think Prince was one hell of a player. Very high level defender and also a multi-use offensive player.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

I still don't get the "boom or bust" takes. His floor is very solid with his length, mobility, and motor. He'll contribute. The big question is his offensive development. He's going to go to the rim a lot. He's going to get fouled a lot (maybe not initially because we know refs don't respect rookies). He's going to be active in the half-court and find ways to take what the defense gives him.

Honestly, how can you watch his body of work and not be excited about him dunking on everyone? I know he played in the German league (and I'm like 8% German), but he schooled those grown men.

[GoBlue72391]

I still don't get the "boom or bust" takes. His floor is very solid with his length, mobility, and motor. He'll contribute. The big question is his offensive development. He's going to go to the rim a lot. He's going to get fouled a lot (maybe not initially because we know refs don't respect rookies). He's going to be active in the half-court and find ways to take what the defense gives him.

Honestly, how can you watch his body of work and not be excited about him dunking on everyone? I know he played in the German league (and I'm like 8% German), but he schooled those grown men.

Assuming he never or only barely gets better, his floor is damn low. A lob threat, cutter, guy who can push the ball in transition, and get the occasional block. That's fine for a C who's also protecting the paint and grabbing a lot of boards, but it's borderline unplayable for a wing. That's a taller Javonte Green without the perimeter defense and a worse 3-ball, and Green already isn't a good shooter. He'll provide less spacing than Pat does, and teams often leave him completely alone.

Until he develops a shot and a handle, it'll be like playing one of those athletic rim-running centers at PF/SF. Imagine someone like Jaxson Hayes or Daniel Gafford spotting up in the corner. Not that bad, but you get the picture. With no shot and no handle, he's basically a C playing wing.

I'd say he held his own in the German League, but schooled grown men is a stretch. Either way, holding his own against professional grown men as a 16, 17, 18-year-old is impressive in itself.

[Ebo21]

I went back and watched some rookie Giannis highlights. He was thin, but he had muscles on him, and he just looks bigger and stronger than what tape I've seen of Noa. He looks more like Darius Miles when he first came into the league.

Darius Miles is a very good comp.

[coldfish]

Ignoring Giannis' unprecedented physical development, I don't think he and Essengue play alike.

Giannis' ballhandling was a strength of his, and he was allowed to initiate the offense in the halfcourt. Giannis or Siakam is within the range of outcomes, but these two showed flashes of initiation pre-draft. The only time Essengue put the ball on the floor was in transition. He scored off cuts, rolls, offensive rebounds, and spot ups.

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The more I see about this guy the less I like the pick. Unless he radically improves, he might not be playable on a modern NBA roster.

[Dez]

Ignoring Giannis' unprecedented physical development, I don't think he and Essengue play alike.

Giannis' ballhandling was a strength of his, and he was allowed to initiate the offense in the halfcourt. Giannis or Siakam is within the range of outcomes, but these two showed flashes of initiation pre-draft. The only time Essengue put the ball on the floor was in transition. He scored off cuts, rolls, offensive rebounds, and spot ups.

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The more I see about this guy the less I like the pick. Unless he radically improves, he might not be playable on a modern NBA roster.

Why? Outside of his shot needing work, what's stopping him from being playable?

[Red Larrivee]

It's a couple of days after the draft. Some guys will look for the upside. he's who we have, he's not going anywhere. Nobody in here knows how he's going to turn out, good or bad. Don't want to hear percentages, NBA players beat the odds every year.

Either way is a choice. It's being presented like people who say he has Giannis potential expect him to be Giannis or great in year one. Nobody said that or has said that. If he has a 1-5% chance, he has the potential. Players like Coby White, Kevin Huerter, Patrick Williams probably don't they don't have the physicals. I think all the people rooting for Noa would be happy for a good starter. But why can't we hope for more, if the potential is there? Why should we focus on every worst case scenario? I'm not. He hasn't even practiced yet. Until I see otherwise, Giddey, Matas and Noa re going to be stars. If they're not but are good-very good NBA players, I'm cool with that too.

I'm not saying you can't hope for an anomaly. I'm saying that using an anomaly as your go-to, high-end outcome is setting yourself up for disappointment and doesn't tell you anything about a prospect. There's a difference. Being realistic doesn't mean you're hoping for a worse outcome. You can still have a favorable comparison that's also attainable.

You've said his floor is Gafford and his ceiling is Giannis. That's not really how it works. It makes it sound like he's one of the best prospects....ever.

[coldfish]

Ignoring Giannis' unprecedented physical development, I don't think he and Essengue play alike.

Giannis' ballhandling was a strength of his, and he was allowed to initiate the offense in the halfcourt. Giannis or Siakam is within the range of outcomes, but these two showed flashes of initiation pre-draft. The only time Essengue put the ball on the floor was in transition. He scored off cuts, rolls, offensive rebounds, and spot ups.

Read on Twitter

The more I see about this guy the less I like the pick. Unless he radically improves, he might not be playable on a modern NBA roster.

Why? Outside of his shot needing work, what's stopping him from being playable?

If you look at the link, his offensive game is virtually nonexistant. He is almost exclusively a garbage points guy and teams struggle to play people like that, particularly if he isn't a center.

[coldfish]

It's a couple of days after the draft. Some guys will look for the upside. he's who we have, he's not going anywhere. Nobody in here knows how he's going to turn out, good or bad. Don't want to hear percentages, NBA players beat the odds every year.

Either way is a choice. It's being presented like people who say he has Giannis potential expect him to be Giannis or great in year one. Nobody said that or has said that. If he has a 1-5% chance, he has the potential. Players like Coby White, Kevin Huerter, Patrick Williams probably don't they don't have the physicals. I think all the people rooting for Noa would be happy for a good starter. But why can't we hope for more, if the potential is there? Why should we focus on every worst case scenario? I'm not. He hasn't even practiced yet. Until I see otherwise, Giddey, Matas and Noa re going to be stars. If they're not but are good-very good NBA players, I'm cool with that too.

I'm not saying you can't hope for an anomaly. I'm saying that using an anomaly as your go-to, high-end outcome is setting yourself up for disappointment and doesn't tell you anything about a prospect. There's a difference. Being realistic doesn't mean you're hoping for a worse outcome. You can still have a favorable comparison that's also attainable.

You've said his floor is Gafford and his ceiling is Giannis. That's not really how it works. It makes it sound like he's one of the best prospects....ever.

I have no issues if people want to be optimistic and its certainly possible that Noa develops into something great.

With that said, its factually correct to say that it is highly unlikely. This guy doesn't scream like Pat Will to me. More Dalen Terry where he tries really hard but still barely plays and is struggling to stay in the league after his first contract.

[Indomitable]

Don't forget the hard to pronounce last names!

I don't either, unless Noa can recreate the Bruce Banner experiment that caused Giannis to become a superhero.

I don’t think folks are thinking finals “cheat code” Giannis. Just Giannis overall.

Giannis gets criticized in international competition because his primary attack is just his ability to have an explosive straight line drive or cut, and just finish over / through people due to size. Not that advanced a handle, not amazing post skills (but the finals games). Just blow by and finish.

Essengue, in addition to having Giannis esque size (especially compared to Giannis coming in) already has that sort of blow by, plunge drive / cut ability. It’s the one thing on offense he has that he isn’t raw on (also very good hands).

And then you have the defensive versatility at his size.

IF Noa gets a tiny bit bigger (no guarantee but he grew since last year’s measurements), and IF he gets a LOT stronger, and IF the handle improves by a little bit, vision translates, shot improves (especially mid range) and offense skills like in post develop a bit…. You may have a Giannis 2.0 situation

Their build is so different. Giannis has broad shoulders and doesn't look skinny/weak. that's a big reason he can drive through traffic so easily.

It was not that obvious. Look at old Giannis his shoulders were more rounded. People knew he gain weight but most people had him pegged as a sf.

[Indomitable]

People are missing the point with the Giannis comp. It isn’t primarily about the overall quality.

It is about the type of player. This goes back to the criticisms of Giannis, as a guy who relies too much on size advantages to just get by people and score inside with length and strength and first step. Noa’s skills and athleticism and size fit with that. Siakam, OTOH, is far more skilled than Noa will likely ever be - and at the same me “only” an 8’11.5 reach as opposed to 9’2 or 9’3 (depending on source), and an inch and a half shorter, too. Essengue also has a big edge on the lane agility drill, small edge on sprint over Siakam, Siakam had an inch advantage on the jumps.

But, again, the slightly smaller Siakam is not primarily a power driver whose elite skill is finishing based on size advantage (and power) like Giannis. Essengue projects more to that, with certain near elite physical traits that, IF COUPLED with a tiny bit more growth (no guarantee), a lot more strength (no guarantee) and certain skill developments, could make him comparable to non-“God mode” Giannis as a player. (Cheat Code Giannis from the finals is something else entirely, comparable only with things like MJ or LeBron in the Cleveland finals win over the Warriors, etc.).

He could also be a complete bust, or anywhere in between. Huge boom / bust spread. But the boom possibility - the absolute ceiling -absolutely deserves comparison to Giannis.

If you want to talk Siakam… Matas may well be Siakam like.

Siakam was a 21 or 22 when drafted.

[Indomitable]

I still don't get the "boom or bust" takes. His floor is very solid with his length, mobility, and motor. He'll contribute. The big question is his offensive development. He's going to go to the rim a lot. He's going to get fouled a lot (maybe not initially because we know refs don't respect rookies). He's going to be active in the half-court and find ways to take what the defense gives him.

Honestly, how can you watch his body of work and not be excited about him dunking on everyone? I know he played in the German league (and I'm like 8% German), but he schooled those grown men.

There is no logic. This is a reaction to the Bulls organization. Most people are resentful and it comes out in this threads.

[Dresden]

I went back and watched some rookie Giannis highlights. He was thin, but he had muscles on him, and he just looks bigger and stronger than what tape I've seen of Noa. He looks more like Darius Miles when he first came into the league.

Darius Miles is a very good comp.

I meant the body type, not the overall game. Miles had a pretty good handle from what I remember. Noa is probably a little longer.

[Dresden]

Ignoring Giannis' unprecedented physical development, I don't think he and Essengue play alike.

Giannis' ballhandling was a strength of his, and he was allowed to initiate the offense in the halfcourt. Giannis or Siakam is within the range of outcomes, but these two showed flashes of initiation pre-draft. The only time Essengue put the ball on the floor was in transition. He scored off cuts, rolls, offensive rebounds, and spot ups.

Read on Twitter

The more I see about this guy the less I like the pick. Unless he radically improves, he might not be playable on a modern NBA roster.

Why? Outside of his shot needing work, what's stopping him from being playable?

The shooting alone is almost reason enough, but add in an inability to create any kind of offense for himself means he's almost like playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end of the court when he's on the floor. Ok for a great defensive center, but not for a pf. Unless your center is Joel Embiid or KAT.

I'm more confident he'll be able to develop a spot up 3 pt shot than I am he'll develop an NBA level handle. he's still very young. 2-3 years of hard work in the gym could make him into a respectable shooter. One of the downsides of playing in a pro league as opposed to college is I imagine on a pro team you don't have as much chance to develop your weaknesses- it's more about what can you do now to help the team.

[Chi town]

It's a couple of days after the draft. Some guys will look for the upside. he's who we have, he's not going anywhere. Nobody in here knows how he's going to turn out, good or bad. Don't want to hear percentages, NBA players beat the odds every year.

Either way is a choice. It's being presented like people who say he has Giannis potential expect him to be Giannis or great in year one. Nobody said that or has said that. If he has a 1-5% chance, he has the potential. Players like Coby White, Kevin Huerter, Patrick Williams probably don't they don't have the physicals. I think all the people rooting for Noa would be happy for a good starter. But why can't we hope for more, if the potential is there? Why should we focus on every worst case scenario? I'm not. He hasn't even practiced yet. Until I see otherwise, Giddey, Matas and Noa re going to be stars. If they're not but are good-very good NBA players, I'm cool with that too.

I'm not saying you can't hope for an anomaly. I'm saying that using an anomaly as your go-to, high-end outcome is setting yourself up for disappointment and doesn't tell you anything about a prospect. There's a difference. Being realistic doesn't mean you're hoping for a worse outcome. You can still have a favorable comparison that's also attainable.

You've said his floor is Gafford and his ceiling is Giannis. That's not really how it works. It makes it sound like he's one of the best prospects....ever.

I have no issues if people want to be optimistic and its certainly possible that Noa develops into something great.

With that said, its factually correct to say that it is highly unlikely. This guy doesn't scream like Pat Will to me. More Dalen Terry where he tries really hard but still barely plays and is struggling to stay in the league after his first contract.

His shot and FT rate are already way better than DT.

Need to remember he will be playing the PW role in the corner but will actually be cutting and attacking the glass. He also sprints the floor at all times unlike PW has ever done which gets easy buckets.

PW hasn’t really had a PG do him any favors until Giddey last year but he didn’t benefit because he stands instead of moving. Noa never stops moving.

[Chi town]

People are missing the point with the Giannis comp. It isn’t primarily about the overall quality.

It is about the type of player. This goes back to the criticisms of Giannis, as a guy who relies too much on size advantages to just get by people and score inside with length and strength and first step. Noa’s skills and athleticism and size fit with that. Siakam, OTOH, is far more skilled than Noa will likely ever be - and at the same me “only” an 8’11.5 reach as opposed to 9’2 or 9’3 (depending on source), and an inch and a half shorter, too. Essengue also has a big edge on the lane agility drill, small edge on sprint over Siakam, Siakam had an inch advantage on the jumps.

But, again, the slightly smaller Siakam is not primarily a power driver whose elite skill is finishing based on size advantage (and power) like Giannis. Essengue projects more to that, with certain near elite physical traits that, IF COUPLED with a tiny bit more growth (no guarantee), a lot more strength (no guarantee) and certain skill developments, could make him comparable to non-“God mode” Giannis as a player. (Cheat Code Giannis from the finals is something else entirely, comparable only with things like MJ or LeBron in the Cleveland finals win over the Warriors, etc.).

He could also be a complete bust, or anywhere in between. Huge boom / bust spread. But the boom possibility - the absolute ceiling -absolutely deserves comparison to Giannis.

If you want to talk Siakam… Matas may well be Siakam like.

Siakam was a 21 or 22 when drafted.

Good post MG.

Noa def less skilled than Siakam. If his strength develops the power drive game will be there with excellent skill of drawing FTs. If his shot develops he could be really hard to defend.