2025 Draft Thread - Part 4

[PaulinVA]

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[dobrojim]

Belmont forward Jonathan Pierre has been signed to an Exhibit 10 contract.
I like this pickup. I think he could be like Champagne.
https://youtu.be/nNdiMJ84x7Y?si=V0f0pANg4YypN0kr

PiF is not crazy in his praise of Champagnie. He was
consistently one of our most productive players this year. He consistently helped us to be competitive
even if we didn't win many games.

If we could do nearly that well with future FA pickups,
that would be really good. That said, after this year, we're already going to have tons of cap space available to
make great offers.

[dobrojim]

All this and not factoring in the massive difference in work ethic and attitude.

I don't get it.

I thought at the combine that Ace measured less than
what was listed on this chart. All year long it was 6-9
but I thought it ended up actually being LT 6-8 w/o shoes.

[gambitx777]

So as easy as it was to move up in the draft I'm surprised we didn't try? I wonder if we didn't like any of those second round bigs and we took the guy we wanted?

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It wasn’t easy at all to move up in the draft. Teams were extracting massive compensation to trade down a few spots.

Atlanta got an unprotected FRP from New Orleans to drop from 13 to 22. We got 3 SRPs to drop from 18 to 21.

Charlotte was surely asking a massive price from us to move up from 6 to 4. We ultimately declined.

I meant in the second round. My bad ! I wasn't clear!

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[Benjammin]

My guess is if there were a player they really liked in the second round they would have peeled off a few of those future second round picks to move up..

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[Frichuela]

Belmont forward Jonathan Pierre has been signed to an Exhibit 10 contract.
I like this pickup. I think he could be like Champagne.
https://youtu.be/nNdiMJ84x7Y?si=V0f0pANg4YypN0kr

PiF is not crazy in his praise of Champagnie. He was
consistently one of our most productive players this year. He consistently helped us to be competitive
even if we didn't win many games.

If we could do nearly that well with future FA pickups,
that would be really good. That said, after this year, we're already going to have tons of cap space available to
make great offers.

Like him. He also fits Dakwins profile to a t.

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/a-scouts-eyes-evaluating-jonathan

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

There's a funny if mean spirited post over on the general board on the "Ace Bailey...." thread that I think captures why part of me feels a hint of acceptance and maybe a sense of dodged bullet with the pick and it' articulates this argument....

".....All world talent and nice looking jumper and skill set. Even Stevie Wonder can see that part.

On the flip side maybe one of the dumbest prospects I’ve ever seen.

On the court his style of play is a morons game and he’s proud of it. Plays with a foolish arrogance that’s detrimental to team success and makes life harder on himself and his team. Doesn’t use his talents to make the game easier for anyone. But his talent and skill set is so tantalizing Utah said we’re not letting him get past us.

Off the courts he’s probably an even bigger idiot. Trying to force his way to certain teams not working out and doing bad in interviews when millions of dollars are at stake. Had he crushed this portion of the draft and if he were smart about it he would be in a much better situation in Philly than in Utah.

Insert every imaginable excuse for him sucking last year and everything that’s transpired since......"

On the one hand, I view Bailey as a mega talent that us being the wiz, missed out on because we decided to fail at tanking just as Utah got their Ph.D. in tanking, to such a horrible extent that we blew it with a miracle shot you know no wizard ever in any universe would hit in an actual playoff game for all the marbles, but to kill draft slotting not he last second of the season? Sure, he'll make that" kind of moment. I view him as the 2nd most talented prospect in the class, just as the recruiting wars did just about uniformly.

Otoh, this take from the main board is something I can't but feel is actually write. We have that interview/background piece, we have the handing over his management to a clown show of vile cretins and morons, we have the way he played, which int he description above, at least partially sounds right (I practice ----- shots is the argument of a true idiot, sure, a trick in your golf bag you work on, on the side okay, but prioritize the worst percentage shots imaginable? No, definitely no)....

So the other part of me is deeply alarmed at what is between his ears. He does indeed sound like a happy go lucky idiot. Otoh, he had. 3.0 GPA, so wtf is going on here? I have no idea....

But going into the season, I'm not in denial about this. There is no stink on Johnson beyond the basic critiques of the past year in general. No finishing game, no defense, occasionally gives half efforts and worse for "reasons", but apparently he's also a hard worker, first in last out type it seems, and there is no "dumb as hell" stink to him that there is to Bailey. To be fair to Bailey, he did have that 3.0 GPA in High School which isn't nothing, it does require work, and some degree of commitment.

But man, everything about his offseason is horrible, I had hoped to take advantage of it, and absolutely would have drafted him ahead of Tre, but there's no question to me at this point that his floor is much lower than Tre's. There's no cure for this degree of poor judgment if indeed it is a character flaw of the guy. There is far too little information to believe fundamentally he's an idiot with terrible judgment right now, but there sure as hell is plenty of circumstantial evidence, that the best case scenario is that his judgment SUCKS, with a capital S.

I didn't want to say it before the draft, but I thought, "Dumb as a rock."

There's a highlight from the B1G where Ace drives the lane and tries to cram on Derik Queen, only to get cleanly packed and sent backward after the rejection.

Harper was supposedly sick, and Bailey had some excuse, but Queen kicked both of them in the ass with 29/15/5.

It will be really interesting to see how these guys progress in the NBA.

[gambitx777]

My guess is if there were a player they really liked in the second round they would have peeled off a few of those future second round picks to move up..

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Which is what I think too . But then I'm like what am I missing ? What am I not seeing that they see?

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Belmont forward Jonathan Pierre has been signed to an Exhibit 10 contract.
I like this pickup. I think he could be like Champagne.
https://youtu.be/nNdiMJ84x7Y?si=V0f0pANg4YypN0kr

Why not?

Ja'Kobi Gillespie was at Belmont prior to this season with Maryland. Gillespie was among the top B1G players this season. When Kevin Willard left for Villanova, Gillespie signed a top dollar NIL deal with Tennessee. He could be next year's Walter Clayton Jr.

I've never heard of Jordan Pierre, but doesn’t mean he might not be as you say, WallToWall, just like Champagnie.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I wonder if Bailey is the type of guy who won’t get his sh*t together until he is on his second contract. Kinda like Zach Randolph or Andrew Wiggins.

Nah, I totally disagree.

Zach Randolph punched out a teammate in practice early in his career.

I met Zach Randolph the same day I met Kwame Brown at Pete Newell's Big Man Camp. Each had finished their rookie seasons.

I talked to Zach. He listened. I dont think he said a word, but he listened attentively.

I told him, "i believe you're going to be an All-Star one day."

nate33, it took a few years, and a trade to Memphis. It also took management smarter than Ernie Grunfeld. Zach was still a rascal. The Grizzlies made his weapon issue go away. (My parents were both born there. I get why people feel they need to carry). That said, Zebo was a crowd pleaser. His second contract did, in fact, prove better. Doesn't it make sense?

The group think, en vogue trend is to draft 18-year-olds and to hope the embryos turn into the next Kobe, KG, or Giannis. Some guys take longer.

Ace Bailey in MJ's era would have played two or three, even four years of college. Now, the money is too great to wait for mental/emotional maturity.

[nate33]

I thought at the combine that Ace measured less than
what was listed on this chart. All year long it was 6-9
but I thought it ended up actually being LT 6-8 w/o shoes.

Ace measured 6'-7.50"
Tre measured 6'-4.75"

It looks like Tankathon is just automatically adding 1.25" to give a standardized "with shoes" height which would be more or less comparable with listed heights of players once they're in the league.

[nate33]

I wonder if Bailey is the type of guy who won’t get his sh*t together until he is on his second contract. Kinda like Zach Randolph or Andrew Wiggins.

Nah, I totally disagree.

Zach Randolph punched out a teammate in practice early in his career.

I met Zach Randolph the same day I met Kwame Brown at Pete Newell's Big Man Camp. Each had finished their rookie seasons.

I talked to Zach. He listened. I dont think he said a word, but he listened attentively.

I told him, "i believe you're going to be an All-Star one day."

nare35, it took a few years, and for a trade Memphis. It also to management smarter than Ernie Grunfeld. Zach was still a rascal. The Grizzlies made his weapon issue go away. (My parents were both born there. I get why people feel they need to carry). That said, Zebo was a crowd pleaser. His second contract did, in fact, prove better. Doesn't it make sense?

The group think, en vogue trend is to draft 18-year-olds and to hope the embryos turn into the next Kobe, KG, or Giannis. Some guys take longer.

Ace Bailey in MJ's era would have played two or three, even four years of college. Now, the money is too great to wait for mental/emotional maturity.

I don't follow. What do you disagree about? You just explained how Zach had some problems early in his career but then righted the ship later on. Are you saying you don't think Ace will do that? Is that because you think Ace will be okay from Day 1? Or do you think Ace will just never figure it out?

[nate33]

My guess is if there were a player they really liked in the second round they would have peeled off a few of those future second round picks to move up..

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Which is what I think too . But then I'm like what am I missing ? What am I not seeing that they see?

Sent from my SM-S926U1 using RealGM mobile app

There isn't anything to see. They didn't feel like any of these guys were worth trading up for. Or rather, they probably didn't want any more young guys on the roster anyhow.

[DCZards]

My guess is if there were a player they really liked in the second round they would have peeled off a few of those future second round picks to move up..

Which is what I think too . But then I'm like what am I missing ? What am I not seeing that they see?

What they see is a lot more data, a lot more film, and a lot more live performances when it comes to these draft picks.

[payitforward]

Belmont forward Jonathan Pierre has been signed to an Exhibit 10 contract.
I like this pickup. I think he could be like Champagne.
https://youtu.be/nNdiMJ84x7Y?si=V0f0pANg4YypN0kr

PiF is not crazy in his praise of Champagnie. He was
consistently one of our most productive players this year. He consistently helped us to be competitive
even if we didn't win many games.

If we could do nearly that well with future FA pickups,
that would be really good. That said, after this year, we're already going to have tons of cap space available to
make great offers.

Nice pickup! He looks very talented. We will have a 2 way spot for him if he looks good in SL and training camp.

[tontoz]

We shouldn't be obsessing so much about Ace. Bottom line is that he wasn't on the board when we picked.

The important issue is whether we picked the best guy available and I think we did.

[payitforward]

My guess is if there were a player they really liked in the second round they would have peeled off a few of those future second round picks to move up..

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

Which is what I think too . But then I'm like what am I missing ? What am I not seeing that they see?

Sent from my SM-S926U1 using RealGM mobile app

There isn't anything to see. They didn't feel like any of these guys were worth trading up for. Or rather, they probably didn't want any more young guys on the roster anyhow.

In any case no room! I do like them signing Pierre, however.

[Rafael122]

Watkins shot almost 76% from the line in college (75.8%) so the potential to shoot better from 3 is there. I like the pick, not suggesting he’s a rotational piece. He’s probably spending most of the year in the G-league but he’s got sick measurements and can already play defense so he’s got an NBA skill.

[The Consiglieri]

So as easy as it was to move up in the draft I'm surprised we didn't try? I wonder if we didn't like any of those second round bigs and we took the guy we wanted?

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It wasn’t easy at all to move up in the draft. Teams were extracting massive compensation to trade down a few spots.

Atlanta got an unprotected FRP from New Orleans to drop from 13 to 22. We got 3 SRPs to drop from 18 to 21.

Charlotte was surely asking a massive price from us to move up from 6 to 4. We ultimately declined.

I would argue the consensus around the league, and around insiders was that Atlanta didn't get market rate, but rather swindled the ever living ---- out of a truly moronic front office. That doesn't sound like the going rate, it sounds like someone got the dime store version of Docic'd. The Pelican FO were absolute drooling imbeciles.

[The Consiglieri]

My guess is if there were a player they really liked in the second round they would have peeled off a few of those future second round picks to move up..

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

Which is what I think too . But then I'm like what am I missing ? What am I not seeing that they see?

Sent from my SM-S926U1 using RealGM mobile app

I think it was Dobra's take yesterday that they are balancing prospect infusions with the objective of finishing bottom 4 next year so we don't lose our pick, and hopefully worst, in a draft that is for now, 4 deep in perceived future star prospects. Adding players that continually lift up the floor puts that pick at risk. We saw what a schedule against tanking teams and playoff bound teams resting our players lead us to win as many games in our final 26 games as we won in our first 56, and cost us the fifth pick in the draft.

IF we land a solid professional NBA player but with a limited ceiling, is it really worth it if it puts our '26 1st at risk? Definitely not.

I'm not sure if that is the calculus, or if they simply want to keep the seconds to help facilitate future trades more than they liked any of the prospects, my guess is that it was all of the above, plus, you already have a roster chock full of kids 22 and younger, how many can you have? My only quibble would be a draft and stash.