NBA Trade Thread #12

[Infinity2152]

We know there are multiple teams that would want Ball. I'm 99% positive we could have gotten a better return. But my hate for this trade is subsiding. When we got Collins, Tre Jones, Huerter by trade, all looked crappy. And Giddey didn't look nearly as good at first. Okoro's a 6'5 SG who's been playing SF with small guards the last few years. Shoots the 3 well enough to play next to Giddey and be the POA defender on the court, a Coby or Huerter trade is probably likely. Though Ayo could have fit that role.

He could look much better here at SG than he did at SF with Cleveland. So I'll withdraw half of the curses I've directed towards AK until further notice. Only know cursory info about Okoro, hope AK has done a much deeper dive. He's been pretty decent or lucky at adding low cost undervalued players (Caruso, Giddey, Collins, Jones, Huerter, Drummond, Pat Bev, Smith).

[Chi town]

We know there are multiple teams that would want Ball. I'm 99% positive we could have gotten a better return. But my hate for this trade is subsiding. When we got Collins, Tre Jones, Huerter by trade, all looked crappy. And Giddey didn't look nearly as good at first. Okoro's a 6'5 SG who's been playing SF with small guards the last few years. Shoots the 3 well enough to play next to Giddey and be the POA defender on the court, a Coby or Huerter trade is probably likely. Though Ayo could have fit that role.

He could look much better here at SG than he did at SF with Cleveland. So I'll withdraw half of the curses I've directed towards AK until further notice. Only know cursory info about Okoro, hope AK has done a much deeper dive. He's been pretty decent or lucky at adding low cost undervalued players (Caruso, Giddey, Collins, Jones, Huerter, Drummond, Pat Bev, Smith).

Most likely Okoro will have the corner 3 role here like Pat has had.

He will just provide a lot more energy and movement

[WesPeace]

We know there are multiple teams that would want Ball. I'm 99% positive we could have gotten a better return. But my hate for this trade is subsiding. When we got Collins, Tre Jones, Huerter by trade, all looked crappy. And Giddey didn't look nearly as good at first. Okoro's a 6'5 SG who's been playing SF with small guards the last few years. Shoots the 3 well enough to play next to Giddey and be the POA defender on the court, a Coby or Huerter trade is probably likely. Though Ayo could have fit that role.

He could look much better here at SG than he did at SF with Cleveland. So I'll withdraw half of the curses I've directed towards AK until further notice. Only know cursory info about Okoro, hope AK has done a much deeper dive. He's been pretty decent or lucky at adding low cost undervalued players (Caruso, Giddey, Collins, Jones, Huerter, Drummond, Pat Bev, Smith).

Okoro will play SF, not SG.. he is strong and tall enough (6'6.25 in shoes) for small forward role and I really really doubt that Coby will be dealt because IO came here. They can easily play together (Giddey, White, Okoro) with Matas at PF and center. Huerter shouldnt be dealt now either,but at deadline, if..

[boozapalooza]

Read on Twitter

Interesting. We KC saying we are active in trades and theres more chatter around Ayo than Coby. We don’t consider Ayo trades as frequently. No idea what he would fetch in return - and as much as I love the guy, I don’t love extending him on a 20M+ deal either.

[PistolP]

Curious what we could get for Ayo. Houston has a need for that type of player after trading Brooks. Ayo could also be packaged as part of a bigger deal to get Vuc or PWill off our hands. Or maybe part of a Kuminga S&T.

[HoopsterJones]

Not sure what trading Ayo can bring back. Hoping for a FRP of any kind but he is on a $7.5m expiring deal.

Coby White is of better value in my opinion and I’d hope for a FRP and another FRP of lesser value or a young player in return.

[HoopsterJones]

Jonathan Kuminga doesn’t fit well with Matas Buzelis and Noa in the front court unless Noa slots in at C. Would depend on Kuminga’s salary but he’s been pretty mid TBH.

[Infinity2152]

We know there are multiple teams that would want Ball. I'm 99% positive we could have gotten a better return. But my hate for this trade is subsiding. When we got Collins, Tre Jones, Huerter by trade, all looked crappy. And Giddey didn't look nearly as good at first. Okoro's a 6'5 SG who's been playing SF with small guards the last few years. Shoots the 3 well enough to play next to Giddey and be the POA defender on the court, a Coby or Huerter trade is probably likely. Though Ayo could have fit that role.

He could look much better here at SG than he did at SF with Cleveland. So I'll withdraw half of the curses I've directed towards AK until further notice. Only know cursory info about Okoro, hope AK has done a much deeper dive. He's been pretty decent or lucky at adding low cost undervalued players (Caruso, Giddey, Collins, Jones, Huerter, Drummond, Pat Bev, Smith).

Okoro will play SF, not SG.. he is strong and tall enough (6'6.25 in shoes) for small forward role and I really really doubt that Coby will be dealt because IO came here. They can easily play together (Giddey, White, Okoro) with Matas at PF and center. Huerter shouldnt be dealt now either,but at deadline, if..

Almost everything I see has Okoro at 6'5 with a few exceptions, I'm going with the majority. 6'5 is not tall for a SG and it's short for a SF. Let's stop just making up new definitions. 6'7 is average height for SF. Never ever said Coby would be traded because of him, I said the trade is more likely. Meaning because they added another 6'5 player, they're more likely to trade another 6'5 player. If there's no plan to trade Coby or Huerter, Okoro will not get minutes. He's basically the same size as Ayo, but a little heavier.

Forget what position he plays, let's use both. Players who could/would play SG/SF before Okoro: White, Williams, Matas, Essengue, Huerter, Phillips, Giddey, Terry, Ayo. All except Ayo and Coby are taller than Okoro. Does it matter what you call him, he's generally going to be the shortest player in our lineups.

[Chi town]

Not sure what trading Ayo can bring back. Hoping for a FRP of any kind but he is on a $7.5m expiring deal.

Coby White is of better value in my opinion and I’d hope for a FRP and another FRP of lesser value or a young player in return.

Or what type of player they are looking at?

We already have too many players.

Maybe a bigger swing? Ayo for Whitmore?

Ayo for a PG?

Ayo attached to get rid of Vuc?

I want to see Ayo in this pace system with Giddey. I think he could hoop.

[Infinity2152]

It's getting ridiculous. Literally every player on this team needs minutes except Carter, Vucevic and Collins. Vucevic and Collins are guaranteed to get minutes. Coby, Matas and Giddey are getting minutes. Carter's our only backup PG. We're trying to rehab Ayo and Pat Will's value and they could both still be good. While finding minutes for Okoro, Phillips, Terry, Smith and Essengue. And no top 25 player. We need to combine some of these mid assets and upgrade while adding roster spots.

Focus on developing 5-8 young guys instead of 13. We should have a few vets on the bench like Craig or THT who don't need minutes, but can play when you need them. Guys like Terry and Phillips will not get minutes and they're expiring. Or we'll force minutes onto them that could have gone to other young players, then let them expire.

Between Terry, Phillips, Okoro, Ayo, Williams, that's 5 underperforming young players while we're trying to develop and grow Giddey, Noa and Matas.

[sco]

Not sure what trading Ayo can bring back. Hoping for a FRP of any kind but he is on a $7.5m expiring deal.

Coby White is of better value in my opinion and I’d hope for a FRP and another FRP of lesser value or a young player in return.

Or what type of player they are looking at?

We already have too many players.

Maybe a bigger swing? Ayo for Whitmore?

Ayo for a PG?

Ayo attached to get rid of Vuc?

I want to see Ayo in this pace system with Giddey. I think he could hoop.

Part of me roots for Ayo. He is very good in transition and I keep telling myself that his recent fall-off was 100% due to his injury. That said, IMO he hasn't been better than average defensively since his rookie year and his offense was wildly inconsistent before last season.

If we can get back a more useful player back, or a heavily protected 1st, or better yet be rid of Vuc for Ayo, I'd be happy.

[Infinity2152]

Ayo has to be our backup PG as of right now. Who else is there? Carter? Terry? With the faster pace that could be good for him. We lost a ton of bench playmaking with the Ball trade for all those who wanted Ball gone.

[sco]

Ayo has to be our backup PG as of right now. Who else is there? Carter? Terry? With the faster pace that could be good for him. We lost a ton of bench playmaking with the Ball trade for all those who wanted Ball gone.

Probably but IDK if he's any better of a PG than Carter. Coby in reality will our backup PG right now anyway. I see his minutes staggered with Matas.

[Infinity2152]

Ayo has to be our backup PG as of right now. Who else is there? Carter? Terry? With the faster pace that could be good for him. We lost a ton of bench playmaking with the Ball trade for all those who wanted Ball gone.

Probably but IDK if he's any better of a PG than Carter. Coby in reality will our backup PG right now anyway. I see his minutes staggered with Matas.

Coby's likely our starting SG. He's coming off the floor when the bench comes in. If Ayo's recovered from his injury, he probably gets as many minutes as Huerter. Right now the four guard rotation looks like Giddey/Ayo, Coby/Huerter to me, with Huerter maybe getting some minutes at SF. Matas is splitting forward minutes with Williams, Essengue, and Phillips. Slide Terry in there too, no reason for Coby to get more than 34 mins at starting SG.

In our up tempo system, Ayo's probably a better lead guard than Coby or just as good, Coby's mostly looking for his own shot and needs to shoot high volume. Ayo will push the break. Depending on his health and play of course. And don't care what anybody says about Ayo's defense, he's easily the best defender of the 4 main guards.

Ayo should do much better in the offense without Derozan, Lavine and Vucevic forcing the Bulls into half court sets every possession and forcing no turnovers. Turnovers lead to fast breaks, bread and butter for transition players.

[WesPeace]

We know there are multiple teams that would want Ball. I'm 99% positive we could have gotten a better return. But my hate for this trade is subsiding. When we got Collins, Tre Jones, Huerter by trade, all looked crappy. And Giddey didn't look nearly as good at first. Okoro's a 6'5 SG who's been playing SF with small guards the last few years. Shoots the 3 well enough to play next to Giddey and be the POA defender on the court, a Coby or Huerter trade is probably likely. Though Ayo could have fit that role.

He could look much better here at SG than he did at SF with Cleveland. So I'll withdraw half of the curses I've directed towards AK until further notice. Only know cursory info about Okoro, hope AK has done a much deeper dive. He's been pretty decent or lucky at adding low cost undervalued players (Caruso, Giddey, Collins, Jones, Huerter, Drummond, Pat Bev, Smith).

Okoro will play SF, not SG.. he is strong and tall enough (6'6.25 in shoes) for small forward role and I really really doubt that Coby will be dealt because IO came here. They can easily play together (Giddey, White, Okoro) with Matas at PF and center. Huerter shouldnt be dealt now either,but at deadline, if..

Almost everything I see has Okoro at 6'5 with a few exceptions, I'm going with the majority. 6'5 is not tall for a SG and it's short for a SF. Let's stop just making up new definitions. 6'7 is average height for SF. Never ever said Coby would be traded because of him, I said the trade is more likely. Meaning because they added another 6'5 player, they're more likely to trade another 6'5 player. If there's no plan to trade Coby or Huerter, Okoro will not get minutes. He's basically the same size as Ayo, but a little heavier.

Forget what position he plays, let's use both. Players who could/would play SG/SF before Okoro: White, Williams, Matas, Essengue, Huerter, Phillips, Giddey, Terry, Ayo. All except Ayo and Coby are taller than Okoro. Does it matter what you call him, he's generally going to be the shortest player in our lineups.

Javonte Green and Caruso said hi do you remember what they played many times? Freaking PF because of Billy D.

6'5/6'6 is tall enough for SG and SF especially for guys with bigger frames and good defenders. Of course he would struggle a bit vs big wings, but thats why coaches has different options and matchups.

[Infinity2152]

Okoro will play SF, not SG.. he is strong and tall enough (6'6.25 in shoes) for small forward role and I really really doubt that Coby will be dealt because IO came here. They can easily play together (Giddey, White, Okoro) with Matas at PF and center. Huerter shouldnt be dealt now either,but at deadline, if..

Almost everything I see has Okoro at 6'5 with a few exceptions, I'm going with the majority. 6'5 is not tall for a SG and it's short for a SF. Let's stop just making up new definitions. 6'7 is average height for SF. Never ever said Coby would be traded because of him, I said the trade is more likely. Meaning because they added another 6'5 player, they're more likely to trade another 6'5 player. If there's no plan to trade Coby or Huerter, Okoro will not get minutes. He's basically the same size as Ayo, but a little heavier.

Forget what position he plays, let's use both. Players who could/would play SG/SF before Okoro: White, Williams, Matas, Essengue, Huerter, Phillips, Giddey, Terry, Ayo. All except Ayo and Coby are taller than Okoro. Does it matter what you call him, he's generally going to be the shortest player in our lineups.

Javonte Green and Caruso said hi do you remember what they played many times? Freaking PF because of Billy D.

6'5/6'6 is tall enough for SG and SF especially for guys with bigger frames and good defenders. Of course he would struggle a bit vs big wings, but thats why coaches has different options and matchups.

I'm not saying it's not possible to play SF or PF at 6'5". I'm saying it's inherently going to be harder than SG. Lot of nights you'll be matching up against 6'9-611 SF's. I'm giving him credit, I think his career would have gone better if he was regularly matched up against players his same height, that's all. Personally, I'd prefer my SF 6'7 at least with a long wingspan to add to my defensive length. If you're shorter than both the guards, does it matter what we call you? You're still not bringing extra height or length. Works with a 6'8 PG, but what about if we resign Tre Jones? Could be looking at 6'1 Tre Jones, 6'4 Ayo Dosunmu, 6'5" Isaac Okoro on the court at the same time.

Caruso and Green are freaks and both guards, they can just defend multiple positions because they're that good. They played every position except center because we had no forwards besides Pat.

I mean, or he could just be bad. He's played both for years without much success. He's got 5 seasons under his belt and been consistently below average in most metrics. Coincidentally, they have the real Javonte Green already, lol!

[WesPeace]

Almost everything I see has Okoro at 6'5 with a few exceptions, I'm going with the majority. 6'5 is not tall for a SG and it's short for a SF. Let's stop just making up new definitions. 6'7 is average height for SF. Never ever said Coby would be traded because of him, I said the trade is more likely. Meaning because they added another 6'5 player, they're more likely to trade another 6'5 player. If there's no plan to trade Coby or Huerter, Okoro will not get minutes. He's basically the same size as Ayo, but a little heavier.

Forget what position he plays, let's use both. Players who could/would play SG/SF before Okoro: White, Williams, Matas, Essengue, Huerter, Phillips, Giddey, Terry, Ayo. All except Ayo and Coby are taller than Okoro. Does it matter what you call him, he's generally going to be the shortest player in our lineups.

Javonte Green and Caruso said hi do you remember what they played many times? Freaking PF because of Billy D.

6'5/6'6 is tall enough for SG and SF especially for guys with bigger frames and good defenders. Of course he would struggle a bit vs big wings, but thats why coaches has different options and matchups.

I'm not saying it's not possible to play SF or PF at 6'5". I'm saying it's inherently going to be harder than SG. Lot of nights you'll be matching up against 6'9-611 SF's. I'm giving him credit, I think his career would have gone better if he was regularly matched up against players his same height, that's all. Personally, I'd prefer my SF 6'7 at least with a long wingspan to add to my defensive length. If you're shorter than both the guards, does it matter what we call you? You're still not bringing extra height or length. Works with a 6'8 PG, but what about if we resign Tre Jones? Could be looking at 6'1 Tre Jones, 6'4 Ayo Dosunmu, 6'5" Isaac Okoro on the court at the same time.

Caruso and Green are freaks and both guards, they can just defend multiple positions because they're that good. They played every position except center because we had no forwards besides Pat.

To be honest, 6'9 - 6'11 height is PF size, especially in modern NBA where we also see a lot of 6'8 and 6'9 small ball centers.. average height for SF is 6'6-6'7, even per ChatGPT 199cm, which is more 6'6..

With that lineup you mentioned, its pretty clear that Jones would defend PG, Ayo SG and Okoro SF and I would have zero issues with that.

[Infinity2152]

Javonte Green and Caruso said hi do you remember what they played many times? Freaking PF because of Billy D.

6'5/6'6 is tall enough for SG and SF especially for guys with bigger frames and good defenders. Of course he would struggle a bit vs big wings, but thats why coaches has different options and matchups.

I'm not saying it's not possible to play SF or PF at 6'5". I'm saying it's inherently going to be harder than SG. Lot of nights you'll be matching up against 6'9-611 SF's. I'm giving him credit, I think his career would have gone better if he was regularly matched up against players his same height, that's all. Personally, I'd prefer my SF 6'7 at least with a long wingspan to add to my defensive length. If you're shorter than both the guards, does it matter what we call you? You're still not bringing extra height or length. Works with a 6'8 PG, but what about if we resign Tre Jones? Could be looking at 6'1 Tre Jones, 6'4 Ayo Dosunmu, 6'5" Isaac Okoro on the court at the same time.

Caruso and Green are freaks and both guards, they can just defend multiple positions because they're that good. They played every position except center because we had no forwards besides Pat.

To be honest, 6'9 - 6'11 height is PF size, especially in modern NBA where we also see a lot of 6'8 and 6'9 small ball centers.. average height for SF is 6'6-6'7, even per ChatGPT 199cm, which is more 6'6..

With that lineup you mentioned, its pretty clear that Jones would defend PG, Ayo SG and Okoro SF and I would have zero issues with that.

I Googled it after the conversation. It came back 6'7" for SF. Checked another AI, 6'6.75", or 6'7" for 2024-2025 season. casino.org has it at 6'6.5", or 6'7".

NBA.com has the average height of an NBA player entering 2024-2025 season is 6'7".

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-roster-survey-facts-2024-25-season

So I stand by 6'7. Google has the average height of PF's at 6'8.2 in 2024, so basically 1 inch taller than SF.

Any way you want to quibble, it's undersized for a SF. All season saw all these complaints about Donovan running 4 guard lineups. I assume the reason is because people want height on the court. Why anyone would want a player built like Okoro vs a player built like Matas or Lauri at SF is really beyond me. What's the advantages of having a shorter forward? Not additional rebounding, shot blocking, rim protection, you know forward type things. Again, don't see the argument. He just played SF and we see how he plays that. Forwards are supposed to out-rebound guards.

It's almost like we forgot basketball is a big man's sport and height and length matter A LOT. Still not many guys making the league under 6' and Wemby is what, 7'4"?

That lineup would be good defensively individually, MAYBE. Depends on who you're playing, they're going to be outsized at 3 positions by a lot of teams. Their arms are shorter, less help defense and reach, less rebounding, smaller bodies when bigs get switched as happens often in the NBA.

Comparing him to Caruso is funny. If he had been playing like Caruso at forward, would have packed Lonzo's bags. He's our guy, hopes he works out. Wouldn't have traded Lonzo for a 6'5 average to below average player.

[boozapalooza]

Ayo has to be our backup PG as of right now. Who else is there? Carter? Terry? With the faster pace that could be good for him. We lost a ton of bench playmaking with the Ball trade for all those who wanted Ball gone.

Probably but IDK if he's any better of a PG than Carter. Coby in reality will our backup PG right now anyway. I see his minutes staggered with Matas.

Seems like the Lonzo trade and subsequent Ayo/Coby trade chatter signals we will be trying to resign Tre Jones. He was great when healthy. Should be a very solid backup PG.

[Infinity2152]

Ayo has to be our backup PG as of right now. Who else is there? Carter? Terry? With the faster pace that could be good for him. We lost a ton of bench playmaking with the Ball trade for all those who wanted Ball gone.

Probably but IDK if he's any better of a PG than Carter. Coby in reality will our backup PG right now anyway. I see his minutes staggered with Matas.

Seems like the Lonzo trade and subsequent Ayo/Coby trade chatter signals we will be trying to resign Tre Jones. He was great when healthy. Should be a very solid backup PG.

Was hoping he'd clean house of most of these expirings. Trading Ball and re-signing Tre helps that. Still wish if they were going to trade Ball, they'd have packaged him for a better player, rather than adding another 6'5 mid player. Didn't want to trade him for straight picks but would have preferred that. Whole point of trading an expiring and taking on more money is to get a better player or an asset.

Hopeful for Okoro, since he's ours. Size doesn't matter nearly as much with Giddey at PG. Still don't think he sees many minutes this season, but he could be a core piece next year.