Shams: Masai and Toronto part ways

[zimpy27]

It felt like chasing the Long Bois identity ruined him.

I remember when Lakers were dominant in 19-20 the Raps had waves of big wings that always gave Lakers trouble. I feel like Masai got super high on this and it messed him up.

[One_and_Done]

12 years with Masai
8 of them .585 or better.
.585 = 48 wins, 34 losses
And if course a Championship

18 years without Masai
.573 was their best year

THAT'S why his supporters wanted him kept. He earned it. But with Ed having total control and hating Masai, this was always going to happen.

Actually Masai's win record in Toronto over 12 years was 565.

Dumars win % over 14 years was 526. and he started off in a much worse position, yet everyone now recognises him as a horrible GM. Pelinka, who we can all agree is a rubbish GM, has a 566. win %. When Masai arrives he had Demar, Lowry, and Val, all in hand, and tradeable assets. All 5 of the starters in Masai's first season, when the team win 48 games, had been on the roster the year before. Dumars got there as their franchise star was walking out the door.

Sometimes your win % doesn't reflect how good you were, because you got lucky. As I explained on the previous page, Masai got exposed in recent years. Toronto was smart to cut bait on him before it got worse, rather than say 'well, he earned more time, let's let him dig the hole deeper'. If Masai had ever had the keen basketball mind his fans think, he would never have made the moves he did in recent years.

[Tripod]

12 years with Masai
8 of them .585 or better.
.585 = 48 wins, 34 losses
And if course a Championship

18 years without Masai
.573 was their best year

THAT'S why his supporters wanted him kept. He earned it. But with Ed having total control and hating Masai, this was always going to happen.

Actually Masai's win record in Toronto over 12 years was 565.

Dumars win % over 14 years was 526. and he started off in a much worse position, yet everyone now recognises him as a horrible GM. Pelinka, who we can all agree is a rubbish GM, has a 566. win %. When Masai arrives he had Demar, Lowry, and Val, all in hand, and tradeable assets. All 5 of the starters in Masai's first season, when the team win 48 games, had been on the roster the year before. Dumars got there as their franchise star was walking out the door.

Sometimes your win % doesn't reflect how good you were, because you got lucky. As I explained on the previous page, Masai got exposed in recent years. Toronto was smart to cut bait on him before it got worse, rather than say 'well, he earned more time, let's let him dig the hole deeper'. If Masai had ever had the keen basketball mind his fans think, he would never have made the moves he did in recent years.

Just because you repeate idiotic thinking doesn't make it true.

You want to put it all on luck yet ignore he traded for Ibaka, traded for Kawhi, traded for Green, traded for Gasol, drafted Siakam, drafted OG, drafted Powell, drafted Barnes, signed undrafted FVV, etc... That's not luck.

He litterly only had 2 bad years in Toronto that were unexpected....2023 and 24...then started the rebuild so of course this past season was a down one. And next year the Raps are going to jump up the standings with the help of the moves he already made...like adding BI.

Reality is he was only fired because racist ED hates him. Masai will be fine though.

[R-DAWG]

I get some of what Toronto way trying to build roster wise:

Scotty Barnes was their franchise player

The Siakiam trade made sense since he’s on a different timeline than Barnes and not a perfect fit. The return of the 19th pick in the 2024 draft, a 2026 top 4 protected 1st and a late first that was flipped of Abaji - a 3 and D wing that I like - was solid

The Anunoby trade was not. RJ Barrett isn’t a great fit with Barnes and while I do like Quickely as a 3 and D guard next to Barnes, he’s getting way too much money. They would have been better off keeping Anunoby.

But Toronto’s real issues stem from not accepting the window closed after Kwahi left and Lowry got old. They tried to rebuild on the fly and from the middle and that rarely works. This is how you give up top-10 picks for league average centers. And the Brandon Ingram thing made no sense.

Looking at their roster, they have some interesting young pieces on the perimeter in Grady Dick, Abaji, and JaKobe Walter. But these guys are blocked by Barrett/Ingram.

This was a very poorly executed rebuild.

[R-DAWG]

yep this was overdue. He had a good long run, but hadn't been on his game for years now. This is great news for the Raptors.

Masai really developed a bulletproof aura for awhile based almost solely on the Kawhi trade bringing a championship. Which yes, championships are what you do it for, but everything else seemed pretty mediocre in terms of decision making?

It was more than the Kwahi trade. He found and developed Fred Van Vleet, Pascal Siakiam and Normal Powell - big parts of that team. He stepped up and made the trades to acquire Serge Ibaka and Marc Gasol.

That team was extremely well constructed. Every player could defend and shoot 3’s and Kwahi took them over the top.

The issue was they held onto Siakiam, Van Vleet and Aunoby too long and while they did ok on Siakiam, they got nothing for Van Vleet and missed on the Aunoby trade - then doubled down with Ingram.

I get not wanting to trade Lowey given all he’s meant to the franchise, but once he left and the window closed they needed to cash out on the guys they didn’t want to pay.

[jayjaysee]

I like that they waited long enough to do this to let Dumars save Saleh’s job and block Masai’s next job..

Weird timing though, but the move makes sense..

[oldncreaky]

instead you get to be the team with 90M tied to lavine/derozan/Monk. i prefer our trio

You know I was going to say, not like I enjoy the guys the Kings have. But I didn't want to make this thread about Sac.

That said-

LaVine has 2 years left
DeRozan has 1 + a partial
Monk is on an 20 mil per year deal.
Total is around 191 million owed.

Raptors are on the hook for 307 million with those 3.

I think I'd take the Kings trio with the intention of watching them all leave in 2 years. Neither trio is getting you out of the first round (let alone even to it?)

im hoping ingram opts out and we are left to retool around barnes/IQ in 2 years. at least IQ's contract is flat/should look better. Maybe new management will go scorch earth though who knows.

I'm hoping that they flip BI. He only cost one non-lotto FRP plus a distant SRP to acquire, and if he shows out on court, he should be able to be flipped for significantly more than that at the TDL.

Don't get me wrong, he's very good, and may be the best player on the team if/when he gets on the court. But the archetype of a scoring wing who doesn't do a lot more is not really what I want to have for a near-max contract, and I don't think it's conducive to building a winning roster

[oldncreaky]

The original sin was being unwilling to include Barnes in a Durant offer when they still had O.G., Siakam, and FVV on the roster. That was compounded by not building a roster around Scottie that accounted for his strengths and weaknesses. I don't think Barnes is the best,
or even second best, player on a contender but if the Raptors front office did, then a better effort should've been made to help him out.

This is an excellent point.

Interesting discussion

IMO, the original sin was the contract decisions coming out of COVID.

Masai attempted to keep together most of the 2019-2020 squad that went 53-19 in the COVID-shortened season. To do that, he squeezed OG into a below value extension, and squeezed FVV into a 4/84 deal; with both of those contracts, he added on POs to get the players to accept the lower number. With the scant money left over, he tried to squeeze one of either Ibaka or Gasol into a salary just over the MLE.

Result? Both Ibaka and Gasol bolted, and the C position was the worst in the league for 2 years until he overpaid to fix that problem with Poeltl. Then OG and FVV fairly predictably outplayed their contract to the extent that (1) they could not be extended and (2) they wanted to maximise their earnings in FA.

And then, having dug himself a hole with too many core pieces coming up on free agency, he spent all his time ignoring the glaring holes at C and backup PG, and the clock ran out so that the net haul for Siakam, Anunoby and VanVleet was a whole bunch of value destruction.

[Tripod]

The original sin was being unwilling to include Barnes in a Durant offer when they still had O.G., Siakam, and FVV on the roster. That was compounded by not building a roster around Scottie that accounted for his strengths and weaknesses. I don't think Barnes is the best,
or even second best, player on a contender but if the Raptors front office did, then a better effort should've been made to help him out.

This is an excellent point.

Interesting discussion

IMO, the original sin was the contract decisions coming out of COVID.

Masai attempted to keep together most of the 2019-2020 squad that went 53-19 in the COVID-shortened season. To do that, he squeezed OG into a below value extension, and squeezed FVV into a 4/84 deal; with both of those contracts, he added on POs to get the players to accept the lower number. With the scant money left over, he tried to squeeze one of either Ibaka or Gasol into a salary just over the MLE.

Result? Both Ibaka and Gasol bolted, and the C position was the worst in the league for 2 years until he overpaid to fix that problem with Poeltl. Then OG and FVV fairly predictably outplayed their contract to the extent that (1) they could not be extended and (2) they wanted to maximise their earnings in FA.

And then, having dug himself a hole with too many core pieces coming up on free agency, he spent all his time ignoring the glaring holes at C and backup PG, and the clock ran out so that the net haul for Siakam, Anunoby and VanVleet was a whole bunch of value destruction.

Yet somehow still ended up with this from FVV, OG and Siakam:

22+ point BI age 27
21+point RJ age 25
17+ point IQ age 26
10+ point 3+D Ochai age 25
Rookie Walter
Rookie Shead from TPE created by trading PS
Rookie Mogbo
Just drafted Martin from TPE above
Future 2nd from TPE above

He did fail in replacing Serge and Gasol, but they were cooked and he was smart not to pay them. Serge played 111 more NBA games, Gasol 52.

[oldncreaky]

This is an excellent point.

Interesting discussion

IMO, the original sin was the contract decisions coming out of COVID.

Masai attempted to keep together most of the 2019-2020 squad that went 53-19 in the COVID-shortened season. To do that, he squeezed OG into a below value extension, and squeezed FVV into a 4/84 deal; with both of those contracts, he added on POs to get the players to accept the lower number. With the scant money left over, he tried to squeeze one of either Ibaka or Gasol into a salary just over the MLE.

Result? Both Ibaka and Gasol bolted, and the C position was the worst in the league for 2 years until he overpaid to fix that problem with Poeltl. Then OG and FVV fairly predictably outplayed their contract to the extent that (1) they could not be extended and (2) they wanted to maximise their earnings in FA.

And then, having dug himself a hole with too many core pieces coming up on free agency, he spent all his time ignoring the glaring holes at C and backup PG, and the clock ran out so that the net haul for Siakam, Anunoby and VanVleet was a whole bunch of value destruction.

Yet somehow still ended up with this from FVV, OG and Siakam:

22+ point BI age 27
21+point RJ age 25
17+ point IQ age 26
10+ point 3+D Ochai age 25
Rookie Walter
Rookie Shead from TPE created by trading PS
Rookie Mogbo
Just drafted Martin from TPE above
Future 2nd from TPE above

He did fail in replacing Serge and Gasol, but they were cooked and he was smart not to pay them. Serge played 111 more NBA games, Gasol 52.

I agree that's what they got from Siakam, FVV and OG -- I just think it's about 50 cents on the dollar

For whatever flaws the former Raptors had, each of them is someone you absolutely want on a playoff team; each of them will be on the floor in a close game late in the playoffs; each of them warrants being a core piece on a contender. For all the assets they got for them, I'm not sure if a single one of them can/will ever play meaningful starter minutes in a CF or Finals -- it's all maybe and potential, with questions about fit. We'll see.

I do agree that the Cs turned out to be washed. It makes it all the more frustrating that they signed FVV and OG to contracts that underpaid them (and made it likely the Raptors would lose them) in order to save money for guys who were washed. And of course, they would not have had to choose if the Raptors were willing to go into the tax to keep together a 53-19 team.

[One_and_Done]

12 years with Masai
8 of them .585 or better.
.585 = 48 wins, 34 losses
And if course a Championship

18 years without Masai
.573 was their best year

THAT'S why his supporters wanted him kept. He earned it. But with Ed having total control and hating Masai, this was always going to happen.

Actually Masai's win record in Toronto over 12 years was 565.

Dumars win % over 14 years was 526. and he started off in a much worse position, yet everyone now recognises him as a horrible GM. Pelinka, who we can all agree is a rubbish GM, has a 566. win %. When Masai arrives he had Demar, Lowry, and Val, all in hand, and tradeable assets. All 5 of the starters in Masai's first season, when the team win 48 games, had been on the roster the year before. Dumars got there as their franchise star was walking out the door.

Sometimes your win % doesn't reflect how good you were, because you got lucky. As I explained on the previous page, Masai got exposed in recent years. Toronto was smart to cut bait on him before it got worse, rather than say 'well, he earned more time, let's let him dig the hole deeper'. If Masai had ever had the keen basketball mind his fans think, he would never have made the moves he did in recent years.

Just because you repeate idiotic thinking doesn't make it true.

You want to put it all on luck yet ignore he traded for Ibaka, traded for Kawhi, traded for Green, traded for Gasol, drafted Siakam, drafted OG, drafted Powell, drafted Barnes, signed undrafted FVV, etc... That's not luck.

He litterly only had 2 bad years in Toronto that were unexpected....2023 and 24...then started the rebuild so of course this past season was a down one. And next year the Raps are going to jump up the standings with the help of the moves he already made...like adding BI.

Reality is he was only fired because racist ED hates him. Masai will be fine though.

Masai made some good moves too, but if he really had a good eye for talent the last 4 years wouldn't have happened. He's left the Raptors in a tough spot moving forward, after blowing several years, and seems completely lacking awareness as to what's gone wrong.

[One_and_Done]

This is an excellent point.

Interesting discussion

IMO, the original sin was the contract decisions coming out of COVID.

Masai attempted to keep together most of the 2019-2020 squad that went 53-19 in the COVID-shortened season. To do that, he squeezed OG into a below value extension, and squeezed FVV into a 4/84 deal; with both of those contracts, he added on POs to get the players to accept the lower number. With the scant money left over, he tried to squeeze one of either Ibaka or Gasol into a salary just over the MLE.

Result? Both Ibaka and Gasol bolted, and the C position was the worst in the league for 2 years until he overpaid to fix that problem with Poeltl. Then OG and FVV fairly predictably outplayed their contract to the extent that (1) they could not be extended and (2) they wanted to maximise their earnings in FA.

And then, having dug himself a hole with too many core pieces coming up on free agency, he spent all his time ignoring the glaring holes at C and backup PG, and the clock ran out so that the net haul for Siakam, Anunoby and VanVleet was a whole bunch of value destruction.

Yet somehow still ended up with this from FVV, OG and Siakam:

22+ point BI age 27
21+point RJ age 25
17+ point IQ age 26
10+ point 3+D Ochai age 25
Rookie Walter
Rookie Shead from TPE created by trading PS
Rookie Mogbo
Just drafted Martin from TPE above
Future 2nd from TPE above

He did fail in replacing Serge and Gasol, but they were cooked and he was smart not to pay them. Serge played 111 more NBA games, Gasol 52.

Ricky Davis averaged 20ppg once too. Those are not great players, and he's significantly overpaid them.

[ReggiesKnicks]

This is an excellent point.

Interesting discussion

IMO, the original sin was the contract decisions coming out of COVID.

Masai attempted to keep together most of the 2019-2020 squad that went 53-19 in the COVID-shortened season. To do that, he squeezed OG into a below value extension, and squeezed FVV into a 4/84 deal; with both of those contracts, he added on POs to get the players to accept the lower number. With the scant money left over, he tried to squeeze one of either Ibaka or Gasol into a salary just over the MLE.

Result? Both Ibaka and Gasol bolted, and the C position was the worst in the league for 2 years until he overpaid to fix that problem with Poeltl. Then OG and FVV fairly predictably outplayed their contract to the extent that (1) they could not be extended and (2) they wanted to maximise their earnings in FA.

And then, having dug himself a hole with too many core pieces coming up on free agency, he spent all his time ignoring the glaring holes at C and backup PG, and the clock ran out so that the net haul for Siakam, Anunoby and VanVleet was a whole bunch of value destruction.

Yet somehow still ended up with this from FVV, OG and Siakam:

22+ point BI age 27
21+point RJ age 25
17+ point IQ age 26
10+ point 3+D Ochai age 25
Rookie Walter
Rookie Shead from TPE created by trading PS
Rookie Mogbo
Just drafted Martin from TPE above
Future 2nd from TPE above

He did fail in replacing Serge and Gasol, but they were cooked and he was smart not to pay them. Serge played 111 more NBA games, Gasol 52.

If all that matters is PPG, Demar Derozan is better than all these players

[Tripod]

Actually Masai's win record in Toronto over 12 years was 565.

Dumars win % over 14 years was 526. and he started off in a much worse position, yet everyone now recognises him as a horrible GM. Pelinka, who we can all agree is a rubbish GM, has a 566. win %. When Masai arrives he had Demar, Lowry, and Val, all in hand, and tradeable assets. All 5 of the starters in Masai's first season, when the team win 48 games, had been on the roster the year before. Dumars got there as their franchise star was walking out the door.

Sometimes your win % doesn't reflect how good you were, because you got lucky. As I explained on the previous page, Masai got exposed in recent years. Toronto was smart to cut bait on him before it got worse, rather than say 'well, he earned more time, let's let him dig the hole deeper'. If Masai had ever had the keen basketball mind his fans think, he would never have made the moves he did in recent years.

Just because you repeate idiotic thinking doesn't make it true.

You want to put it all on luck yet ignore he traded for Ibaka, traded for Kawhi, traded for Green, traded for Gasol, drafted Siakam, drafted OG, drafted Powell, drafted Barnes, signed undrafted FVV, etc... That's not luck.

He litterly only had 2 bad years in Toronto that were unexpected....2023 and 24...then started the rebuild so of course this past season was a down one. And next year the Raps are going to jump up the standings with the help of the moves he already made...like adding BI.

Reality is he was only fired because racist ED hates him. Masai will be fine though.

Masai made some good moves too, but if he really had a good eye for talent the last 4 years wouldn't have happened. He's left the Raptors in a tough spot moving forward, after blowing several years, and seems completely lacking awareness as to what's gone wrong.

People make mistakes. Plus,

A team of Siakam, OG, Barnes, FVV, GTJ, etc... coached by Nurse should not be a bad team, right?

The team culture disintegrated with Nurse allowing selfish play by the leaders of the team. He didn't care because he himself was checked out and knew he was leading.

And it wasn't 4 years. They won 48 games in 21/22 and had rookie of the year. Another year was .500 not good, not bad, just meh. Then the rebound started the following year.

And the Raps are not in a tough spot. They are freaking young. If nothing changes, their starters are 23, 25, 26, 27 and 29 as of today. Their bench is 20, 20, 21, 22, 23, 23, 24, 25.

But you have your mind made up. They will jump up the win column next year after trying their best to lose games this year and often won anyways.

[One_and_Done]

Just because you repeate idiotic thinking doesn't make it true.

You want to put it all on luck yet ignore he traded for Ibaka, traded for Kawhi, traded for Green, traded for Gasol, drafted Siakam, drafted OG, drafted Powell, drafted Barnes, signed undrafted FVV, etc... That's not luck.

He litterly only had 2 bad years in Toronto that were unexpected....2023 and 24...then started the rebuild so of course this past season was a down one. And next year the Raps are going to jump up the standings with the help of the moves he already made...like adding BI.

Reality is he was only fired because racist ED hates him. Masai will be fine though.

Masai made some good moves too, but if he really had a good eye for talent the last 4 years wouldn't have happened. He's left the Raptors in a tough spot moving forward, after blowing several years, and seems completely lacking awareness as to what's gone wrong.

People make mistakes. Plus,

A team of Siakam, OG, Barnes, FVV, GTJ, etc... coached by Nurse should not be a bad team, right?

The team culture disintegrated with Nurse allowing selfish play by the leaders of the team. He didn't care because he himself was checked out and knew he was leading.

And it wasn't 4 years. They won 48 games in 21/22 and had rookie of the year. Another year was .500 not good, not bad, just meh. Then the rebound started the following year.

And the Raps are not in a tough spot. They are freaking young. If nothing changes, their starters are 23, 25, 26, 27 and 29 as of today. Their bench is 20, 20, 21, 22, 23, 23, 24, 25.

But you have your mind made up. They will jump up the win column next year after trying their best to lose games this year and often won anyways.

It's true that people make mistakes. That's why the best companies focus on having a good process. With the right vision, even an incompetent front office can succeed. The problem is that Masai's vision has been garbage in recent years, and it's revealed he was never the genius he was lauded as. It is also a reminder of how dangerous it is to rely on someone who thinks they're a genius, rather than on good process.

The Raptors vision and execution has been rubbish for at least 4 years, and Masai has locked you into capped out mediocrity for years. It's going to take years to turn this team back into a contender, and worse I'm not even sure they can limp into the Eastern playoffs with this crew in the short term.

[Tripod]

Masai made some good moves too, but if he really had a good eye for talent the last 4 years wouldn't have happened. He's left the Raptors in a tough spot moving forward, after blowing several years, and seems completely lacking awareness as to what's gone wrong.

People make mistakes. Plus,

A team of Siakam, OG, Barnes, FVV, GTJ, etc... coached by Nurse should not be a bad team, right?

The team culture disintegrated with Nurse allowing selfish play by the leaders of the team. He didn't care because he himself was checked out and knew he was leading.

And it wasn't 4 years. They won 48 games in 21/22 and had rookie of the year. Another year was .500 not good, not bad, just meh. Then the rebound started the following year.

And the Raps are not in a tough spot. They are freaking young. If nothing changes, their starters are 23, 25, 26, 27 and 29 as of today. Their bench is 20, 20, 21, 22, 23, 23, 24, 25.

But you have your mind made up. They will jump up the win column next year after trying their best to lose games this year and often won anyways.

It's true that people make mistakes. That's why the best companies focus on having a good process. With the right vision, even an incompetent front office can succeed. The problem is that Masai's vision has been garbage in recent years, and it's revealed he was never the genius he was lauded as. It is also a reminder of how dangerous it is to rely on someone who thinks they're a genius, rather than on good process.

The Raptors vision and execution has been rubbish for at least 4 years, and Masai has locked you into capped out mediocrity for years. It's going to take years to turn this team back into a contender, and worse I'm not even sure they can limp into the Eastern playoffs with this crew in the short term.

Even if they climb the standings next year people will give Webster the credit.

And again you keep saying 4 years when one was a .500 year and another was .585, 48-34. And that would be the BEST RAPTOR SEASON EVER in the 18 years not under Masai.

His last 4 years have gone: good(.585), disppointing(.500), bad start and started rebuild, continued rebuild. Next year they will be a playoff team.

[One_and_Done]

People make mistakes. Plus,

A team of Siakam, OG, Barnes, FVV, GTJ, etc... coached by Nurse should not be a bad team, right?

The team culture disintegrated with Nurse allowing selfish play by the leaders of the team. He didn't care because he himself was checked out and knew he was leading.

And it wasn't 4 years. They won 48 games in 21/22 and had rookie of the year. Another year was .500 not good, not bad, just meh. Then the rebound started the following year.

And the Raps are not in a tough spot. They are freaking young. If nothing changes, their starters are 23, 25, 26, 27 and 29 as of today. Their bench is 20, 20, 21, 22, 23, 23, 24, 25.

But you have your mind made up. They will jump up the win column next year after trying their best to lose games this year and often won anyways.

It's true that people make mistakes. That's why the best companies focus on having a good process. With the right vision, even an incompetent front office can succeed. The problem is that Masai's vision has been garbage in recent years, and it's revealed he was never the genius he was lauded as. It is also a reminder of how dangerous it is to rely on someone who thinks they're a genius, rather than on good process.

The Raptors vision and execution has been rubbish for at least 4 years, and Masai has locked you into capped out mediocrity for years. It's going to take years to turn this team back into a contender, and worse I'm not even sure they can limp into the Eastern playoffs with this crew in the short term.

Even if they climb the standings next year people will give Webster the credit.

And again you keep saying 4 years when one was a .500 year and another was .585, 48-34. And that would be the BEST RAPTOR SEASON EVER in the 18 years not under Masai.

His last 4 years have gone: good(.585), disppointing(.500), bad start and started rebuild, continued rebuild. Next year they will be a playoff team.

His last 4 years have been awful. They have chained the team to mediocrity for years, when they could have either rebuilt properly, or kept the band together and been a 50 win team each year. This isn't an overreaction to this year's playoffs on my part btw, I was calling it out years ago:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2405854&start=100#p114879190

[Tripod]

It's true that people make mistakes. That's why the best companies focus on having a good process. With the right vision, even an incompetent front office can succeed. The problem is that Masai's vision has been garbage in recent years, and it's revealed he was never the genius he was lauded as. It is also a reminder of how dangerous it is to rely on someone who thinks they're a genius, rather than on good process.

The Raptors vision and execution has been rubbish for at least 4 years, and Masai has locked you into capped out mediocrity for years. It's going to take years to turn this team back into a contender, and worse I'm not even sure they can limp into the Eastern playoffs with this crew in the short term.

Even if they climb the standings next year people will give Webster the credit.

And again you keep saying 4 years when one was a .500 year and another was .585, 48-34. And that would be the BEST RAPTOR SEASON EVER in the 18 years not under Masai.

His last 4 years have gone: good(.585), disppointing(.500), bad start and started rebuild, continued rebuild. Next year they will be a playoff team.

His last 4 years have been awful. They have chained the team to mediocrity for years, when they could have either rebuilt properly, or kept the band together and been a 50 win team each year. This isn't an overreaction to this year's playoffs on my part btw, I was calling it out years ago:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2405854&start=100#p114879190

And by years ago you mean Sept 2024...look after the date!

Kept the band together? The band of FVV, OG, Siakam that you are bitching about the results the last few years?

[One_and_Done]

Even if they climb the standings next year people will give Webster the credit.

And again you keep saying 4 years when one was a .500 year and another was .585, 48-34. And that would be the BEST RAPTOR SEASON EVER in the 18 years not under Masai.

His last 4 years have gone: good(.585), disppointing(.500), bad start and started rebuild, continued rebuild. Next year they will be a playoff team.

His last 4 years have been awful. They have chained the team to mediocrity for years, when they could have either rebuilt properly, or kept the band together and been a 50 win team each year. This isn't an overreaction to this year's playoffs on my part btw, I was calling it out years ago:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2405854&start=100#p114879190

And by years ago you mean Sept 2024...look after the date!

Kept the band together? The band of FVV, OG, Siakam that you are bitching about the results the last few years?

I was calling for it long before then.

I wouldn't have cared if the Raptors kept the core together, or blew it up. Either option was perfectly reasonable. What is not reasonable is the 3rd option that Masai has taken, of doing neither.

The core problem is essentially Masai’s ego. First he didn't trade guys because, even though he couldn't come to any agreement on extensions, he was convinced that as a master negotiator future Masai would sort it out. After losing FVV & Lowry for nothing Masai seemed to finally realise he should trade OG & Siakam if he couldn't extend them, though he waited for the last possible moment to do it (which reduced both of their value).

Then you look at what he traded OG and Siakam for. He keeps trying to make win now trades, which if you think about it for even a second won't work. The whole reason that the other team wants guys like OG or Siakam is to 'win now', so logically they're not going to send you back more 'winning' players, or else why are they doing the deal. But Masai is so egotistical, he genuinely believed he could move these guys and the team would improve, which you only think if you believe everyone is dumber than you. It's the exact same mistake we saw Dumars make. He'd been on the right end of some fleecings, and so he became convinced he was a genius, when he mostly got lucky.

Masai is not a genius. He is paying more for losing players like RJ, Quickley, Ingram, etc, than he'd have paid to just keep his core around. The Raptors now have long term money committed to these mediocre players, and the new GM is frantically trying to move them out ASAP. If Masai was so insightful he wouldn't have built the team around Barnes, a player who is not worth even half of what he is paid. It's Masai's lack.of vision, and doubling down on mistakes to try and validate his 'genius', that has left the Raptors in a horrid position moving forward.

[Madvillainy2004]

I get some of what Toronto way trying to build roster wise:

Scotty Barnes was their franchise player

The Siakiam trade made sense since he’s on a different timeline than Barnes and not a perfect fit. The return of the 19th pick in the 2024 draft, a 2026 top 4 protected 1st and a late first that was flipped of Abaji - a 3 and D wing that I like - was solid

The Anunoby trade was not. RJ Barrett isn’t a great fit with Barnes and while I do like Quickely as a 3 and D guard next to Barnes, he’s getting way too much money. They would have been better off keeping Anunoby.

But Toronto’s real issues stem from not accepting the window closed after Kwahi left and Lowry got old. They tried to rebuild on the fly and from the middle and that rarely works. This is how you give up top-10 picks for league average centers. And the Brandon Ingram thing made no sense.

Looking at their roster, they have some interesting young pieces on the perimeter in Grady Dick, Abaji, and JaKobe Walter. But these guys are blocked by Barrett/Ingram.

This was a very poorly executed rebuild.

OG was never staying and has really close ties to the GM in New York he basically demanded to be traded there.