Suns get Sexton w/Jazz & Clips

[jredsaz]

Suns receive Collin Sexton, Derrick Jones Jr.
Out: Jalen Green
Suns save some money and hope that Sexton can rediscover some PG skills. DJJ fits their athleticism needs.

Jazz receive Jalen Green, Bogdan Bogdanovic
Out: John Collins
Jazz take a flyer on Jalen Green to reach his potential. He fits long term with their youth. Bogdan can be a trade piece now or moving forward.

Clippers get John Collins
Out: Bogdan Bogdanovic, Derrick Jones Jr
Clips move two smaller wings for a larger wing who fits their roster. They also shave money off their cap for 26/27.

[clippertown]

Don't see the Clippers trading DJJ as he is in a position of need. Clips likely offer Bogi and Dunn to find a forward who can rebound and shoot 3's. The first choice would be for Collins and the second choice for someone like Rui Hachimura. Replace DJJ with Dunn and it's a yes from the Clippers.

[babyjax13]

Utah is owed a pretty significant amount here. We trade the two best players in the deal for the two worst and we take in the worst contract.

[hugepatsfan]

Bad deals for UTA and Clippers. Utah should demand at least 1 way for taking on Green’s deal. LAC part was addressed before.

Collins to LAC makes sense but doesn’t need Phoenix.

[jredsaz]

Utah is owed a pretty significant amount here. We trade the two best players in the deal for the two worst and we take in the worst contract.

So this is where we are at for Jalen Green? Jazz getting the most upside player in this deal and he fits their timeline. With the Jazz cap sheet and the fact that Sexton and Collins are out the door, why is Greens salary an issue?

[jredsaz]

Bad deals for UTA and Clippers. Utah should demand at least 1 way for taking on Green’s deal. LAC part was addressed before.

Collins to LAC makes sense but doesn’t need Phoenix.

You really think Greens deal v his upside is that bad? Especially for a team with plenty of cap and looking for upside plays.

[jredsaz]

Don't see the Clippers trading DJJ as he is in a position of need. Clips likely offer Bogi and Dunn to find a forward who can rebound and shoot 3's. The first choice would be for Collins and the second choice for someone like Rui Hachimura. Replace DJJ with Dunn and it's a yes from the Clippers.

I do have a hard time believing that DJJ is off the table for John Collins.

[hugepatsfan]

Bad deals for UTA and Clippers. Utah should demand at least 1 way for taking on Green’s deal. LAC part was addressed before.

Collins to LAC makes sense but doesn’t need Phoenix.

You really think Greens deal v his upside is that bad? Especially for a team with plenty of cap and looking for upside plays.

Yes I do think it’s that bad and so does mostly everyone on this board. There are only two grouped of people who treat that contract positively:

1) Rockets fans before the Durant trade
2) Phoenix fans since the Durant trade

I do think that history shows NBA teams treat talented players better than a lot of fans on deals like this. Most fans on here would argue Utah is owed a ton. I think they’d be owed something but less than what people here would expect. Still something though, which you didn’t have in your deal.

[eminence]

I have negative interest in Jalen Green in Utah.

[hugepatsfan]

Don't see the Clippers trading DJJ as he is in a position of need. Clips likely offer Bogi and Dunn to find a forward who can rebound and shoot 3's. The first choice would be for Collins and the second choice for someone like Rui Hachimura. Replace DJJ with Dunn and it's a yes from the Clippers.

I do have a hard time believing that DJJ is off the table for John Collins.

I doubt he’s “off the table” in extreme rigidness, but he’s not someone LAC would want to deal and he wouldn’t be needed to give Utah the value they’d need to part with Collins. The Collins to LAC deal can be done to Utah’s satisfaction and better for LAC without DJJ to Phoenix for free.

[babyjax13]

Utah is owed a pretty significant amount here. We trade the two best players in the deal for the two worst and we take in the worst contract.

So this is where we are at for Jalen Green? Jazz getting the most upside player in this deal and he fits their timeline. With the Jazz cap sheet and the fact that Sexton and Collins are out the door, why is Greens salary an issue?

Because it is a bad contract. I am happy to see if we can develop him, but we are both downgrading Sexton very significantly and taking on Green's money. I think - at minimum - Utah is owed a first here. If he weren't so young we'd probably be owed a first for each year of salary. I also don't like his offensive fit with Ace.

[jredsaz]

Utah is owed a pretty significant amount here. We trade the two best players in the deal for the two worst and we take in the worst contract.

So this is where we are at for Jalen Green? Jazz getting the most upside player in this deal and he fits their timeline. With the Jazz cap sheet and the fact that Sexton and Collins are out the door, why is Greens salary an issue?

Because it is a bad contract. I am happy to see if we can develop him, but we are both downgrading Sexton very significantly and taking on Green's money. I think - at minimum - Utah is owed a first here. If he weren't so young we'd probably be owed a first for each year of salary. I also don't like his offensive fit with Ace.

Wow. I didn’t want Jalen Green as the best player coming back in a KD trade but I recognize his upside. Think the upside is better than Sexton at 26. I’m not super high on Green at all but a long term, big money deal with Sexton next offseason isn’t great either and he has probably reached his ceiling.

And again, why are contracts a big deal in Utah? These are the kind of guys that they should be spending space on.

[babyjax13]

So this is where we are at for Jalen Green? Jazz getting the most upside player in this deal and he fits their timeline. With the Jazz cap sheet and the fact that Sexton and Collins are out the door, why is Greens salary an issue?

Because it is a bad contract. I am happy to see if we can develop him, but we are both downgrading Sexton very significantly and taking on Green's money. I think - at minimum - Utah is owed a first here. If he weren't so young we'd probably be owed a first for each year of salary. I also don't like his offensive fit with Ace.

Wow. I didn’t want Jalen Green as the best player coming back in a KD trade but I recognize his upside. Think the upside is better than Sexton at 26. I’m not super high on Green at all but a long term, big money deal with Sexton next offseason isn’t great either and he has probably reached his ceiling.

And again, why are contracts a big deal in Utah? These are the kind of guys that they should be spending space on.

Sexton is a 60%TS player who has been neutral to positive in BPM for Utah (-0.6 to +1.9) and has averaged 24ppg on 58%TS before. Green has negative to neutral BPM (-2.9 to +0.5) and is a career 54%TS player (in fact, he has been at 54% every season of his career). He is one of the least efficient players in the league and he is supposed to be a scorer. I am open to trading for him, but I think is really revisionary to suggest he has even neutral value. If the trade were ... Clarkson and KJ Martin, I'd be open to it without the pick just to see if there could be something there. But now that we are putting together an actual young core and have drafted a young scorer who will probably suck just as much as Jalen Green does this year, I want no part of watching them together if it means sacrificing value on Sexton/Collins.

RE: upside - does he have the upside to be an uber-efficient offensive perimeter player like Sexton? I actually don't think he does, or that he will ever be as effective of a scorer or be able to run an offense. I think his advantage is defense. He isn't exactly known for that, but I don't think he is terrible.

I should also mention that I think I am higher on Green than the board. Go look at the 10 worst contracts list. Green is on it (I think RJ Barrett's contract is worse, but ymmv).

[SkyHook]

So this is where we are at for Jalen Green? Jazz getting the most upside player in this deal and he fits their timeline. With the Jazz cap sheet and the fact that Sexton and Collins are out the door, why is Greens salary an issue?

Because it is a bad contract. I am happy to see if we can develop him, but we are both downgrading Sexton very significantly and taking on Green's money. I think - at minimum - Utah is owed a first here. If he weren't so young we'd probably be owed a first for each year of salary. I also don't like his offensive fit with Ace.

Wow. I didn’t want Jalen Green as the best player coming back in a KD trade but I recognize his upside. Think the upside is better than Sexton at 26. I’m not super high on Green at all but a long term, big money deal with Sexton next offseason isn’t great either and he has probably reached his ceiling.

And again, why are contracts a big deal in Utah? These are the kind of guys that they should be spending space on.

•"He's young so he has upside" is one of the most ridiculous tropes in basketball. Not all young players improve; some plateau, some regress.
•I doubt Sexton's next contract is for as much as Green's. Contracts matter for many reasons, not the least of which is opportunity cost of what you might otherwise do with the salary slot. And no one should be spending this kind of money on Green.
•If you're convinced that Green's upside is higher than Sexton's, by all means please keep him. I wish you many happy years together.

[babyjax13]

I should also say that we are incentivized to not help Phoenix dig out from the weight of their bad decisions.

[jredsaz]

I should also say that we are incentivized to not help Phoenix dig out from the weight of their bad decisions.

This is where we disagree.

[Daddy 801]

So this is where we are at for Jalen Green? Jazz getting the most upside player in this deal and he fits their timeline. With the Jazz cap sheet and the fact that Sexton and Collins are out the door, why is Greens salary an issue?

Because it is a bad contract. I am happy to see if we can develop him, but we are both downgrading Sexton very significantly and taking on Green's money. I think - at minimum - Utah is owed a first here. If he weren't so young we'd probably be owed a first for each year of salary. I also don't like his offensive fit with Ace.

Wow. I didn’t want Jalen Green as the best player coming back in a KD trade but I recognize his upside. Think the upside is better than Sexton at 26. I’m not super high on Green at all but a long term, big money deal with Sexton next offseason isn’t great either and he has probably reached his ceiling.

And again, why are contracts a big deal in Utah? These are the kind of guys that they should be spending space on.

Because cap space can be used more efficiently to bring back better assets. Utahs cap space is not the dumpster of other franchises.

[SA37]

Utah is owed a pretty significant amount here. We trade the two best players in the deal for the two worst and we take in the worst contract.

So this is where we are at for Jalen Green? Jazz getting the most upside player in this deal and he fits their timeline. With the Jazz cap sheet and the fact that Sexton and Collins are out the door, why is Greens salary an issue?

I thought the trade was pretty fair overall.

Jalen Green's contract is actually pretty good compared to his comps, if only because it is 3 years v 5 years. His salary will be ~20% of the cap according to Spotrac.

Just for comparison to guys from his draft class: Trey Murphy (4-years, $112M), Jalen Suggs (5-years, $150M), Franz Wagner (5-years, $225M). TBD: Giddey, Kuminga, and Cam Thomas.

Then compare with Herro (4-years, $120M), Garland (5-years, $197M), Jordan Poole (4-years, $128M), RJ Barrett (4-years, $107M), Brandon Ingram (3-years, $120), or Immanuel Quickley (5-years, $162M).

[jredsaz]

Because it is a bad contract. I am happy to see if we can develop him, but we are both downgrading Sexton very significantly and taking on Green's money. I think - at minimum - Utah is owed a first here. If he weren't so young we'd probably be owed a first for each year of salary. I also don't like his offensive fit with Ace.

Wow. I didn’t want Jalen Green as the best player coming back in a KD trade but I recognize his upside. Think the upside is better than Sexton at 26. I’m not super high on Green at all but a long term, big money deal with Sexton next offseason isn’t great either and he has probably reached his ceiling.

And again, why are contracts a big deal in Utah? These are the kind of guys that they should be spending space on.

•"He's young so he has upside" is one of the most ridiculous tropes in basketball. Not all young players improve; some plateau, some regress.
•I doubt Sexton's next contract is for as much as Green's. Contracts matter for many reasons, not the least of which is opportunity cost of what you might otherwise do with the salary slot. And no one should be spending this kind of money on Green.
•If you're convinced that Green's upside is higher than Sexton's, by all means please keep him. I wish you many happy years together.

As a suns fan I’m actually very happy to keep Green. I just think Sexton might fit better next to book next year. But I agree, Sexton probably won’t get as large of a contract because of his upside vs Green. Upside for a team like the Jazz and Suns is super important. You can dismiss upside all you want but it’s important in valuing young players.

[SkyHook]

Wow. I didn’t want Jalen Green as the best player coming back in a KD trade but I recognize his upside. Think the upside is better than Sexton at 26. I’m not super high on Green at all but a long term, big money deal with Sexton next offseason isn’t great either and he has probably reached his ceiling.

And again, why are contracts a big deal in Utah? These are the kind of guys that they should be spending space on.

•"He's young so he has upside" is one of the most ridiculous tropes in basketball. Not all young players improve; some plateau, some regress.
•I doubt Sexton's next contract is for as much as Green's. Contracts matter for many reasons, not the least of which is opportunity cost of what you might otherwise do with the salary slot. And no one should be spending this kind of money on Green.
•If you're convinced that Green's upside is higher than Sexton's, by all means please keep him. I wish you many happy years together.

As a suns fan I’m actually very happy to keep Green. I just think Sexton might fit better next to book next year. But I agree, Sexton probably won’t get as large of a contract because of his upside vs Green. Upside for a team like the Jazz and Suns is super important. You can dismiss upside all you want but it’s important in valuing young players.

He's four years in, what upside do you think he has left? At some point, usually evident by the end of their rookie deal, players just are who they are. In Green's case — a high volume chucker who provides nothing else. No thanks.