Shams: Lonzo for Okoro

[JohnnyKILLroy]

I like the trade and find AKs new approach to be very interesting very curious to see how this all plays out.

[GoBlue72391]

I like this. Defensive wing with athleticism and an ever improving 3-ball. Former #5 draft pick and he’s still young. All it cost was Lonzo who hasn’t done squat in about 3 years. Some of you are never satisfied it seems.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but if we traded Pat that is exactly what the fans of his new team would be saying to convince themselves it was a good trade.

Okoro spent the last two years being a steady, effective NBA 3-D wing. Pat did not. Okoro has a nice floor. Pat’s floor is last year, which is of no benefit to anyone.

That two fanbases might ignorantly react in a similar way does not make them in fact similar.

Look at their per 36 numbers over their career. They're the same player. Obviously, I don't mean that entirely literally, but they produce more or less the same. The big difference is Okoro is a worse shooter than Pat on even lower volume.

Pat 13/5/2/1 on 45/39/77 on 4.2 3PA

Okoro 11/4/2/1 on 47/35/73 on 3.7 3PA

I think Okoro is better at this point though, because after that disastrous season Pat might be done. They're both ass and they both fill similar roles and they both produce similar numbers.

We're talking 10th men at best.

[kodo]

A lot of people are complaining about people complaining about this trade.

We could have traded Lonzo 4 months ago for a 1st. Now we traded him for a bust who's very similar to several guys we already have on the roster.

Why should we be happy we made a worse trade?

We don't know the protections on that 1st, it's most lively would've been a fake first like the Blazers pick in which case it's worthless plus adding Smart.

Debatable as to whether this is a worse trade given Okoro hasn't played yet. A lot of people said the same about Giddey/Caruso, there's zero reason to be happy or angry with the trade because right now it's the definition of meh.

If Marcus Smart was part of the deal (who I think was in the rumor?) then he was ultimately traded to the Wizards for a 2025 pick. Was that #18? If so, Walter Clayton was picked at that spot and the Wizards traded him for Will Riley, plus the #43 pick and 2nd round picks in 2031 and 2032.

https://www.nba.com/news/wizards-grizzlies-kings-smart-laravia-len-trade

Yes 18, although I wouldn't have picked Clayton. Also on the board was Kasparas, Asa Newell, Drake Powell, Nique, Jase. Bulls walking away from this draft with Noa + Kasparas and just having given up Lonzo who barely plays would have been some A+ GMing. Alas, we do not have an A+ GM.

But in AK's defense at the time of the trade Memphis was the 4th best team in the league and just behind OKC & Cleveland & Boston. Expectations were that they would finish the season as a #2 seed healthy. So that pick at the time was projected to be more like #26.

[Ctownbulls]

Cheap potential value increasing guy on a tank team... If they actually tank.

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[kodo]

I like the trade and find AKs new approach to be very interesting very curious to see how this all plays out.

Agreed it's at least interesting, most teams are either going for star vets or tanking for draft picks. We're doing something more like Masai in Toronto when instead of trying to tank & draft a star he's just grabbing a bunch of young reclamation projects like Quickley, RJ Barrett, Brandon Ingram.

Of course Masai is now out of a job...

[Sinistar6]

Classy move by the bulls in my opinion. Ruins my dream of the Bulls Ball Bro backcourt however gives Lanzo a chance to move past the playin.

[step]

My first thought... Cleveland looking at the Bulls and hoping Lonzo has the same positive effect as Caruso.

It's also amusing to see so many who lauded his extension quickly flip the script and go, well good riddance, he never plays and at least we got something back.

I somewhat agree with the CHGO (Gotltlieb?) crew, we may not value draft picks per se, but other teams do. why not acquire them and use them in future trades. And I quite like the contradiction in the approach, we don't value them but have just spent time praising Noa, his potential and future team outlook.

[Dan Z]

We don't know the protections on that 1st, it's most lively would've been a fake first like the Blazers pick in which case it's worthless plus adding Smart.

Debatable as to whether this is a worse trade given Okoro hasn't played yet. A lot of people said the same about Giddey/Caruso, there's zero reason to be happy or angry with the trade because right now it's the definition of meh.

If Marcus Smart was part of the deal (who I think was in the rumor?) then he was ultimately traded to the Wizards for a 2025 pick. Was that #18? If so, Walter Clayton was picked at that spot and the Wizards traded him for Will Riley, plus the #43 pick and 2nd round picks in 2031 and 2032.

https://www.nba.com/news/wizards-grizzlies-kings-smart-laravia-len-trade

Yes 18, although I wouldn't have picked Clayton. Also on the board was Kasparas, Asa Newell, Drake Powell, Nique, Jase. Bulls walking away from this draft with Noa + Kasparas and just having given up Lonzo who barely plays would have been some A+ GMing. Alas, we do not have an A+ GM.

But in AK's defense at the time of the trade Memphis was the 4th best team in the league and just behind OKC & Cleveland & Boston. Expectations were that they would finish the season as a #2 seed healthy. So that pick at the time was projected to be more like #26.

Even with Memphis being the 4th best team you sill make that deal. The Bulls are rebuilding and need all the draft capital they can get.

[TheGOATRises007]

I think that's not a single 1st round pick back for DeRozan, LaVine, Caruso or Lonzo.

Disastrous from AKME.

[Dan Z]

Cheap potential value increasing guy on a tank team... If they actually tank.

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I doubt they'll tank. AK did this move because Okoro improves the roster. He'll be a better rotation player than PW.

However, Okoro has been in the league for 5 years. I'd be surprised if his value increases.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

I like the trade and find AKs new approach to be very interesting very curious to see how this all plays out.

Agreed it's at least interesting, most teams are either going for star vets or tanking for draft picks. We're doing something more like Masai in Toronto when instead of trying to tank & draft a star he's just grabbing a bunch of young reclamation projects like Quickley, RJ Barrett, Brandon Ingram.

Of course Masai is now out of a job...

Something to consider you knew that Ingram and Barrett are attached to big money deals so if you’re wrong then your cap looks a lot worse because you got it wrong.

Smaller contracts like Ball and Caruso definitely makes this a safer route I think. Collins and Huerter are like this too, granted both of those guys aren’t huge needle movers but two smaller contracts on reclamation scenarios that positively contribute to winning are a better use of our money.

Now we’re going to see how AK handles the big money scenarios with Coby and Giddey but kudos to him for an innovative approach to building around Giddey. He hit a home run with Giddey but he definitely needs the right kind of guys around him to maximize Giddey. Last year Giddey balled out with a mess of a roster and many ill fitting parts.

Masai was at war with the new owner I’m happy for him. That same owner tried to fire him right after they won that championship

[Dan Z]

I think that's not a single 1st round pick back for DeRozan, LaVine, Caruso or Lonzo.

Disastrous from AKME.

They got their pick back for LaVine, but you could argue that they never should've given up that pick in the first place.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

People up in arms about this shouldn’t forget that you’re getting a completely different Okoro. Something we’ve never seen. Playing downhill and fast is 180 degree opposite of what they do in CLE.

[MGB8]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but if we traded Pat that is exactly what the fans of his new team would be saying to convince themselves it was a good trade.

Okoro spent the last two years being a steady, effective NBA 3-D wing. Pat did not. Okoro has a nice floor. Pat’s floor is last year, which is of no benefit to anyone.

That two fanbases might ignorantly react in a similar way does not make them in fact similar.

Look at their per 36 numbers over their career. They're the same player. Obviously, I don't mean that entirely literally, but they produce more or less the same. The big difference is Okoro is a worse shooter than Pat on even lower volume.

Pat 13/5/2/1 on 45/39/77 on 4.2 3PA

Okoro 11/4/2/1 on 47/35/73 on 3.7 3PA

I think Okoro is better at this point though, because after that disastrous season Pat might be done. They're both ass and they both fill similar roles and they both produce similar numbers.

We're talking 10th men at best.

Okoro does have some stretches where he looks like he has become a legit starter. So maybe those expand. Of course, you could say the same for Pat…. and we know what happens after those stretches…

[NecessaryEvil]

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[Dez]

The pick the Wizards got from Memphis was lottery protected. Memphis dropped 9 spots in the standings after the trade, so the best possible outcome happened for the Wizards.

There's nothing to suggest that was the pick they offered though.

Lonzo missed 2 years and played 35 games on limited minutes with meh results.

[Dan Z]

The pick the Wizards got from Memphis was lottery protected. Memphis dropped 9 spots in the standings after the trade, so the best possible outcome happened for the Wizards.

There's nothing to suggest that was the pick they offered though.

Lonzo missed 2 years and played 35 games on limited minutes with meh results.

Memphis traded Marcus Smart to Washington so they could get out of his contract. They got Bagley and Davis (both expiring) and two 2nd round picks.

At that time Lonzo's contract was 21 million and he hadn't signed his extension. Smart made 20 million this past season and will make 21 next year.

It's possible that Memphis asked for Lonzo to simply shed salary. Lonzo plus two 2nd would basically be the same deal they got from Washington, except Lonzo could potentially give them some level of production if he's ever healthy again (Davis is probably out of the league soon and Bagley...who knows...he hasn't been good).

[boozapalooza]

Cheap potential value increasing guy on a tank team... If they actually tank.

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I doubt they'll tank. AK did this move because Okoro improves the roster. He'll be a better rotation player than PW.

However, Okoro has been in the league for 5 years. I'd be surprised if his value increases.

Sort of wonder if they made the deal for Okoro knowing they’ll be able to move PWill. PW talks have definitely been ongoing. They should have a good sense by now if theres enough interest to find a deal or not.

Cowley has been reporting that trying to trade PWill has been a big priority for AKME so far.

It would surprise me if we actually trade him, but maybe theres a team out there that thinks he can be fixed with a change of scenery. I doubt Cavs fans thought they’d be able to get a useful piece for Okoro (better contract, I know)

[meekrab]

Bulls continue to trade their assets at the worst possible times.

...should we have traded lonzo ball in his first two months of playing with us, or do you think it would have been better to trade him at some point during his two-year injury odyssey when it was unclear if he would ever play basketball again?

Apparently we could've gotten Smart and a FRP for Lonzo at the deadline, when Lonzo was magically playing somewhat well because he hadn't been injured in a month or so. Obviously that was going to be his peak of value because he immediately got hurt two weeks later.

The idea of re-signing Lonzo was to make him more valuable, not to dump him for a Patrick Williams clone who can't shoot as well.

[Chi town]

So who think Okoro is our defensive ace that starts with Giddey and Coby defending the best guard?