Shams: Lonzo for Okoro

[keloms]

Read on Twitter

Except they have no core.

[meekrab]

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Except they have no core.

The core is Giddey and Matas, obviously they have a 'core'.

[Indomitable]

I think that's not a single 1st round pick back for DeRozan, LaVine, Caruso or Lonzo.

Disastrous from AKME.

Incompetence

[MrFortune3]

Here's what I take from this and many other threads. People hate the draft picks that AKME make and they loathe the job they have done in developing them. Then in the same breath they get pissed that they aren't gathering more draft picks instead of players...

Lonzo is a injury prone expiring contract, there is nothing wrong with nabbing Okoro for him.

[sco]

Here's what I take from this and many other threads. People hate the draft picks that AKME make and they loathe the job they have done in developing them. Then in the same breath they get pissed that they aren't gathering more draft picks instead of players...

Lonzo is a injury prone expiring contract, there is nothing wrong with nabbing Okoro for him.

Yeah, it's hard to value injury prone guys. They're great and you love them, and then they're out for 30 games. I love Ball, but there's just no way that he can be counted on.

[sco]

So who think Okoro is our defensive ace that starts with Giddey and Coby defending the best guard?

I was rooting hard for us to draft Coward to be that guy, and Okoro is a similar type player. Before his trade, I was rooting for Ball to play that role, but I found it hard to expect him to be there at the end of the season. I think that stating gig will be somewhat up for grabs between Okoro, Ayo (if still here), Huerter, and Jones (if we bring him back). I don't expect Okoro to get the job, only because I think it should be him, but that f*cker Billy never agrees with my POV on who to play. But if there was a position description it would be to be the POA defender, guarding the opponent's best scorer 1-3, and a guy who can hit wide open 3's...don't need a guy taking even 10 shots a game, but needs to be able to do things without the ball in hands on both ends and score in transition.

[dice]

I think that's not a single 1st round pick back for DeRozan, LaVine, Caruso or Lonzo.

Disastrous from AKME.

Incompetence

derozan was a free agent sign and trade for a guy about to be 35. lavine's contract was awful. artie was lucky to get what he got with both those deals. the incompetence was what he had to GIVE UP to get/retain those two

i would have taken a pick over giddey, but i doubt that's the consensus here. and obviously nobody was offering a 1st for lonzo. nothing artie can do there unless he forgot to say "going once...going twice..."

[MrFortune3]

Here's what I take from this and many other threads. People hate the draft picks that AKME make and they loathe the job they have done in developing them. Then in the same breath they get pissed that they aren't gathering more draft picks instead of players...

Lonzo is a injury prone expiring contract, there is nothing wrong with nabbing Okoro for him.

Yeah, it's hard to value injury prone guys. They're great and you love them, and then they're out for 30 games. I love Ball, but there's just no way that he can be counted on.

Seeing Ball be able to come back from his injury was cool. He had no future with the team. We swapped him out for a defensive wing that is signed for 2 more years and around the same AAV.

To retool the roster the Bulls are going to have to decide on the players they want to build around and take chances on youngish types that can help fill other holes in the roster.

[Red8911]

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We had so many here bching and moaning that the Bulls will keep the same exact team as last year because Eversley mentioned it in the presser.

Never believe what they say in those pressers, most of it is BS. They can’t say they want to trade their players for obvious reasons and instead lie.

[Indomitable]

I think that's not a single 1st round pick back for DeRozan, LaVine, Caruso or Lonzo.

Disastrous from AKME.

Incompetence

derozan was a free agent sign and trade for a guy about to be 35. lavine's contract was awful. artie was lucky to get what he got with both those deals. the incompetence was what he had to GIVE UP to get/retain those two

i would have taken a pick over giddey, but i doubt that's the consensus here. and obviously nobody was offering a 1st for lonzo. nothing artie can do there unless he forgot to say "going once...going twice..."

All of those were examples of overplaying their hand.

Knicks offered a similar package to Bridges
Derozan could have been moved two years in a row before he was a free agent.

Caruso would have got you more if you move him earlier.

Timing in life matters.

[Dominator83]

I think that's not a single 1st round pick back for DeRozan, LaVine, Caruso or Lonzo.

Disastrous from AKME.

Incompetence

derozan was a free agent sign and trade for a guy about to be 35. lavine's contract was awful. artie was lucky to get what he got with both those deals. the incompetence was what he had to GIVE UP to get/retain those two

i would have taken a pick over giddey, but i doubt that's the consensus here. and obviously nobody was offering a 1st for lonzo. nothing artie can do there unless he forgot to say "going once...going twice..."

Yea to steal from another poster, if they had inherited this roster and starting trading away all these guys, people here would be appluading these moves. But it was theirs and they waited too long to pivot. But the trades themselves have been fine....

DDR: They decided (rightfully) that they weren't going to re-sign him. And would do him a solid to help him get more than MLE only if there was an interested team that can get creative enough to where the Bulls don't take anybody back in the trade. They somehow managed to find a team and made it work

Caruso: Previous deadline could have gotten a crappy 1st from Golden state in a brutal draft. AKME wanted Kuminga and GS balked. Giddey is a WAY better return and don't know why people here like to pretend otherwise. Put it this way.... Last years draft featured players even older than Giddey. Giddey was 21 years old and had a dozen career triple doubles. If Adam Silver stripped OKC of Giddey and inserted him into last years draft, where does he get picked?! Im guessing at or near the top! Instead we're b*tching, complaining, and crying that we didn't instead take a late pick from GS in that same brutal draft.

Lavine: getting ANY positive value was a miracle, considering that just a few months earlier the only way to move him was to pay someone an asset, be it a future 1st or Caruso (philly reportedly made that pitch). In the end they got their 1st back (Noa) and a couple useful players in Collins and tre

Lonzo: Tougher pill to swallow, i defintely would rather have taken the pick from Memphis. But, this is still a good roll of the dice thats a low-risk move if Okoro doesn't pan out here. I have no problem though with AKME looking for other teams potential Lauris, guys that got some untapped potential and can perhaps use a change of scenery and coaching style. Its a two year deal with a small cap hit, not a big deal if he sucks.

[Indomitable]

Incompetence

derozan was a free agent sign and trade for a guy about to be 35. lavine's contract was awful. artie was lucky to get what he got with both those deals. the incompetence was what he had to GIVE UP to get/retain those two

i would have taken a pick over giddey, but i doubt that's the consensus here. and obviously nobody was offering a 1st for lonzo. nothing artie can do there unless he forgot to say "going once...going twice..."

Yea to steal from another poster, if they had inherited this roster and starting trading away all these guys, people here would be appluading these moves. But it was theirs and they waited too long to pivot. But the trades themselves have been fine....

DDR: They decided (rightfully) that they weren't going to re-sign him. And would do him a solid to help him get more than MLE only if there was an interested team that can get creative enough to where the Bulls don't take anybody back in the trade. They somehow managed to find a team and made it work

Caruso: Previous deadline could have gotten a crappy 1st from Golden state in a brutal draft. AKME wanted Kuminga and GS balked. Giddey is a WAY better return and don't know why people here like to pretend otherwise. Put it this way.... Last years draft featured players even older than Giddey. Giddey was 21 years old and had a dozen career triple doubles. If Adam Silver stripped OKC of Giddey and inserted him into last years draft, where does he get picked?! Im guessing at or near the top! Instead we're b*tching, complaining, and crying that we didn't instead take a late pick from GS in that same brutal draft.

Lavine: getting ANY positive value was a miracle, considering that just a few months earlier the only way to move him was to pay someone an asset, be it a future 1st or Caruso (philly reportedly made that pitch). In the end they got their 1st back (Noa) and a couple useful players in Collins and tre

Lonzo: Tougher pill to swallow, i defintely would rather have taken the pick from Memphis. But, this is still a good roll of the dice thats a low-risk move if Okoro doesn't pan out here. I have no problem though with AKME looking for other teams potential Lauris, guys that got some untapped potential and can perhaps use a change of scenery and coaching style. Its a two year deal with a small cap hit, not a big deal if he sucks.

Or trade Lavine when the Knicks came knocking.
Trade Demarr instead of pushing for the play in.
Move Caruso at the deadline the previous season instead of trying for pointless wins.

If you sit on most things to long. It normally gets to be to late.

Has Akme once done something that makes you believe he has what it takes. All his moves are reactionary.

He devalues or lets them degrade. Then tries to move them. Timing in life matters.

[kodo]

Saw on reddit that Okoro rates extremely high on RAPM impact metrics, not just for CLE but the entire NBA.
Mix of stars & roleplayers at the top. He's a 96th percentile RAPM player.

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander OKC 5.2 (99) -3.1 (99) 8.3 (99)
Nikola Jokić DEN 6.6 (99) -0.3 (64) 6.9 (99)
Giannis Antetokounmpo MIL 5.2 (99) -1.5 (94) 6.7 (99)
Dorian Finney-Smith LAL 4.3 (99) -1.8 (96) 6.1 (99)
Ivica Zubac LAC 2.4 (94) -2.7 (99) 5.0 (99)
Luka Dončić LAL 3.3 (98) -1.5 (93) 4.8 (98)
Franz Wagner ORL 2.5 (95) -1.9 (97) 4.4 (98)
Aaron Wiggins OKC 4.1 (98) -0.1 (54) 4.2 (98)
Al Horford BOS 2.6 (95) -1.6 (95) 4.2 (98)
Isaiah Joe OKC 2.3 (93) -1.9 (97) 4.2 (98)
Luke Kornet BOS 2.8 (96) -1.3 (91) 4.1 (98)
Christian Braun DEN 3.4 (98) -0.6 (75) 4.0 (97)
Evan Mobley CLE 2.2 (93) -1.7 (96) 4.0 (97)
Stephen Curry GSW 5.2 (99) 1.2 (9) 4.0 (97)
John Collins UTA 2.4 (94) -1.5 (93) 3.9 (97)
Kyrie Irving DAL 3.0 (96) -0.9 (83) 3.9 (97)
Kawhi Leonard LAC 3.4 (98) -0.5 (70) 3.9 (96)
Isaac Okoro CLE 2.5 (95) -1.0 (84) 3.5 (96)
Dereck Lively II DAL 1.0 (82) -2.3 (98) 3.3 (96)
Jarrett Allen CLE 2.3 (93) -1.0 (85) 3.3 (96)
Karl-Anthony Towns NYK 3.7 (98) 0.4 (30) 3.2 (96)

https://xrapm.com/table_pages/RAPM_1y.html

I think the real tragedy is obviously losing Luke Kornet!

[Dominator83]

derozan was a free agent sign and trade for a guy about to be 35. lavine's contract was awful. artie was lucky to get what he got with both those deals. the incompetence was what he had to GIVE UP to get/retain those two

i would have taken a pick over giddey, but i doubt that's the consensus here. and obviously nobody was offering a 1st for lonzo. nothing artie can do there unless he forgot to say "going once...going twice..."

Yea to steal from another poster, if they had inherited this roster and starting trading away all these guys, people here would be appluading these moves. But it was theirs and they waited too long to pivot. But the trades themselves have been fine....

DDR: They decided (rightfully) that they weren't going to re-sign him. And would do him a solid to help him get more than MLE only if there was an interested team that can get creative enough to where the Bulls don't take anybody back in the trade. They somehow managed to find a team and made it work

Caruso: Previous deadline could have gotten a crappy 1st from Golden state in a brutal draft. AKME wanted Kuminga and GS balked. Giddey is a WAY better return and don't know why people here like to pretend otherwise. Put it this way.... Last years draft featured players even older than Giddey. Giddey was 21 years old and had a dozen career triple doubles. If Adam Silver stripped OKC of Giddey and inserted him into last years draft, where does he get picked?! Im guessing at or near the top! Instead we're b*tching, complaining, and crying that we didn't instead take a late pick from GS in that same brutal draft.

Lavine: getting ANY positive value was a miracle, considering that just a few months earlier the only way to move him was to pay someone an asset, be it a future 1st or Caruso (philly reportedly made that pitch). In the end they got their 1st back (Noa) and a couple useful players in Collins and tre

Lonzo: Tougher pill to swallow, i defintely would rather have taken the pick from Memphis. But, this is still a good roll of the dice thats a low-risk move if Okoro doesn't pan out here. I have no problem though with AKME looking for other teams potential Lauris, guys that got some untapped potential and can perhaps use a change of scenery and coaching style. Its a two year deal with a small cap hit, not a big deal if he sucks.

Or trade Lavine when the Knicks came knocking.
Trade Demarr instead of pushing for the play in.
Move Caruso at the deadline the previous season instead of trying for pointless wins.

If you sit on most things to long. It normally gets to be to late.

Has Akme once done something that makes you believe he has what it takes. All his moves are reactionary.

He devalues or lets them degrade. Then tries to move them. Timing in life matters.

Lavine i definitely agree there. Should have dealt him to Thibs when they had the chance

DDR, not sure there was ever a big appetite around the league for him and his antiquated game. Don't recall anyone calling and asking for him

Caruso, was never gonna get a better return than a 21 year old Josh Giddey. Teams generally don't trade good young prospects for defensive specialist journeymen. Again, late picks aren't better assets than Gosh Giddey

[DuckIII]

I’ve decided I like this trade based on a real time analysis. There are scenarios where it looks badly later, but I don’t evaluate trades that way.

It’s not exactly what I would have done, but it’s perfectly logical and justifiable. I’m in.

Why would it look bad later?

Lonzo plays like old Lonzo, is perfectly healthy, and could then reasonably be assumed to have greater trade value by the deadline. That’s a game of chance, which is part of why I have come down on supporting the trade, but it’s a very plausible outcome. It’s in fact what I would have done instead of trading him now, but I can absolutely see the sense in what AK chose to do instead. It checks a lot of boxes. It’s a different kind of smart move, and that’s okay.

[DuckIII]

Read on Twitter

Jake Weinbach clearly is not familiar with our game. That’s not in the playbook.

[DuckIII]

So who think Okoro is our defensive ace that starts with Giddey and Coby defending the best guard?

Based on today’s roster it’s either gonna be him or Pat. Noa is extremely unlikely to be ready in November. Unless we really are going to try to tank the season a bit.

[DropStep]

We got our own pick back in the Lavine/Fox trade. Lonzo was a 1 for 1 player trade. So was Caruso. 1 for 1 player trades seem pretty rare, no? It's almost like AKME would just rather not deal with picks, especially other people's picks, whose value you have no control over. Just keep them, we're good? lol. I think and hope that it's kind of a joke when people say AK hates draft picks, but it's starting to feel kind of weird. Both of these trades are perfectly even? Not even a second going either direction, or a swap of seconds? He doesn't seem to be looking for lottery tickets or to swindle anyone for value, it feels like he's just looking for fit, to the scheme and to the timeline. But one of his prime duties is negotiating for value, both with players and other teams. This is a cheap shot... but is he doing it?

[Red8911]

I’ve decided I like this trade based on a real time analysis. There are scenarios where it looks badly later, but I don’t evaluate trades that way.

It’s not exactly what I would have done, but it’s perfectly logical and justifiable. I’m in.

Why would it look bad later?

Lonzo plays like old Lonzo, is perfectly healthy, and could then reasonably be assumed to have greater trade value by the deadline. That’s a game of chance, which is part of why I have come down on supporting the trade, but it’s a very plausible outcome. It’s in fact what I would have done instead of trading him now, but I can absolutely see the sense in what AK chose to do instead. It checks a lot of boxes. It’s a different kind of smart move, and that’s okay.

Old Lonzo isn’t coming back unfortunately. I wouldn’t bet on that. It’s surprising enough that he can still contribute after missing so much time.

I can see him being a journeymen the rest of his career, wouldn’t be surprised if Cleveland ends up trading him as well by the end of the season.

[SfBull]

Trash. I would've rather seen Lonzo Ball waived.

I'd rather have Ball playingfor our fast pace offense,no need for trading him.