Shams: Lonzo for Okoro

[SfBull]

On the other side I was Okoro's fan since his draft.

[Dan Z]

I’ve decided I like this trade based on a real time analysis. There are scenarios where it looks badly later, but I don’t evaluate trades that way.

It’s not exactly what I would have done, but it’s perfectly logical and justifiable. I’m in.

Why would it look bad later?

Lonzo plays like old Lonzo, is perfectly healthy, and could then reasonably be assumed to have greater trade value by the deadline. That’s a game of chance, which is part of why I have come down on supporting the trade, but it’s a very plausible outcome. It’s in fact what I would have done instead of trading him now, but I can absolutely see the sense in what AK chose to do instead. It checks a lot of boxes. It’s a different kind of smart move, and that’s okay.

If that happens I think you just shrug and except it for what it is.

Overall the trade is minor so it's not a big deal, but to me it say mediocrity. It's upgrading a role player position and that's about it. Okoro has been in the league 5 years, so I bet he is who is at this point.

If the Memphis deal was really offered then AK should've taken that (but I have no idea if it was really true).

[ThisGuyFawkes]

Read on Twitter

Jake Weinbach clearly is not familiar with our game. That’s not in the playbook.

I don't think Jake realizes how unimportant draft picks are, and how important financial flexibility is.

[dice]

Incompetence

derozan was a free agent sign and trade for a guy about to be 35. lavine's contract was awful. artie was lucky to get what he got with both those deals. the incompetence was what he had to GIVE UP to get/retain those two

i would have taken a pick over giddey, but i doubt that's the consensus here. and obviously nobody was offering a 1st for lonzo. nothing artie can do there unless he forgot to say "going once...going twice..."

All of those were examples of overplaying their hand.

Knicks offered a similar package to Bridges
Derozan could have been moved two years in a row before he was a free agent.

Caruso would have got you more if you move him earlier.

Timing in life matters.

the very strong majority of bulls fans were thrilled when artie mortgaged the future to trade for vuc/derozan and fight for a playoff spot. because neither fans nor management had much appetite for tanking. why, then, would it surprise anybody that management was not willing to completely reverse course and trade good players for picks and go back in the tank? did we really expect admission of failure combined with a change of mindset?

[Dan Z]

derozan was a free agent sign and trade for a guy about to be 35. lavine's contract was awful. artie was lucky to get what he got with both those deals. the incompetence was what he had to GIVE UP to get/retain those two

i would have taken a pick over giddey, but i doubt that's the consensus here. and obviously nobody was offering a 1st for lonzo. nothing artie can do there unless he forgot to say "going once...going twice..."

All of those were examples of overplaying their hand.

Knicks offered a similar package to Bridges
Derozan could have been moved two years in a row before he was a free agent.

Caruso would have got you more if you move him earlier.

Timing in life matters.

the very strong majority of bulls fans were thrilled when artie mortgaged the future to trade for vuc/derozan and fight for a playoff spot. because neither fans nor management had much appetite for tanking. why, then, would it surprise anybody that he and the org were not willing to completely reverse course and trade good players for picks and go back in the tank? did we really expect admission of failure combined with a change of mindset?

I don't think anyone really expected it, but were hoping that AK could see that the team was headed nowhere and that it was time to pivot to the next iteration of the team.

EDIT: I should add that by not making moves he was delaying the inevitable.

[Chi town]

So who think Okoro is our defensive ace that starts with Giddey and Coby defending the best guard?

Based on today’s roster it’s either gonna be him or Pat. Noa is extremely unlikely to be ready in November. Unless we really are going to try to tank the season a bit.

Not Huerter or Tre? Or Ayo?

[DuckIII]

Why would it look bad later?

Lonzo plays like old Lonzo, is perfectly healthy, and could then reasonably be assumed to have greater trade value by the deadline. That’s a game of chance, which is part of why I have come down on supporting the trade, but it’s a very plausible outcome. It’s in fact what I would have done instead of trading him now, but I can absolutely see the sense in what AK chose to do instead. It checks a lot of boxes. It’s a different kind of smart move, and that’s okay.

If that happens I think you just shrug and except it for what it is.

That is what I’ll do. I’m fine with the trade. I give zero weight to hindsight analysis.

[Jcool0]

Read on Twitter

[Peelboy]

Here's what I take from this and many other threads. People hate the draft picks that AKME make and they loathe the job they have done in developing them. Then in the same breath they get pissed that they aren't gathering more draft picks instead of players...

Lonzo is an injury prone expiring contract, there is nothing wrong with nabbing Okoro for him.

Analogy: I think you’re a terrible chef whose food is near inedible. I can also be upset that you buy spoiled produce at excessive prices.

Some is generally poor at drafting. They also generally misvalue their assets in trade, and lack strategy of the kind of assets to trade for given their position.

This trade is just another example of that, IMO. By no means the most egregious one though. Just a small brick in that wall.

[Dan Z]

Here's what I take from this and many other threads. People hate the draft picks that AKME make and they loathe the job they have done in developing them. Then in the same breath they get pissed that they aren't gathering more draft picks instead of players...

Lonzo is an injury prone expiring contract, there is nothing wrong with nabbing Okoro for him.

Analogy: I think you’re a terrible chef whose food is near inedible. I can also be upset that you buy spoiled produce at excessive prices.

Some is generally poor at drafting. They also generally misvalue their assets in trade, and lack strategy of the kind of assets to trade for given their position.

This trade is just another example of that, IMO. By no means the most egregious one though. Just a small brick in that wall.

My issue with AKME is that they don't try to acquire additional draft picks. it's NBA currency and the team needs to find it's franchise player to build around.

[Dan Z]

We got our own pick back in the Lavine/Fox trade. Lonzo was a 1 for 1 player trade. So was Caruso. 1 for 1 player trades seem pretty rare, no? It's almost like AKME would just rather not deal with picks, especially other people's picks, whose value you have no control over. Just keep them, we're good? lol. I think and hope that it's kind of a joke when people say AK hates draft picks, but it's starting to feel kind of weird. Both of these trades are perfectly even? Not even a second going either direction, or a swap of seconds? He doesn't seem to be looking for lottery tickets or to swindle anyone for value, it feels like he's just looking for fit, to the scheme and to the timeline. But one of his prime duties is negotiating for value, both with players and other teams. This is a cheap shot... but is he doing it?

I think you're right that he doesn't try to get draft picks. This is a guy who turned down taking on Harrison Barnes to get the Kings swap rights.

[jbk1234]

Cavs fan here. I come in peace. If you're looking for a reason to be bullish on Okoro, he had some of the best impact stats (on/off, +/-) on the Cavs every year since his rookie year.

[samwana]

Cavs fan here. I come in peace. If you're looking for a reason to be bullish on Okoro, he had some of the best impact stats (on/off, +/-) on the Cavs every year since his rookie year.

Thanks for bringing some perspective here!

[pipfan]

Cavs fan here. I come in peace. If you're looking for a reason to be bullish on Okoro, he had some of the best impact stats (on/off, +/-) on the Cavs every year since his rookie year.

Thanks-I am more optimistic than most here on this deal, and I loved Ball (too bad that player is probably done)

White/Jones/Carter
Okoro/Ayo/Terry
Giddey/Huerter/Phillips
Matas/Pwill/JSmith
Vuc (let's deal him too)/Collins/JSmith

Play fast

[WesPeace]

Cavs fan here. I come in peace. If you're looking for a reason to be bullish on Okoro, he had some of the best impact stats (on/off, +/-) on the Cavs every year since his rookie year.

Thanks-I am more optimistic than most here on this deal, and I loved Ball (too bad that player is probably done)

White/Jones/Carter
Okoro/Ayo/Terry
Giddey/Huerter/Phillips
Matas/Pwill/JSmith
Vuc (let's deal him too)/Collins/JSmith

Play fast

Same here.. Okoro at least plays with high energy, hustles and goes for rebounds compared to PWill..

Lets hope this lights then fire under Pat's ass a bit and he comes back leaner, faster and ready to fight for SF starting role.

[Rose2Boozer]

Cavs fan here. I come in peace. If you're looking for a reason to be bullish on Okoro, he had some of the best impact stats (on/off, +/-) on the Cavs every year since his rookie year.

Do you think trading for Lonzo Ball means you're more than likely will lose Ty Jerome?

[Andi Obst]

I hated the deal initially and still don't love it, but it's okay I guess. Pretty likely that Okoro helps you more than Lonzo next year due to injuries. Cavs save some money but don't save enough money to attach assets. I get it.

Would love to see the exact deadline offers the Bulls got for Lonzo.

[Muzbar]

Read on Twitter

We had so many here bching and moaning that the Bulls will keep the same exact team as last year because Eversley mentioned it in the presser.

Never believe what they say in those pressers, most of it is BS. They can’t say they want to trade their players for obvious reasons and instead lie.

Wait. So don't believe what the teams General Manager says, despite it being what they've done for most of their tenure. But do believe a journalist on twitter that reports the complete opposite of what the team has done for several years now.

[BullChit]

Read on Twitter

We had so many here bching and moaning that the Bulls will keep the same exact team as last year because Eversley mentioned it in the presser.

Never believe what they say in those pressers, most of it is BS. They can’t say they want to trade their players for obvious reasons and instead lie.

Wait. So don't believe what the teams General Manager says, despite it being what they've done for most of their tenure. But do believe a journalist on twitter that reports the complete opposite of what the team has done for several years now.

Fake front office news.

[jbk1234]

Cavs fan here. I come in peace. If you're looking for a reason to be bullish on Okoro, he had some of the best impact stats (on/off, +/-) on the Cavs every year since his rookie year.

Do you think trading for Lonzo Ball means you're more than likely will lose Ty Jerome?

Almost certainly. We only had early bird rights.