[Shams] Masai Ujiri is out as Vice Chairman and President of the Toronto Raptors - Part 2

[Scase]

According to this, Raptors grew their valuation at a ~24% CAGR from 2013 while the league average valuation grew at ~21.5% CAGR. If the Raptors had grown at league average, they would be valued at $3.5b. That's ~$900m of value created above league average.

Like I have said previously, I am not discounting that Masai had an impact. I am strongly disagreeing that the increase to the value of the team was largely due to Masai's tenure.

I'm pretty sure Yeezus was thinking about it in a comparative sense and attributing the differential. The premise of his post still holds taken this way. BTW, that differential is not "small" - it accounts for >20% of the appreciation.

f a player goes from 20ppg to 21ppg and I say that's a massive jump, that's objectively wrong. If I say they had a small jump, that's factually accurate. Words mean things for a reason.

More like 20ppg to 24.5ppg. That's a pretty meaningful jump.

That would also presume that Masai was the sole person responsible for said increase, which I find hard to believe.

My comment about the ppg wasn't for specific numbers, but rather the use of the words largely and incrementally being used together when they are contradictory. Probably a bad analogy to use on my part.

All in all, do I think Masai had a positive impact on the growth of the valuation of the franchise? Yes. Do I think the growth was largely in part due to him? No, otherwise we'd be seeing a massive amount of growth above the average, not ~2.5%.

[Randle McMurphy]

I completely disagree with you but this is all subjective so if you really believe this then sure.

Just know that Ed Rogers’ track record doesn’t really instil confidence that the right guy will be hired for the job. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side.

The only track record we have on Ed Rogers' sports teams is his hiring of Shapiro with the Blue Jays (who was both highly sought after and well respected leaguewide at the time they got him). That's very little to go on.

What is it now - 9 years? Nothing to go on?

Somehow Masai is gone before this guy.

It’s pretty obvious that post was a reference to Ed’s hirings, for which he’s only directed one (Shapiro).

And the Jays have been far better than the Raptors over the past five years (in addition to the salary difference between the two), but that was already gone over in the previous thread. In any case, Shapiro will be out in a few short months too.

[ForeverTFC]

Like I have said previously, I am not discounting that Masai had an impact. I am strongly disagreeing that the increase to the value of the team was largely due to Masai's tenure.

I'm pretty sure Yeezus was thinking about it in a comparative sense and attributing the differential. The premise of his post still holds taken this way. BTW, that differential is not "small" - it accounts for >20% of the appreciation.

f a player goes from 20ppg to 21ppg and I say that's a massive jump, that's objectively wrong. If I say they had a small jump, that's factually accurate. Words mean things for a reason.

More like 20ppg to 24.5ppg. That's a pretty meaningful jump.

That would also presume that Masai was the sole person responsible for said increase, which I find hard to believe.

My comment about the ppg wasn't for specific numbers, but rather the use of the words largely and incrementally being used together when they are contradictory. Probably a bad analogy to use on my part.

All in all, do I think Masai had a positive impact on the growth of the valuation of the franchise? Yes. Do I think the growth was largely in part due to him? No, otherwise we'd be seeing a massive amount of growth above the average, not ~2.5%.

You'd be surprised what 2.5% can do when it compounds. The S&P compounds at 10%. $100k compounding at 10% for 20 years is $672k. If you compound at 11.2% (differential between Raps and league average), that same $100k compounds to $830k. And at 12.5%, it's >$1m.

We're talking asset valuation here. 2.5% alpha is a big deal over a decade+. Masai was the man in charge of the franchise; he and his team drove that alpha.

[anotherhomer]

i think we just need to accept dark days are coming......we knew that, and that day has come

[JB7]

It was already difficult getting players to come here. Now they will have no interest what so ever in coming here.

I must be missing all of the premier free agents this team acquired over Masai's entire tenure.

I would not be shocked at all that CMB’s reaction to being drafted by the team was because he already had heard about the situation with Masai.

Or maybe he didn't want to move to Canada like most kids his age living in the US wouldn't (or you know, literally a half dozen other reasons that are far more likely than that).

This is no longer the pre-Masai Raps that were just considered a joke (purple dinosaur team), and who fumbled around trying to look like a legit run organization. This is now a team that was legit, because they had one of the best executives in the league, and they threw it away. They would have been much better off if he had just left. What makes it so much worse is they fired him.

You appear to be living in 2019 and have just ignored everything (the bad seasons, the mismanagement, the lack of direction) that came after that. We are far more reminiscent to the late stage era BC Raptors now than the 2013-2019 Ujiri Raptors. A ton of mistakes have been made here since 2020 and mistakes eventually have consequences.

When Kawhi was traded here, he could have refused to play. He didn’t, and in fact put in his best effort while here.

Ingram could have gone anywhere else, at the price the Pelicans were selling him at, and he chose here.

I know you like to focus on this idea that since the championship, everything has been a mess under Masai’s leadership, while being contradicted by most reasonable posters on this board.

Don’t worry, you’ll get your way and see true incompetence with this organization for the foreseeable future, as long as Ed owns the team.

[ill-Will03]

Ya I can’t even continue to argue with you guys anymore let’s just wait n see how this plays out and see if you guys can admit you were wrong when this Franchise is far worse than it was with Masai at the helm

[Scase]

I'm pretty sure Yeezus was thinking about it in a comparative sense and attributing the differential. The premise of his post still holds taken this way. BTW, that differential is not "small" - it accounts for >20% of the appreciation.



More like 20ppg to 24.5ppg. That's a pretty meaningful jump.

That would also presume that Masai was the sole person responsible for said increase, which I find hard to believe.

My comment about the ppg wasn't for specific numbers, but rather the use of the words largely and incrementally being used together when they are contradictory. Probably a bad analogy to use on my part.

All in all, do I think Masai had a positive impact on the growth of the valuation of the franchise? Yes. Do I think the growth was largely in part due to him? No, otherwise we'd be seeing a massive amount of growth above the average, not ~2.5%.

You'd be surprised what 2.5% can do when it compounds. The S&P compounds at 10%. $100k compounding at 10% for 20 years is $672k. If you compound at 11.2% (differential between Raps and league average), that same $100k compounds to $830k. And at 12.5%, it's >$1m.

We're talking asset valuation here. 2.5% alpha is a big deal over a decade+. Masai was the man in charge of the franchise; he and his team drove that alpha.

Which makes sense if it's steady, but it's not compounding the same amount year by year. The valuation of the team spiked from 3.1b to 4.1b in 2022-2023, that isn't steady growth. And it DEFINITELY had nothing to do with Masai, that's why I am saying it is absurd to suggest Masais tenure was the driving factor to the explosion in value. Measuring 2022-present day, the CAGR for the raps was 19.1% and 24.2% for the league on average, Masai was still the captain of the ship, and yet the team grossly underperformed relative to the league average.

I don't suspect that was his fault, any more than the gains were largely due to him, that's all I'm saying.

[djsunyc]

the shield that protected us from bad ownership is gone. just gotta hope the next guy is also a shield and not a gun.

[CazOnReal]

Probably because he's never had to rebuild in his executive career.

Did we just...forget he had to do just that with Denver? He had to trade Melo, move on from that era and all. It didn't happen in the traditional teardown but he won Executive of the Year for a reason: The team he rebuilt post-Melo Nuggets won 57 games that same year.

Hell, he kind of did the same thing with Melo as he did with Siakam in trading him away during the last year of his contract. Obviously the big difference is who was at fault for letting Melo become an expiring vs. Siakam i.e. it wasn't his fault for Melo.

[Raps in 4]

the shield that protected us from bad ownership is gone. just gotta hope the next guy is also a shield and not a gun.

No chance Ed hires a shield. He only surrounds himself with sycophants.

[Scott Hall]

Great Tweet I saw said "Most Raptors thing ever is expecting a superstar like Giannis or KD
and instead we lose Masai"

[Raps in 4]

Where did I agree that Masai would have been able to navigate through this? There's a reason I've wanted him gone for almost two years now. He's made a ton of mistakes and it's been clear that a new vision is needed.


And he should be acknowledged for that. But that doesn't mean you get a free pass until the end of time to mismanage a team this badly.


Pelley is a glorified errand boy for the board and has major experience as a sports/media executive. If it wasn't him, it would be somebody else like him giving pressers like that yesterday. Can't say I'm gonna get too up in arms about him.

I completely disagree with you but this is all subjective so if you really believe this then sure.

Just know that Ed Rogers’ track record doesn’t really instil confidence that the right guy will be hired for the job. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side.

The only track record we have on Ed Rogers' sports teams is his hiring of Shapiro with the Blue Jays (who was both highly sought after and well respected leaguewide at the time they got him). That's very little to go on.

He was neither sought after nor respected. He was known as a penny-pinching executive with experience renovating a stadium. Cleveland was one of the most mediocre franchises in baseball under his leadership. Cleveland fans were celebrating his departure.

The way Masai has run the Raptors the last five years is how Shapiro has run baseball teams for a quarter of a century.

[Tha Cynic]

Like I have said previously, I am not discounting that Masai had an impact. I am strongly disagreeing that the increase to the value of the team was largely due to Masai's tenure.

I'm pretty sure Yeezus was thinking about it in a comparative sense and attributing the differential. The premise of his post still holds taken this way. BTW, that differential is not "small" - it accounts for >20% of the appreciation.

f a player goes from 20ppg to 21ppg and I say that's a massive jump, that's objectively wrong. If I say they had a small jump, that's factually accurate. Words mean things for a reason.

More like 20ppg to 24.5ppg. That's a pretty meaningful jump.

That would also presume that Masai was the sole person responsible for said increase, which I find hard to believe.

My comment about the ppg wasn't for specific numbers, but rather the use of the words largely and incrementally being used together when they are contradictory. Probably a bad analogy to use on my part.

All in all, do I think Masai had a positive impact on the growth of the valuation of the franchise? Yes. Do I think the growth was largely in part due to him? No, otherwise we'd be seeing a massive amount of growth above the average, not ~2.5%.

Come on man, you’re just wasting everyone’s time on semantics. You understand what ForeverTFC is saying. Focus on real arguments. We’re all Raptors fans here and there are a lot of questions about the future.

[RomaniaLuvTR]

So many cry babies for this fan base...i loved Masai but let's be real last 4 5 seasons he was awful, lost many assets for free after the title, traded 1st rd picks for Thaddeus Young and Poeltl in rebuilding years, never traded up in a draft, all our drafts have been boring...he was a great gm until he wasn't anymore...he is not Messiah, Raptors will go on without him

[Tha Cynic]

The only track record we have on Ed Rogers' sports teams is his hiring of Shapiro with the Blue Jays (who was both highly sought after and well respected leaguewide at the time they got him). That's very little to go on.

What is it now - 9 years? Nothing to go on?

Somehow Masai is gone before this guy.

It’s pretty obvious that post was a reference to Ed’s hirings, for which he’s only directed one (Shapiro).

And the Jays have been far better than the Raptors over the past five years (in addition to the salary difference between the two), but that was already gone over in the previous thread. In any case, Shapiro will be out in a few short months too.

The Jays have accomplished absolutely nothing in the last 5 years. What are they being rated on? Shapiro biggest accomplishment here is his stadium renovation. Everything else has been a colossal failure. They came in with a young Vladdy and Bo and have done nothing to build the farm which is what they were brought in to do and have wasted 9 years with a terrible middling team that hadn’t won a playoff game yet. You yourself know they have been **** while typing these comments and you yourself know Shapiro should have been fired years ago.

I know - I used to be a Jays fan who watched them regularly for years before the Shapiro crew killed the Blue Jays for me. Ed Rogers leading a sports team has only been failures so far.

You trust them to make great hires who will lead this Raptors team to better pastures than Masai? lol. Well I hope you’re right because I’m a Raptors fan.

[Westside Gunn]

Yeah not sure why Shapiro and his buddy Shatkins have stuck around for as long as they have with the Jays. It also seemed Shapiro's Indians were always in purgatory status so when they made the move back then it wasnt even something to be excited for. I dont watch as much baseball as I used to but I can tell the Jays have been in the same purgatory status.

Its very likely back in 2015 Alex Anthopolous felt disrespected by the ownership and moved on.

[Tha Cynic]

Yeah not sure why Shapiro and his buddy Shatkins have stuck around for as long as they have with the Jays. It also seemed Shapiro's Indians were always in purgatory status so when they made the move back then it wasnt even something to be excited for. I dont watch as much baseball as I used to but I can tell the Jays have been in the same purgatory status.

Its very likely back in 2015 Alex Anthopolous felt disrespected by the ownership and moved on.

There’s not much to think about. It is very clearly due to Ed Rogers being a sleazeball who didn’t like Masai being bigger than him

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Still not sure much will change with Masai's administration largely in tact.

[anotherhomer]

Still not sure much will change with Masai's administration largely in tact.

They are only under contract for 2 more years and are essentially a placeholder for new mgmt

[tms]

Who are these tank-worthy gems that would have changed where we are right now? That’s what I don’t get. Other than a pair of unicorns at the very top for whom no team could possibly plan – unless you plan for 14% outcomes lol - the lottery's been a desert since at least 2021. NBA success is cyclical and we’re in a rebuild. Unfortunately the rebuild began just as the draft hit a dry spell. I ain't gonna blame that on Masai