Players who can be argued for Top 5 of all time

mdonnelly1989 · Post #1 » by **mdonnelly1989** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 6:12 pm

Lebron and MJ are absolute locks.

And truthfully I think this is more about a case against not being Top 5

Kareem had Oscar and basically all of Magics prime. And Kareem on top of having Magic had a great supporting cast. I don't know why nobody talks about this when ranking Kareem? I understand he's got 5 MVPs though.

Magic and Bird both absolutely qualify for Top 5. I'd much respect a list with either of those in your top 5.

Tim Duncan without a doubt can be argued Top 5. Bill Russell and Wilt your only argument against them can be ERA. But both for sure.

Shaq can be top 5 just on how dominant his prime was on top of 4 rings of course which is in elite territory.

I personally do not think Hakeem has a legit case for Top 5. 2 rings is low for this category and didn't dominate his ERA the same way Wilt dominated his.

I don't see a case for Steph Curry 2 of his rings of which KD had the finals MVP on top of plethora of role players. Jokic doesn't have near the longevity yet although he's making a history prime run.

Who I'm split on the most is Kobe. I slight on the edge of yes, given 5 rings 2 of which came without Shaq. And one of the most skilled players of all time. His efficiency is why I pause for a moment which simply isn't in the same class as the rest.

So players who do have a case

MJ
Lebron
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Duncan
Wilt
Bill

Who do not have a case

Hakeem
Steph

And split on Kobe

Primedeion · Post #2 » by **Primedeion** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 6:16 pm

Kobe's career scoring efficiency mark (104 TS+) is slightly worse than Larry Bird's (105 TS+). I don't think he's close to top five, but y'all just say stuff that's simply not true and it's hilarious.

mdonnelly1989 · Post #3 » by **mdonnelly1989** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 6:24 pm

Primedeion wrote:Kobe's career scoring efficiency mark (104 TS+) is slightly worse than Larry Bird's (105 TS+). I don't think he's close to top five, but y'all just say stuff that's simply not true and it's hilarious.

How about instead of feeling falsely superior you take the more secure in your own skin route and say

"Actually believe it or not...." but perhaps you need to feel better about yourself on a Forum online, just a thought.

okboomer · Post #4 » by **okboomer** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 6:26 pm

Steph has more of a case than Kobe. Neither are to me though.

Nate505 · Post #5 » by **Nate505** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 6:38 pm

No way. To me he has an argument for Top 10 of all time, but even that's a bit iffy.

Johnny Tomala · Post #6 » by **Johnny Tomala** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 6:39 pm

MJ
Kareem
Russell
LBJ
Wilt

That's my top 5.

I don't think You can make case for anyone else, but Magic is often in top 5, so maybe for him but that's big stretch.

EmpireFalls · Post #7 » by **EmpireFalls** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 6:42 pm

I don’t see why he couldn’t have an argument for top 5 all time when plenty of people put him there. It may not be an argument you agree with, but he has the most playoff series wins over 50-win teams in NBA history, 5 rings, great longevity, a lot of defensive accolades (which Magic/Bird do not have).

Sure he has an argument.

Kingsway_fan · Post #8 » by **Kingsway_fan** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 6:42 pm

1. Wilt...

2-5 ....

BodieB · Post #9 » by **BodieB** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 6:50 pm

Magic, Bron, MJ, Kareem are inarguable for my top 5.

Lalouie · Post #10 » by **Lalouie** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 6:59 pm

there's 5 about whom there is no argument, although one will be argued about

from 6>12, like Kobe,,,, THAT'S an argument

my irrefutables are composed of 7

Primedeion · Post #11 » by **Primedeion** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 7:04 pm

mdonnelly1989 wrote:
Primedeion wrote:Kobe's career scoring efficiency mark (104 TS+) is slightly worse than Larry Bird's (105 TS+). I don't think he's close to top five, but y'all just say stuff that's simply not true and it's hilarious.

How about instead of feeling falsely superior you take the more secure in your own skin route and say

"Actually believe it or not...." but perhaps you need to feel better about yourself on a Forum online, just a thought.

You said his efficiency isn't the same class as the rest and and are getting upset when people point out it's plenty comparable to several of those guys (Bird, Hakeem, Duncan...). Hilarious.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #12 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 7:04 pm

goat tier: Russ, KAJ, MJ, LBJ

#5: Duncan(imo)

arguable for #5: Hakeem, Shaq, Wilt, Magic

Bird I don't think has an argument due to not being a great shooter early on and having some duds in the playoffs. His body just broke down too soon.

Kobe is in the group below with Oscar, Jerry, Steph, KG, Dirk, Dr. J, Giannis and Jokic(for now who is soon to join the group above).

That is my view.

Mirotic12 · Post #13 » by **Mirotic12** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 7:12 pm

Wow, based on the poll results, the Kobe hate around here is at an unreal level.

Post #14 » by **tsherkin** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 7:22 pm

Primedeion wrote:Kobe's career scoring efficiency mark (104 TS+) is slightly worse than Larry Bird's (105 TS+). I don't think he's close to top five, but y'all just say stuff that's simply not true and it's hilarious.

Yes, I don't think scoring efficiency is really the issue with Kobe and a case for the top-5. Kobe was quite a bit more efficient than a lot of his detractors like to admit. He had some high-profile issues with efficiency in the Finals... but by and large, he was one of the best volume scorers we've seen... and was equally as often a monster in the WCFs as he was disappointing in the Finals, so I don't know how much that should really factor into things.

I think the problem is more that a lot of people weight his titles with Shaq as if he was the focal player on the team, which was never true, ignore his weaknesses, and ignore that he was never as dominant in terms relative to his peers in the league as the other top-5 guys. He wasn't consistently the best player in the league, or even top two, for any real stretch, which is the biggest difference relative to the guys generally accepted in the top-5. Bryant isn't really a top-10 guy, let alone top-5. But he's still among the best players to ever play the game, so ultimately it doesn't really matter that much.

Post #15 » by **cupcakesnake** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 7:30 pm

MJ, Kareem, Lebron, Russell, Duncan is my S-tier of all-time players. There happen to be 5 of them. If someone doesn't like one of these guys' cases (maybe you don't value defense and so Russell and Duncan drop for you), then I think the next tier of guys can all be argued for 1-2 of those spots.

Hakeem, Wilt, Shaq, KG, Curry, Bird, Magic is my next group.

Then I think you can make cases for some outlier old school players: Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, George Mikan. They're at the top of my third tier but they're probably the only ones I'd nod at seeing in someone else's top 5. The rest of this tier (Jokic, Admiral, Kobe, Dirk, Jokic, Dr. J, Nash, CP3, Durant, Giannis, Malone & Malone)... I have a hard time seeing any of these guys all the way up at 5th.

(I didn't put any of these tiers in order, fyi.

bkkrh · Post #16 » by **bkkrh** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 7:38 pm

For me MJ, Lebron, Kareem and Wilt are locks. Next it would be between Bill Russell, Magic and Bird for me. Personal favorite is Magic, but overall I guess there is no way around Bill Russell by the sheer level of dominance his teams had.

After those 8 it really gets hard to evaluate between Steph, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Oscar Robinson, Karl Malone and Kobe. Jokic is pretty much also already in that group. You can make the argument for Durant as well, same for Giannis.

So I'd say Kobe is overall somewhere between low top 10 player to top 20 player, but I don't see him as top 5. If the injury doesn't happen in 12-13 and he has a few more good seasons that result in another title, I could agree witht hat take.

NyKnicks1714 · Post #17 » by **NyKnicks1714** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 7:46 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:Wow, based on the poll results, the Kobe hate around here is at an unreal level.

Well make the top 5 case for Kobe then. That's the point of the thread.

Mirotic12 · Post #18 » by **Mirotic12** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 7:57 pm

NyKnicks1714 wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:Wow, based on the poll results, the Kobe hate around here is at an unreal level.

Well make the top 5 case for Kobe then. That's the point of the thread.

Based on the poll results, it's nothing worth wasting time on. The forum clearly has a lot of Kobe haters, if it's that opposed to him even being considered top 5.

NyKnicks1714 · Post #19 » by **NyKnicks1714** » Sun Jun 29, 2025 8:00 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:Wow, based on the poll results, the Kobe hate around here is at an unreal level.

Well make the top 5 case for Kobe then. That's the point of the thread.

Based on the poll results, it's nothing worth wasting time on. The forum clearly has a lot of Kobe haters, if it's that opposed to him even being considered top 5.

Hmm not very compelling

mdonnelly1989 · Post #20 » by **mdonnelly1989** » Mon Jun 30, 2025 12:31 am

Primedeion wrote:
mdonnelly1989 wrote:
Primedeion wrote:Kobe's career scoring efficiency mark (104 TS+) is slightly worse than Larry Bird's (105 TS+). I don't think he's close to top five, but y'all just say stuff that's simply not true and it's hilarious.

How about instead of feeling falsely superior you take the more secure in your own skin route and say

"Actually believe it or not...." but perhaps you need to feel better about yourself on a Forum online, just a thought.

You said his efficiency isn't the same class as the rest and and are getting upset when people point out it's plenty comparable to several of those guys (Bird, Hakeem, Duncan...). Hilarious.

However, what is hilarious is thinking that 1% true shooting over an entire career isn't a big deal. AND especially Kobe played about an entire decade after Larry Bird where TS% weren't on the same level league wide.

Yes. You are right its hysterical that you would think that. Nice Try Diddy. :lol:

Does Kobe have a case for Top 5 player of all time