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Just brilliant team building

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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#61 » by younggunsmn » Sun Jun 29, 2025 2:32 am

guest81 wrote:
winforlose wrote:
guest81 wrote:
1. They haven't squandered Ant. Quite the opposite. He's had a better team built around him than most superstars

2. Nobody knew the 2nd apron was coming. Kind of silly to think that they had some insider knowledge of something that was in negotiation.

3. Yes he does have a plan post Mike. His name is Dillingham.


1. I didn’t say the did. I said they could. If they dump Ant in a bad trade that would be worse. Again you are following what I am saying. I didn’t say it is already worse, I said it could get worse.

2. Everyone knew something was going to happen. Owners were pissed about the super spenders. I am not saying they knew the specifics, but they knew something punitive was coming. You don’t make the Gobert trade unless you plan to be a super spender too. If you knew the KAT was gonna need to be moved, you should never make the Gobert trade.

3. Dilly wasn’t a realistic likelihood in 2022/23 season. He had no way to know he would eventually be able to trade a 7 year future pick and 6 year future swap for a high lottery pick. A pick he seems to have blown. That means he missed on Moore and Dilly. If you call Minott and Miller misses that means TSJ and Clarke are the only hits in his tenure so far.


How has he blown the pick? Weird how we can call a 19 year a bust already.


To be honest having to play Rob while DDV was injured last year probably cost us 3 or 4 wins.
He's a pretty negative player on the court right now.

You expect a lot more from an 8th overall pick than he has shown so far.
If Rob Dillingham was a stock that stock would be underwater right now but I wouldnt call it a distressed asset quite yet.
But if we are counting on him to play regular minutes and he doesnt play well he's going to drag down our entire portfolio.

I think after the debacle we saw against OKC bringing in a steady 3rd PG is paramount.
And Rob is still going to need a bridge after Mike retires.
Tyus Jones would be great.
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#62 » by guest81 » Sun Jun 29, 2025 2:40 am

winforlose wrote:
guest81 wrote:
winforlose wrote:
1. I didn’t say the did. I said they could. If they dump Ant in a bad trade that would be worse. Again you are following what I am saying. I didn’t say it is already worse, I said it could get worse.

2. Everyone knew something was going to happen. Owners were pissed about the super spenders. I am not saying they knew the specifics, but they knew something punitive was coming. You don’t make the Gobert trade unless you plan to be a super spender too. If you knew the KAT was gonna need to be moved, you should never make the Gobert trade.

3. Dilly wasn’t a realistic likelihood in 2022/23 season. He had no way to know he would eventually be able to trade a 7 year future pick and 6 year future swap for a high lottery pick. A pick he seems to have blown. That means he missed on Moore and Dilly. If you call Minott and Miller misses that means TSJ and Clarke are the only hits in his tenure so far.


How has he blown the pick? Weird how we can call a 19 year a bust already.


I have given you the benefit of the doubt multiple times, but I have had enough. “ A pick he seems to have blown.” did you not see the word SEEMS. If you are gonna quote me at least do me the courtesy of not misquoting me and changing the meaning.

As for why he seems like a bust, see for yourself in the link below. To summarize he does nothing as well as you would expect a #8 pick to do. He has already on multiple occasions called out the coach publicly for lack of playing time. His size and defensive issues have not magically gone away. He is about as ready to start for the Wolves as I am. Behind him is Conley and DDV. A 38 year old who very much showed his age last year, and a SG with no feel for playing PG. Could Dilly turn it around, sure. Will he, it is less common to see guys with his kind of rookie year turn into starters than it is to see those same guys struggle to stay in the league. Time will tell.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dilliro01.html


When did he call out Finch? I don't remember that
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#63 » by jpatrick » Sun Jun 29, 2025 2:51 am

I’m not a huge Dillingham guy, but this seems a bit much. He weight 160 lbs. No chance he was going to make a huge impact this year. We’ll see what happens going forward. I have my doubts. But too early to throw bust around.

And TC has been an excellent drafter here. To pull TSJ as a late first round pick in a horrible draft last years, that’s good. Clarke as a second round pick, that’s good. And we can’t forget that Miller and Minott were both second round picks. Very very few of them ever make NBA contributions and Minott has gotten some sporadic rotation minutes and we’ll see what Miller does this year. And TC also pulled Kessler late in the first.

As you indicated, the problem was that TC didn’t anticipate the new CBA, which makes it impossible to be “spenders.” And I think you’re right, if he knew, no chance we ever trade for Gobert. I have no idea what our current roster would look like if that path was taken.
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#64 » by Domejandro » Sun Jun 29, 2025 3:21 am

younggunsmn wrote:
Domejandro wrote:Funnily enough, despite my reservations about the new ownership, I fully defend trading out of the 31st overall pick. The second round is largely just agents jostling to get their players guaranteed money. Minnesota went into the second round clearly liking Rocco Zikarsky a lot, and had a guarantee from his agent that he would take a two-way deal, preserving Minnesota's flexibility. Getting two extra seconds was positive, and then trading out of 36 to get cash for the player who the team planned to draft anyways is just good business. People hate the optics, but leaving money on the table would be completely pointless.



The interesting part is that if TC said there were 20 deals done already, he also knew what most of the picks were going to be.
That mitigates some of his trade down risk.
Whats the worst that can happen, a guy who didnt want to be here is forced to sign the standard 2 year minimum contract you are obligated to tender him?

Fracturing your team's relationship with agents, which is a catastrophic thing to do over second round picks. Keep in mind, it isn't just the amount of years, but also the starting salary figure that is a consideration.

People think that the NBA Draft is a dynamic and fast-paced thing, but internally most teams have a general idea how the Draft is going to shake out with prospect pools planned out ahead of time, especially during the Second Round (much more so now, with it being a two-day event). Minnesota went into the Second Round with a clear prospect in mind and coordinated with his agent to bring him here on a two-way deal.
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#65 » by younggunsmn » Sun Jun 29, 2025 4:40 am

Domejandro wrote:
younggunsmn wrote:
Domejandro wrote:Funnily enough, despite my reservations about the new ownership, I fully defend trading out of the 31st overall pick. The second round is largely just agents jostling to get their players guaranteed money. Minnesota went into the second round clearly liking Rocco Zikarsky a lot, and had a guarantee from his agent that he would take a two-way deal, preserving Minnesota's flexibility. Getting two extra seconds was positive, and then trading out of 36 to get cash for the player who the team planned to draft anyways is just good business. People hate the optics, but leaving money on the table would be completely pointless.



The interesting part is that if TC said there were 20 deals done already, he also knew what most of the picks were going to be.
That mitigates some of his trade down risk.
Whats the worst that can happen, a guy who didnt want to be here is forced to sign the standard 2 year minimum contract you are obligated to tender him?

Fracturing your team's relationship with agents, which is a catastrophic thing to do over second round picks. Keep in mind, it isn't just the amount of years, but also the starting salary figure that is a consideration.

People think that the NBA Draft is a dynamic and fast-paced thing, but internally most teams have a general idea how the Draft is going to shake out with prospect pools planned out ahead of time, especially during the Second Round (much more so now, with it being a two-day event). Minnesota went into the Second Round with a clear prospect in mind and coordinated with his agent to bring him here on a two-way deal.


Not drafting a player because the agent didn't like the fit is how you end up with a team full of bums.

None of the 2nd round picks drafted this year are going to get anything more than the 2nd round pick exception (minimum salary).

If you aren't willing to give a guy a guaranteed 1st year or even a roster spot that is another story.

If you're willing to give the player a fair contract there is no reason not to draft a player other than cowardice.
Sounds like we were not willing to do that with any of the guys at the top of the 2nd round this year because we preferred Luka Garza and Josh Minott, which kinda baffles me.

But I like Rocco more than I like Beringer so I'm good now, at least with the 2nd round.
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#66 » by winforlose » Sun Jun 29, 2025 5:59 am

guest81 wrote:
winforlose wrote:
guest81 wrote:
How has he blown the pick? Weird how we can call a 19 year a bust already.


I have given you the benefit of the doubt multiple times, but I have had enough. “ A pick he seems to have blown.” did you not see the word SEEMS. If you are gonna quote me at least do me the courtesy of not misquoting me and changing the meaning.

As for why he seems like a bust, see for yourself in the link below. To summarize he does nothing as well as you would expect a #8 pick to do. He has already on multiple occasions called out the coach publicly for lack of playing time. His size and defensive issues have not magically gone away. He is about as ready to start for the Wolves as I am. Behind him is Conley and DDV. A 38 year old who very much showed his age last year, and a SG with no feel for playing PG. Could Dilly turn it around, sure. Will he, it is less common to see guys with his kind of rookie year turn into starters than it is to see those same guys struggle to stay in the league. Time will tell.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dilliro01.html


When did he call out Finch? I don't remember that


I listened to a lot of Wolves Pods last year. I heard it through one of them. I remembered the story of Ant trying to explain to him rookies don’t play. There are more examples than this, including the shouting match between Finch and Dilly after Finch pulled Dilly after his first mistake.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6072278/2025/01/23/rob-dillingham-nba-spotlight-timberwolves/
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#67 » by _AIJ_ » Sun Jun 29, 2025 12:17 pm

shangrila wrote:Beringer could amount to nothing. We're a far cry from teams like San Antonio or Houston.

On the other hand there's a lot of doom and gloom in this fandom and that, given our situation, is ridiculous. So I agree with your sentiment.

EDIT: Removed the comment about Naz, hadn't seen the news

Spurs and Rockets? lmao those teams are overrated
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#68 » by jscott » Sun Jun 29, 2025 12:57 pm

Man some folks in here seem to forget that it was ARod and Lore who pushed for the hiring of Tim Connelly and how involved he’s been the entire time.

Taylor wanted to hire off the scrap heap again.
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#69 » by KGdaBom » Sun Jun 29, 2025 2:39 pm

Domejandro wrote:Funnily enough, despite my reservations about the new ownership, I fully defend trading out of the 31st overall pick. The second round is largely just agents jostling to get their players guaranteed money. Minnesota went into the second round clearly liking Rocco Zikarsky a lot, and had a guarantee from his agent that he would take a two-way deal, preserving Minnesota's flexibility. Getting two extra seconds was positive, and then trading out of 36 to get cash for the player who the team planned to draft anyways is just good business. People hate the optics, but leaving money on the table would be completely pointless.

Rocco could have been picked at any spot from 36 to 44. If we really wanted him we risked losing him for some cash.
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#70 » by Domejandro » Sun Jun 29, 2025 6:42 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Domejandro wrote:Funnily enough, despite my reservations about the new ownership, I fully defend trading out of the 31st overall pick. The second round is largely just agents jostling to get their players guaranteed money. Minnesota went into the second round clearly liking Rocco Zikarsky a lot, and had a guarantee from his agent that he would take a two-way deal, preserving Minnesota's flexibility. Getting two extra seconds was positive, and then trading out of 36 to get cash for the player who the team planned to draft anyways is just good business. People hate the optics, but leaving money on the table would be completely pointless.

Rocco could have been picked at any spot from 36 to 44. If we really wanted him we risked losing him for some cash.

Reiterating what I said elsewhere in the thread, the Draft order is roughly known by teams, and Rocco’s agent clearly pushed him towards Minnesota. Rocco didn’t really workout with other teams, it’s clear that Minnesota and him went into the Draft with an agreement. It is extremely unlikely that teams would reach and pick him against his will, that just isn’t how the Second Round works. Teams generally have a range of prospects that they like, and agents negotiate ahead of time to get their players guaranteed money and/or playing time opportunities. If someone jumped up and randomly drafted Rocco against his agent’s request, Minnesota likely had other prospects on the board that they liked (but again, extremely unlikely given how the Second Round works).
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#71 » by minimus » Sun Jun 29, 2025 6:52 pm

Domejandro wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Domejandro wrote:Funnily enough, despite my reservations about the new ownership, I fully defend trading out of the 31st overall pick. The second round is largely just agents jostling to get their players guaranteed money. Minnesota went into the second round clearly liking Rocco Zikarsky a lot, and had a guarantee from his agent that he would take a two-way deal, preserving Minnesota's flexibility. Getting two extra seconds was positive, and then trading out of 36 to get cash for the player who the team planned to draft anyways is just good business. People hate the optics, but leaving money on the table would be completely pointless.

Rocco could have been picked at any spot from 36 to 44. If we really wanted him we risked losing him for some cash.

Reiterating what I said elsewhere in the thread, the Draft order is roughly known by teams, and Rocco’s agent clearly pushed him towards Minnesota. Rocco didn’t really workout with other teams, it’s clear that Minnesota and him went into the Draft with an agreement. It is extremely unlikely that teams would reach and pick him against his will, that just isn’t how the Second Round works. Teams generally have a range of prospects that they like, and agents negotiate ahead of time to get their players guaranteed money and/or playing time opportunities. If someone jumped up and randomly drafted Rocco against his agent’s request, Minnesota likely had other prospects on the board that they liked (but again, extremely unlikely given how the Second Round works).


This might explain a very strange promo campaign from Rocco.
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#72 » by KGdaBom » Sun Jun 29, 2025 6:54 pm

Domejandro wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Domejandro wrote:Funnily enough, despite my reservations about the new ownership, I fully defend trading out of the 31st overall pick. The second round is largely just agents jostling to get their players guaranteed money. Minnesota went into the second round clearly liking Rocco Zikarsky a lot, and had a guarantee from his agent that he would take a two-way deal, preserving Minnesota's flexibility. Getting two extra seconds was positive, and then trading out of 36 to get cash for the player who the team planned to draft anyways is just good business. People hate the optics, but leaving money on the table would be completely pointless.

Rocco could have been picked at any spot from 36 to 44. If we really wanted him we risked losing him for some cash.

Reiterating what I said elsewhere in the thread, the Draft order is roughly known by teams, and Rocco’s agent clearly pushed him towards Minnesota. Rocco didn’t really workout with other teams, it’s clear that Minnesota and him went into the Draft with an agreement. It is extremely unlikely that teams would reach and pick him against his will, that just isn’t how the Second Round works. Teams generally have a range of prospects that they like, and agents negotiate ahead of time to get their players guaranteed money and/or playing time opportunities. If someone jumped up and randomly drafted Rocco against his agent’s request, Minnesota likely had other prospects on the board that they liked (but again, extremely unlikely given how the Second Round works).

What you're proposing sounds like BLATANT COLLUSION. Even if it's beneficial to the players it shouldn't be allowed.
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#73 » by Sealab2024 » Sun Jun 29, 2025 6:59 pm

Domejandro wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Domejandro wrote:Funnily enough, despite my reservations about the new ownership, I fully defend trading out of the 31st overall pick. The second round is largely just agents jostling to get their players guaranteed money. Minnesota went into the second round clearly liking Rocco Zikarsky a lot, and had a guarantee from his agent that he would take a two-way deal, preserving Minnesota's flexibility. Getting two extra seconds was positive, and then trading out of 36 to get cash for the player who the team planned to draft anyways is just good business. People hate the optics, but leaving money on the table would be completely pointless.

Rocco could have been picked at any spot from 36 to 44. If we really wanted him we risked losing him for some cash.

Reiterating what I said elsewhere in the thread, the Draft order is roughly known by teams, and Rocco’s agent clearly pushed him towards Minnesota. Rocco didn’t really workout with other teams, it’s clear that Minnesota and him went into the Draft with an agreement. It is extremely unlikely that teams would reach and pick him against his will, that just isn’t how the Second Round works. Teams generally have a range of prospects that they like, and agents negotiate ahead of time to get their players guaranteed money and/or playing time opportunities. If someone jumped up and randomly drafted Rocco against his agent’s request, Minnesota likely had other prospects on the board that they liked (but again, extremely unlikely given how the Second Round works).


It's the inevitable conclusion of non guaranteed contracts for second rounders. Agents are gonna shop guys around until they find a team that's a fit, wants their guy and will guarantee him the base 2-way contract. If they don't then their guy goes where there's no roster spot, no need for the prospect and no chance for any money beyond the summer league.

Agents are just playing the game by the rules they've been given. Guarantee 2-way contracts for 2nd rounders and this disappears.
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#74 » by KGdaBom » Sun Jun 29, 2025 7:00 pm

Teams agreeing I won't take your player if you don't take mine is absolutely colluding.
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#75 » by Domejandro » Sun Jun 29, 2025 7:19 pm

KGdaBom wrote:Teams agreeing I won't take your player if you don't take mine is absolutely colluding.

For what it is worth, not in an unethical sense. Teams agents, and players are all allowed to negotiate with one another to find deals that benefit each party. Teams are fully within their rights to ignore that and draft for talent (look at Utah with Ace Bailey), but each party is well within their rights to push for whatever benefits them.

What keeps it from being unethical collusion is that the players are not signed or controlled by any team, so their agents are fully within their rights to negotiate with teams. Think of it like Restricted Free-Agency where a player is free to shop for deals with other teams, but the team that holds their rights are well within their rights to match whatever contract that they sign.
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#76 » by KGdaBom » Sun Jun 29, 2025 7:26 pm

Domejandro wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Teams agreeing I won't take your player if you don't take mine is absolutely colluding.

For what it is worth, not in an unethical sense. Teams agents, and players are all allowed to negotiate with one another to find deals that benefit each party. Teams are fully within their rights to ignore that and draft for talent (look at Utah with Ace Bailey), but each party is well within their rights to push for whatever benefits them.

What keeps it from being unethical collusion is that the players are not signed or controlled by any team, so their agents are fully within their rights to negotiate with teams. Think of it like Restricted Free-Agency where a player is free to shop for deals with other teams, but the team that holds their rights are well within their rights to match whatever contract that they sign.

I just looked up the term collusion. a conspiracy between two or more individuals with the intent of deceiving others, typically with some form of gain for the involved parties.

I didn't realize it had to be deceitful to be colluding. So if they do it openly with no intent to deceive it's not collusion. If there is any intent to deceive it is collusion.
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#77 » by younggunsmn » Sun Jun 29, 2025 9:21 pm

Domejandro wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Teams agreeing I won't take your player if you don't take mine is absolutely colluding.

For what it is worth, not in an unethical sense. Teams agents, and players are all allowed to negotiate with one another to find deals that benefit each party. Teams are fully within their rights to ignore that and draft for talent (look at Utah with Ace Bailey), but each party is well within their rights to push for whatever benefits them.

What keeps it from being unethical collusion is that the players are not signed or controlled by any team, so their agents are fully within their rights to negotiate with teams. Think of it like Restricted Free-Agency where a player is free to shop for deals with other teams, but the team that holds their rights are well within their rights to match whatever contract that they sign.


Teams should not be able to discuss contract parameters with potential draft picks before they have the rights to them.
Although that is exactly how it is in baseball.

I think you are overstating this effect though based on "TC's 20 teams had deals lined up" comments.

Agents are basically lining up a floor for their player ahead of time.
Most of this is guys just getting promises from teams to make them stay in the draft and those teams keeping those promises.
If they go higher, that could be better or could be worse but its out of their control.

Maybe we had made a promise to Zikarsky since he worked out here in his pre-draft process and were expecting to maybe have another 2nd round pick lined up in a trade down from 17, like getting 43 from Utah.
Breaking a promise to a player is a lot worse than taking a guy who had a promise from another team.
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#78 » by Domejandro » Sun Jun 29, 2025 10:15 pm

younggunsmn wrote:
Domejandro wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Teams agreeing I won't take your player if you don't take mine is absolutely colluding.

For what it is worth, not in an unethical sense. Teams agents, and players are all allowed to negotiate with one another to find deals that benefit each party. Teams are fully within their rights to ignore that and draft for talent (look at Utah with Ace Bailey), but each party is well within their rights to push for whatever benefits them.

What keeps it from being unethical collusion is that the players are not signed or controlled by any team, so their agents are fully within their rights to negotiate with teams. Think of it like Restricted Free-Agency where a player is free to shop for deals with other teams, but the team that holds their rights are well within their rights to match whatever contract that they sign.


Teams should not be able to discuss contract parameters with potential draft picks before they have the rights to them.
Although that is exactly how it is in baseball.

I think you are overstating this effect though based on "TC's 20 teams had deals lined up" comments.

Agents are basically lining up a floor for their player ahead of time.
Most of this is guys just getting promises from teams to make them stay in the draft and those teams keeping those promises.
If they go higher, that could be better or could be worse but its out of their control.

Maybe we had made a promise to Zikarsky since he worked out here in his pre-draft process and were expecting to maybe have another 2nd round pick lined up in a trade down from 17, like getting 43 from Utah.
Breaking a promise to a player is a lot worse than taking a guy who had a promise from another team.

For what it is worth, the second round has always been like this, it isn't based on Tim Connelly's comments at all. Fred VanVleet opted to not get drafted because interested teams wanted to stash him in the G-League for a couple years (this was back when salaries were really rough). Instead, he opted to not get drafted, signed a Summer League deal with Toronto which had a "must play in three games" clause so he could showcase himself, and the rest is history. Fred VanVleet made life changing money because him and his agent were able to line-up a Summer League opportunity, rather than agreeing to be locked away in the G-League.


That said, I don't see why teams shouldn't be able to negotiate contract parameters with players. What benefit is there for the NBA, teams, or players is there for teams to go into the NBA Draft blindly drafting players; this is a professional league and we are talking about seven figure contracts. Using Rocco as an example, imagine if he was coming into the NBA expecting to get a regular rookie salary and Minnesota wanted him on a two-way. Those misaligned expectations don't benefit anyone, it would just lead to teams wasting Draft picks. It would be like if teams couldn't discuss with players about playing time expectations, that wouldn't be good.
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#79 » by KGdaBom » Sun Jun 29, 2025 10:30 pm

Domejandro wrote:
younggunsmn wrote:
Domejandro wrote:For what it is worth, not in an unethical sense. Teams agents, and players are all allowed to negotiate with one another to find deals that benefit each party. Teams are fully within their rights to ignore that and draft for talent (look at Utah with Ace Bailey), but each party is well within their rights to push for whatever benefits them.

What keeps it from being unethical collusion is that the players are not signed or controlled by any team, so their agents are fully within their rights to negotiate with teams. Think of it like Restricted Free-Agency where a player is free to shop for deals with other teams, but the team that holds their rights are well within their rights to match whatever contract that they sign.


Teams should not be able to discuss contract parameters with potential draft picks before they have the rights to them.
Although that is exactly how it is in baseball.

I think you are overstating this effect though based on "TC's 20 teams had deals lined up" comments.

Agents are basically lining up a floor for their player ahead of time.
Most of this is guys just getting promises from teams to make them stay in the draft and those teams keeping those promises.
If they go higher, that could be better or could be worse but its out of their control.

Maybe we had made a promise to Zikarsky since he worked out here in his pre-draft process and were expecting to maybe have another 2nd round pick lined up in a trade down from 17, like getting 43 from Utah.
Breaking a promise to a player is a lot worse than taking a guy who had a promise from another team.

For what it is worth, the second round has always been like this, it isn't based on Tim Connelly's comments at all. Fred VanVleet opted to not get drafted because interested teams wanted to stash him in the G-League for a couple years (this was back when salaries were really rough). Instead, he opted to not get drafted, signed a Summer League deal with Toronto which had a "must play in three games" clause so he could showcase himself, and the rest is history. Fred VanVleet made life changing money because him and his agent were able to line-up a Summer League opportunity, rather than agreeing to be locked away in the G-League.


That said, I don't see why teams shouldn't be able to negotiate contract parameters with players. What benefit is there for the NBA, teams, or players is there for teams to go into the NBA Draft blindly drafting players; this is a professional league and we are talking about seven figure contracts. Using Rocco as an example, imagine if he was coming into the NBA expecting to get a regular rookie salary and Minnesota wanted him on a two-way. Those misaligned expectations don't benefit anyone, it would just lead to teams wasting Draft picks. It would be like if teams couldn't discuss with players about playing time expectations, that wouldn't be good.

My problem wasn't with discussing potential contracts with the players. It seemed to me like shenanigans were going on with the teams discussing who was their guy with other teams.
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Re: Just brilliant team building 

Post#80 » by Battletrigger » Sun Jun 29, 2025 10:58 pm

We have declined Garza and Minott options. Happy to not see Minott in the team again, what a waste of time.

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