Bulls FA and Lineup

[sco]

1) First, second and third, should be getting rid of Vuc by any means necessary (not giving up a 1st, Coby, Matas, Giddey, Noa...but everything else should be on the table including buyout). IMO he hurts both performance and development. At least I feel like AK is on board here.

I agree with almost all your points but not this one. Of course, Vucevic isn't very good and isn't a part of the future. However, if there isn't a reasonable trade out there for a center that will be here long-term, I'd rather him stick around. He's not taking any minutes from a player who needs to be developed. He also seems to be a good vet presence who can help the other players. Maybe see what's available at the trade deadline. Worst case, they punt this year on a future center and address things next year when their "financial flexibility" is at its highest.

Here's where I see it differently. IMO, the defensive adjustments necessary to cover up for the worst defensive C in the league hurt our team, not to mention, make our other guys look like worse defenders which lowers their trade value. Add to that the fact that Vuc is only really effective if he is fed the ball constantly as he's not able to generate his own offense...just another guy who can't add value on the court without the ball in his hands. More importantly, I'm looking for Matas to step into a 3rd option role (ideally 2nd, but prob not yet), and that cannot happen with Vuc here.

[Infinity2152]

1) First, second and third, should be getting rid of Vuc by any means necessary (not giving up a 1st, Coby, Matas, Giddey, Noa...but everything else should be on the table including buyout). IMO he hurts both performance and development. At least I feel like AK is on board here.

I agree with almost all your points but not this one. Of course, Vucevic isn't very good and isn't a part of the future. However, if there isn't a reasonable trade out there for a center that will be here long-term, I'd rather him stick around. He's not taking any minutes from a player who needs to be developed. He also seems to be a good vet presence who can help the other players. Maybe see what's available at the trade deadline. Worst case, they punt this year on a future center and address things next year when their "financial flexibility" is at its highest.

Have to back you with this one. This season's record doesn't matter much. We're not likely getting a center back in any Vucevic trade. We're getting guards/forwards who will take time from the 7 players we're already evaluating. To me, one of Vuc or Collins needs to be traded, doesn't matter which one because we have Smith. But there's no immediate need. Like he said, the only minutes Vuc takes is from Collins and Smith.

Vucevic is a solid vet who knows how to play basketball. A deal will come, other teams will want 18pts/11rbs, 37% 3pt, we're literally the only team trying to give that up, lmao! But whether it's him or Collins, look for and get the best deal. Tired or wasting resources. Vucevic is damn good offensively and rebounding, he's not good on defense and been surrounded by weak defenders (Giddey, Coby, Zach, Debo). Best shooting center, good next to Noa until he picks his shooting up. It's not all bad if he isn't moved till the deadline.

Hopefully we see Matas and Noa next to Vucevic if he's here anyway. Make them up their rim protection early. Much better than Pat Will or some 6'5" guy next to Vuc like the last few years. Either Noa or Matas could end up like JJJ, rim protecting, shot blocking PF's. How great would that be?

[sco]

1) First, second and third, should be getting rid of Vuc by any means necessary (not giving up a 1st, Coby, Matas, Giddey, Noa...but everything else should be on the table including buyout). IMO he hurts both performance and development. At least I feel like AK is on board here.

I agree with almost all your points but not this one. Of course, Vucevic isn't very good and isn't a part of the future. However, if there isn't a reasonable trade out there for a center that will be here long-term, I'd rather him stick around. He's not taking any minutes from a player who needs to be developed. He also seems to be a good vet presence who can help the other players. Maybe see what's available at the trade deadline. Worst case, they punt this year on a future center and address things next year when their "financial flexibility" is at its highest.

Have to back you with this one. This season's record doesn't matter much. We're not likely getting a center back in any Vucevic trade. We're getting guards/forwards who will take time from the 7 players we're already evaluating. To me, one of Vuc or Collins needs to be traded, doesn't matter which one because we have Smith. But there's no immediate need. Like he said, the only minutes Vuc takes is from Collins and Smith.

Vucevic is a solid vet who knows how to play basketball. A deal will come, other teams will want 18pts/11rbs, 37% 3pt, we're literally the only team trying to give that up, lmao! But whether it's him or Collins, look for and get the best deal. Tired or wasting resources. Vucevic is damn good offensively and rebounding, he's not good on defense and been surrounded by weak defenders (Giddey, Coby, Zach, Debo). Best shooting center, good next to Noa until he picks his shooting up. It's not all bad if he isn't moved till the deadline.

Hopefully we see Matas and Noa next to Vucevic if he's here anyway. Make them up their rim protection early. Much better than Pat Will or some 6'5" guy next to Vuc like the last few years. Either Noa or Matas could end up like JJJ, rim protecting, shot blocking PF's. How great would that be?

I will just say that next season matters in terms of really seeing guys we are thinking about building around, not otherwise impacted by Vuc's limitations.

[Infinity2152]

I agree with almost all your points but not this one. Of course, Vucevic isn't very good and isn't a part of the future. However, if there isn't a reasonable trade out there for a center that will be here long-term, I'd rather him stick around. He's not taking any minutes from a player who needs to be developed. He also seems to be a good vet presence who can help the other players. Maybe see what's available at the trade deadline. Worst case, they punt this year on a future center and address things next year when their "financial flexibility" is at its highest.

Have to back you with this one. This season's record doesn't matter much. We're not likely getting a center back in any Vucevic trade. We're getting guards/forwards who will take time from the 7 players we're already evaluating. To me, one of Vuc or Collins needs to be traded, doesn't matter which one because we have Smith. But there's no immediate need. Like he said, the only minutes Vuc takes is from Collins and Smith.

Vucevic is a solid vet who knows how to play basketball. A deal will come, other teams will want 18pts/11rbs, 37% 3pt, we're literally the only team trying to give that up, lmao! But whether it's him or Collins, look for and get the best deal. Tired or wasting resources. Vucevic is damn good offensively and rebounding, he's not good on defense and been surrounded by weak defenders (Giddey, Coby, Zach, Debo). Best shooting center, good next to Noa until he picks his shooting up. It's not all bad if he isn't moved till the deadline.

Hopefully we see Matas and Noa next to Vucevic if he's here anyway. Make them up their rim protection early. Much better than Pat Will or some 6'5" guy next to Vuc like the last few years. Either Noa or Matas could end up like JJJ, rim protecting, shot blocking PF's. How great would that be?

I will just say that next season matters in terms of really seeing guys we are thinking about building around, not otherwise impacted by Vuc's limitations.

With you there! It's great being able to just talk Bulls talk, share thoughts and theories everyday with Bulls fans. Used to be way harder fo find people who actually knew what the hell they were talking about, lol! People argue a lot back and forth in here, but at least most are well informed. You know I'm an optimist. Vuc will be gone when he's gone, until then I'll focus on the positives instead of the negatives. Only guy I can see actually affected as far as development and minutes is Smith. I do want to see more Smith, of course.

I'd say the expiring Coby is a way bigger deal. If Vucevic's contract is going to be used in a Coby trade, since Coby only makes $12 mill, would focus on what we're doing with Coby first. If we are trading Coby, his trade value likely goes down more every day after the season starts.

[sco]

Have to back you with this one. This season's record doesn't matter much. We're not likely getting a center back in any Vucevic trade. We're getting guards/forwards who will take time from the 7 players we're already evaluating. To me, one of Vuc or Collins needs to be traded, doesn't matter which one because we have Smith. But there's no immediate need. Like he said, the only minutes Vuc takes is from Collins and Smith.

Vucevic is a solid vet who knows how to play basketball. A deal will come, other teams will want 18pts/11rbs, 37% 3pt, we're literally the only team trying to give that up, lmao! But whether it's him or Collins, look for and get the best deal. Tired or wasting resources. Vucevic is damn good offensively and rebounding, he's not good on defense and been surrounded by weak defenders (Giddey, Coby, Zach, Debo). Best shooting center, good next to Noa until he picks his shooting up. It's not all bad if he isn't moved till the deadline.

Hopefully we see Matas and Noa next to Vucevic if he's here anyway. Make them up their rim protection early. Much better than Pat Will or some 6'5" guy next to Vuc like the last few years. Either Noa or Matas could end up like JJJ, rim protecting, shot blocking PF's. How great would that be?

I will just say that next season matters in terms of really seeing guys we are thinking about building around, not otherwise impacted by Vuc's limitations.

With you there! It's great being able to just talk Bulls talk, share thoughts and theories everyday with Bulls fans. Used to be way harder fo find people who actually knew what the hell they were talking about, lol! People argue a lot back and forth in here, but at least most are well informed. You know I'm an optimist. Vuc will be gone when he's gone, until then I'll focus on the positives instead of the negatives. Only guy I can see actually affected as far as development and minutes is Smith. I do want to see more Smith, of course.

I'd say the expiring Coby is a way bigger deal. If Vucevic's contract is going to be used in a Coby trade, since Coby only makes $12 mill, would focus on what we're doing with Coby first. If we are trading Coby, his trade value likely goes down more every day after the season starts.

I'm not opposed to trading Coby for value, but I don't see AK doing it. He might listen, but I don't see him moving on.

[Infinity2152]

I will just say that next season matters in terms of really seeing guys we are thinking about building around, not otherwise impacted by Vuc's limitations.

With you there! It's great being able to just talk Bulls talk, share thoughts and theories everyday with Bulls fans. Used to be way harder fo find people who actually knew what the hell they were talking about, lol! People argue a lot back and forth in here, but at least most are well informed. You know I'm an optimist. Vuc will be gone when he's gone, until then I'll focus on the positives instead of the negatives. Only guy I can see actually affected as far as development and minutes is Smith. I do want to see more Smith, of course.

I'd say the expiring Coby is a way bigger deal. If Vucevic's contract is going to be used in a Coby trade, since Coby only makes $12 mill, would focus on what we're doing with Coby first. If we are trading Coby, his trade value likely goes down more every day after the season starts.

I'm not opposed to trading Coby for value, but I don't see AK doing it. He might listen, but I don't see him moving on.

I know, and that's a scary thought. Coby will have 7 yrs of experience after next season. That pushes his max contract from 25% to 30% of the cap. Cap projected at $170 mill. That puts Coby's max around $51 mill, with possible 5 yrs and 8% raises since he's resigning with his own team.

The very fact that a lot of us (including you) think he's not moving on is the same reason to think he will sign a max to near max contract. Either AK really values him and wants to keep him, enough to take this huge risk of losing him for nothing, or he doesn't. And we'll likely have a ton of cap space, he'll have no leverage to lowball Coby.

I expect Coby could do 24-25 pts a night with this current roster. Even more possible if Vucevic is gone, lots of extra shots open up. Going to be real hard to argue not paying him a max contract when he's putting up the same numbers or better than a lot of other players who get max. Add in the fact that he's probably been worth about at least $20 mill/yr the last two years. By the time we hit next summer, he may feel we owe him $30 mill and I wouldn't really blame him.

Maybe he'll be worth a max contract, who knows? But we have options now, we'll have way less options as far as Coby next summer.

[Repeat 3-peat]

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[GoBlue72391]

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The next time we get a contributor out of a two-way player will be the first time. Which is wild considering we're going on year 9 of two-way contracts being a thing. Our best two-way contract to date is Ryan Arcidiacono.

The fact that we haven't found even one fringe rotation player in a decade speaks volumes about the organization. I think they view two-ways as a complete after thought.

[_txchilibowl_]

All-Time NBA G League Call-Ups - The NBA G League https://share.google/NWXIpDDeXSUenLew0

Nobody gets contributors out of the G League. This link is titled All-Time NBA G League Call Ups and Jordan Bell is on it like six times.

[Chi town]

How much better will the Bulls be next season if Vuc is gone and Tre resigns?

We should be middle fo the pack on D and our pace should increase second season in with better conditioning and Vuc not slowing us down. Better defense should create more easy offense as well.

[sco]

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What sort of contract is it? NBA or 2-way or Gleague?

I really like him as a 2-way again.

[GoBlue72391]

All-Time NBA G League Call-Ups - The NBA G League https://share.google/NWXIpDDeXSUenLew0

Nobody gets contributors out of the G League. This link is titled All-Time NBA G League Call Ups and Jordan Bell is on it like six times.

We're talking about two-way contracts, not G League call ups. Two totally different things, and yes, teams do occasionally get contributors out of them too.

[GoBlue72391]

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What sort of contract is it? NBA or 2-way or Gleague?

I really like him as a 2-way again.

Definitely another two-way.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Jabari Smith getting a 5/122 contract.

To me that is a bit of an overpay. Especially when you figure he is off the bench this coming season.

[burlydee]

My prediction

PG: Giddey /Jones / Carter (I think the Bulls like him and AK hates losing guys for nothing)

SG: Coby / Terry / THT (I think the Bulls plan is to try and bring back Coby. Regardless, Coby is the Bulls most important offensive player and a key to being competitive thos season which i think they want to be. Ayo will be traded is my prediction. They can't pay him and Coby and Coby brings the more unique skillset for this team. I think the Bulls like THT.

SF: Okoro / Huerter (Camp battle for the 5th starter - Huerter v Okoro. I think Okoro wins and takes toughest perimeter match up each game. His only goal - get Stacy to scream there are 5 Okoro's out there.)

PF - Matas / Williams/ Essengue. (All these guys will play. Essengue probably more after the all star break. Matas and Williams will get a chance at the 3 as well).

Vuc / Collins / Smith (Would not be surprised if any of these guys got traded but also not surprised if Bulls continue to overvalued Vuc. I wouldn't expect anything until towards the end of free agency unless in combo with Ayo)

Phillips and Terry on extremely thin ice.

[kulaz3000]

I think it's a mistake to not try Matas at small forward more often this upcoming season. He has the speed, agility to be a small forward. The only downside is that it takes him away from the basket probably a little more which would negate his shot blocking qualities. But then again, these days, both forward positions play away from the basket quite a bit anyhow.

[greenwing]

I think it's a mistake to not try Matas at small forward more often this upcoming season. He has the speed, agility to be a small forward. The only downside is that it takes him away from the basket probably a little more which would negate his shot blocking qualities. But then again, these days, both forward positions play away from the basket quite a bit anyhow.

They could have him switch to the 4 on defense depending on matchups.

[Chi town]

I think it's a mistake to not try Matas at small forward more often this upcoming season. He has the speed, agility to be a small forward. The only downside is that it takes him away from the basket probably a little more which would negate his shot blocking qualities. But then again, these days, both forward positions play away from the basket quite a bit anyhow.

Fully agree. Stretch him. See what he can do.

He will be the 3 when Noa is on the court with him due to handle and 3 ball

[rosenthall]

If nothing else changes I think our lineup is this:

Starting 5:

Giddey
Coby
Huerter / Okoro (not sure which one wins -- could see it going either way)
Matas
Vuc

Bench:

Tre
Ayo
Huerter / Okoro (whichever one loses)
Pat
Collins

Deep Bench:

Carter
Terry
Phillips
Noa
Jalen

I think our rotation goes 10 deep this year, and deep bench comes in whenever someone gets injured.

I imagine we'll trade at least one center this offseason, but will wait for that to happen before I update my assumptions.

If Tre doesn't resign Ayo moves up to backup PG and one of Terry / Phillips / Noa assumes the 10th man role.

I think Noa basically gets buried until after the All-Star break. He's a project, we're trying to win, and Billy likes to keep rookies on a short leash.

I hope we just buyout Carter so he can sign somewhere else on the vet min and we get an extra roster spot to play with.

[_txchilibowl_]

All-Time NBA G League Call-Ups - The NBA G League https://share.google/NWXIpDDeXSUenLew0

Nobody gets contributors out of the G League. This link is titled All-Time NBA G League Call Ups and Jordan Bell is on it like six times.

We're talking about two-way contracts, not G League call ups. Two totally different things, and yes, teams do occasionally get contributors out of them too.

My mistake. Even still there's only ever been 10-12ish notable players ever signed from a 2-way. And that's league wide over the course of nine seasons, as you mentioned.

Seems like an unfair criticism of AK.