Shams: New York Knicks Fire Head Coach Tom Thibodeau

[tsherkin]

You show how Thibs improved every team he coached, then you call him a bum. Something doesn't add up.

Well that's what I'm saying. Was it him? Did he not arrive in Chicago at the right time and that catapulted his reputation, thus career? I mean if anything it SHOULD have given the biggest red flag ever. He was an AC for so many years and then his Derrick Rose....Errrmm Chicago years propelled him to....a screaming halt, then multiple stops to only fail with his very own philosophy time and time again. He can be a good coach and be called a bum though right? Why do people call players that are clearly very good, bums, yet a HC that has a track record that is similar is what? If you want to be brutal, be brutal, but be consistent.

Thibs was worth about 10 wins a season in Chicago. That team he got to 48 wins with when Derrick was out was awful. The 62 win team was a 50 win team type talent with almost zero offense outside of Rose.

As soon as Thibs left, Hoiberg won like 8 games less with virtually the same team and got bounced in the first round.

Thibs issue is actually this "regular season bounce". He gets his team to perform at a level above its talent and then it gets exposed in the playoffs.

The Knicks aren't a great team. Unless they make a major trade, I bet they win in the low 40's next year and get bounced in the first round.

I mean, I think in this case, the franchise just crapped their brains. Getting rid of Thibs after they did so well in the playoffs was wild, especially since Thibs wasn't responsible for the roster. Yeah, he loaded minutes on his guys, but look at the offense in the playoffs, right? OG fell apart, Josh Hart wasn't a volume scorer, KAT was pretty inconsistent, Bridges was pretty inconsistent, and eventually leaning on a 6'2 guard as a volume scorer broke down, as it typically does. Particularly with how KAT crapped himself in Game 6 against Indy.

Not a lot else there to do for Thibs, unless he was expected to be a savant offensive coach with that particular group.

[NZB2323]

This is where its at. Let's all be honest here. The Knicks were never, EVER, going anywhere with Thibs. The era, if there really were such a thing of not trusting your bench in important moments, of, just that, is over and let's be honest here as well, Thibs is an extremist that many others could do that same thing IF they employed the same tactics, but EVERYONE knows it's not good as a long term strategy.

I mean outside of taking over a Bulls team that was primed to elevate with a young Rose that went from AS to MVP what has he really done in terms of making a team better?

Took over a Bulls team that went 41-41. 1st year to 62 wins and that was career high. His first year was career high.
Was it him, or Derrick Rose?
He literally took the Bulls at their peak and went from 62, equivalent of 62, 45, 48, 50 wins.
Then got to TWolves and drag them from 26 wins to 31. Then a jump to 47 wins. Only to burn out your welcome once again and get fired with under .500 record.
Then go to Knicks and gets to suck the remaining life left of Rose out of him along with a great season by Randle that scraped them into POs. Then he missed. HAHA. But not before JB came along, and the Knicks forfeited their future on Bridges and OG just to give Thibs some sort of chance. He couldn't quit bring even these guys there.

Come on everyone. If Thibs was a player. You would be calling him a bum. Simple as that. We all heard y'all call EVERY player bar 4-5 a bum during the POs. Why not the execs? Why not the HCs? Why not the Assistants? Thibs himself has had the players and rosters throughout his career and been horrific TBH. Just because others have done worse, doesn't mean he's done a good job.

It's his philosophy that holds them back and just because the NBA is a close knit community of people that don't hire outside of it, they keep it in house, doesn't mean someone else can't do it or won't be successful. We're breaking the barriers down right now and its reaping rewards in every department.

You show how Thibs improved every team he coached, then you call him a bum. Something doesn't add up.

Well that's what I'm saying. Was it him? Did he not arrive in Chicago at the right time and that catapulted his reputation, thus career? I mean if anything it SHOULD have given the biggest red flag ever. He was an AC for so many years and then his Derrick Rose....Errrmm Chicago years propelled him to....a screaming halt, then multiple stops to only fail with his very own philosophy time and time again. He can be a good coach and be called a bum though right? Why do people call players that are clearly very good, bums, yet a HC that has a track record that is similar is what? If you want to be brutal, be brutal, but be consistent.

What coach would have done better with his rosters?

The 2011 Bulls were 1st in defensive efficiency, which wasn’t all Rose. Rose was also 22 and no one expected him to have the year he had, which the coach should get some credit for. And the bench mob did a great job that year, showing that Thibbs will use his bench if he has a good one.

The 2013 Bulls didn’t have Rose and they won 45 games and beat the Deron Williams/Joe Johnson/Brook Lopez Nets when Deng and Hinrich were injured.

Thibbs also helped Noah get 4th in MVP voting in 2014 as the Bulls won 48 games, without Rose.

You’re the one who is wildly inconsistent. You say we should call Thibbs a bum because he hasn’t won a championship as a head coach. The best player he’s ever coached is a 22 year old Rose who shot poorly in the clutch in the ECF.

If you look at coaches who win championships, they usually have great players. Phil coached Jordan, Shaq, and Kobe. Then you say all of Thinbs’s success is due to Rose. The Timberwolves made the playoffs for the first time since 2004 with Thibbs. The Bulls reached the ECF for the first time since 1998 with Thibbs. The Knicks reached the ECF for the first time since 2000 with Thibbs, and they were massive underdogs against the Celtics and were winning that series before Tatum got injured.

[Sixers in 4]

You fire someone when you have an idea of what you're looking for.
You don't fire someone if you don't have a clear plan of what to do next.

Especially when Thibs is a top coach. Yes, he has his flaws but unless the Knicks pull a rabbit out of their hat this looks like a lateral move at best.

[druggas]

You fire someone when you have an idea of what you're looking for.
You don't fire someone if you don't have a clear plan of what to do next.

Especially when Thibs is a top coach. Yes, he has his flaws but unless the Knicks pull a rabbit out of their hat this looks like a lateral move at best.

They would be lucky for a lateral move. This is a step backwards move.

[Optimus_Steel]

The more that time passes the more likely Isiah Thomas is brought back to NY....

[ArksNetsSince99]

Phil Jackson, Isiah Thomas, or Mike Woodson?

All three still available

[jkvonny]

The more that time passes the more likely Isiah Thomas is brought back to NY....

They might as well at this point.

[-Luke-]

The more that time passes the more likely Isiah Thomas is brought back to NY....

The more likely Isiah becomes, the more desperate they become and the more likely they are to hire one of us RealGM users. Time is on our side, brothers!

[cgf]

It's strange...seemingly many on this board thought that Thibs should have been fired, even after the playoffs run.

And many made fun of Thibs for certain decisions (ie bench, minutes, offensive scheme, defensive scheme, etc)

On top of that, plenty also stated the Knicks would never win a championship with and will leave guys like Brunson injured (just like Rose)...

Yet so many are now suddenly up in arms that he was fired.

I like Thibs. He's a good coach. He's dedicated. But anyone who watched the Knicks day in and day out deep down knew this was the right decision.

Now the team has to make the right hire and roster moves to get over the hump.

Not everyone lol. Thibs had shown he could do everything people said he couldn’t, even if he kept things frustratingly basic in the regular season while trying to force chemistry by keeping the rotation short.

Just like I thought we could’ve won it all last season had Julius never got hurt…and we either kept Grimes or pursued Caruso instead of Burks/bogey…I still think that another year and another major minute rotation guy could’ve put us in great shape to win it all with Thibs at the helm. He schooled Mazulla and was keeping up in the adjustment battle with Carlisle…we just couldn’t hit our FTs and the dual bigs didn’t have enough time to gel.

But this FO has earned the benefit of the doubt, so we’ll see how the new guy does. I do think Thibs was upgradeable…but not by a lot of guys.

[cgf]

But do you remember the love affair Thibs had with Burkes, while Quick was never given an early chance to develop?

You mean when IQ played 20mpg as a rookie? Or was that when he played 23mpg through his sophomore slump.

I stand corrected.

Thibs totally loved MJ Burks more than he should’ve…but he did a good job of building up IQ, Grimes, and then Deuce as well. Thibs just sucks with airheads like Reddish or goofballs like Wiggins.

That’s why I think our kids this year just weren’t as ready to chip in as rookies as IQ, Grimes, or RJ…except for McCullar (maybe) but he was hurt for longer than Mitch. Thibs would have loved for Dadiet to give us good, smart minutes…but the kid couldn’t hit a shot or keep from fouling, yet.

[NyKnicks1714]

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a nets guy being the voice of reason wasn’t on my bingo card

They definitely have a plan...it's just a really lousy plan, and some of the names we're seeing are ridiculous. Finch, Udoka...alright that makes sense. Can't hurt to request an interview even if it's unlikely, and getting either of them as a replacement for Thibs would be a win.

But Jason Kidd, Luke Walton, Mike Brown? If you overachieve in the playoffs, fire your coach, and then give serious consideration to Mike Brown, something ain't right.

stop being duped by these reports, i can almost guarantee it won’t be mike brown or luke walton

This didn't age well

[jkvonny]

They definitely have a plan...it's just a really lousy plan, and some of the names we're seeing are ridiculous. Finch, Udoka...alright that makes sense. Can't hurt to request an interview even if it's unlikely, and getting either of them as a replacement for Thibs would be a win.

But Jason Kidd, Luke Walton, Mike Brown? If you overachieve in the playoffs, fire your coach, and then give serious consideration to Mike Brown, something ain't right.

stop being duped by these reports, i can almost guarantee it won’t be mike brown or luke walton

This didn't age well