I think we have reached a point where scoring guards who are not all star level don't have a lot of value anymore.

[pipfan]

I hope this is true for Coby, and he takes the extension this summer (I highly doubt he will). He's a good player and seems like a great kid, but he's not worth $30+ million

[ShouldaPaidBG]

Yes, it's also why Zach Lavine at 50 million is potentially the worst asset in history.

To push that idea further, the Bulls had LaVine and DDR, yet struggled to get above .500.

To be fair, the Bulls in 2022 started out exceptional as they had the proper pieces around LaVine/DeMar in Caruso/Ball and finished 46-36. LaVine and Demar are different players than Sexton and Simons as they at least have size.

They barely have size. They both have short arms, to go along with 0 defensive IQ.

[ReggiesKnicks]

To push that idea further, the Bulls had LaVine and DDR, yet struggled to get above .500.

To be fair, the Bulls in 2022 started out exceptional as they had the proper pieces around LaVine/DeMar in Caruso/Ball and finished 46-36. LaVine and Demar are different players than Sexton and Simons as they at least have size.

They barely have size. They both have short arms, to go along with 0 defensive IQ.

Cool. And the team was one of the best teams in the NBA prior to injury and still won 46 games

[7seventynine9]

The young SGs will still get paid because bad teams need someone to score, there is a salary floor, and there's still some hope they improve.

Plus, it's been an ongoing trend for awhile now. Simons got the bag but the bag would have been bigger 10 years ago.

CJ McCollum made a lot of money being this guy.

[Crazy-Canuck]

There is 0 reason to say Tyrese Maxey is a good player at 25% of the cap and Sexton is a bad one at 12.5%, I actually prefer Sexton at their relative prices.
There is 0 reason to say Darius Garland is a good player at 25% of the cap and Reaves is a bad one at 9%, I actually prefer Reaves at their relative prices.

Offensive guards are needed and the better you are at it the more crucial you become, undersized bench scorers have always been part of finals teams.

24 Celtics had Pritchard
24 Mavs would've killed for Sexton instead of Hardy/THJ.
23 Heat had Herro.
22 Celtics had Brogdon, Warriors had Poole.

It's true that there is a place for it on a contender, but that place has always been as a 6th man. As a starter and as a high salaried player, I'm not sure it's ever happened.

If the guys you listed were making 30M per year and starting, there's almost a zero % any of those teams make the finals.

Brogdon might be the exception, i feel he's always been a decent defender.

[ShouldaPaidBG]

They barely have size. They both have short arms, to go along with 0 defensive IQ.

Cool. And the team was one of the best teams in the NBA prior to injury and still won 46 games

Trust me I know I watched every minute. They didn't perform well against good teams.

[Chi town]

IQ and Suggs got overpaid. Seems like Jalen Green did too.

Will someone pay Coby and Reeves 35M per?

Will those guys take shorter deals on higher pay or longer deals with less AAV but more overall money?

[Chuck Everett]

The young SGs will still get paid because bad teams need someone to score, there is a salary floor, and there's still some hope they improve.

Plus, it's been an ongoing trend for awhile now. Simons got the bag but the bag would have been bigger 10 years ago.

CJ McCollum made a lot of money being this guy.

McCollum is better than a lot of these other guys though. He was never just a scorer. He could also get assists/run your offense and he played well in the playoffs (at least before New Orleans).

[Shock Defeat]

This is why Jalen Green got dumped. He got that contract due to his youth and potential. But as a player he's overpaid.

[ReggiesKnicks]

They barely have size. They both have short arms, to go along with 0 defensive IQ.

Cool. And the team was one of the best teams in the NBA prior to injury and still won 46 games

Trust me I know I watched every minute. They didn't perform well against good teams.

They started out pretty well against them. I have them going 5-4 through mid-january against 49+ win teams

[jbk1234]

There is 0 reason to say Tyrese Maxey is a good player at 25% of the cap and Sexton is a bad one at 12.5%, I actually prefer Sexton at their relative prices.
There is 0 reason to say Darius Garland is a good player at 25% of the cap and Reaves is a bad one at 9%, I actually prefer Reaves at their relative prices.

Offensive guards are needed and the better you are at it the more crucial you become, undersized bench scorers have always been part of finals teams.

24 Celtics had Pritchard
24 Mavs would've killed for Sexton instead of Hardy/THJ.
23 Heat had Herro.
22 Celtics had Brogdon, Warriors had Poole.

Garland shouldn't be grouped in with this group at all. But even if you ignore his ability to force a rotation, passing acumen, basketball IQ, floor vision, and ability to play off ball with Mitchell, Reeves just turned down his extension offer. Fans don't think he's bad. They think he'll make more than Garland as soon as next summer.

As far as Sexton, his highest and best use has always been as a sixth man where he doesn't have to try to do those things that he's frankly not very good at. The question has always been whether he'll accept that both on the court and contractually. On his current deal, he shouldn't have had negative value so I wonder whether his expectations limited his market, he demanded a trade in a contract year, and/or whether Nurkic gets stretch waived or bought out.

[Special_Puppy]

Scoring guards are just limited point guards now

[tsherkin]

Scoring guards are just limited point guards now

That's what they've generally been across time: short guys without full-out PG skills but who can get buckets. Frequently shooters, but sometimes more just athletes who can attack the rim to one extent or another. It isn't really a new thing.

[Blame Rasho]

Scoring guards are just limited point guards now

That's what they've generally been across time: short guys without full-out PG skills but who can get buckets. Frequently shooters, but sometimes more just athletes who can attack the rim to one extent or another. It isn't really a new thing.

They are called point guards and not pass guards.

[Effigy]

Eh, it's all cyclical. We'll see when these guys start signing their next contract, like what does Simons get next year? What does Hero's next contract look like? I won't believe this until I see teams not give these guys ludicrous contracts.

[SkyBill40]

IQ and Suggs got overpaid. Seems like Jalen Green did too.

Will someone pay Coby and Reeves 35M per?

Will those guys take shorter deals on higher pay or longer deals with less AAV but more overall money?

Any team that even considers paying Reeves that figure should be evaluated for drug usage or take a sit down with the team shrink.

[tsherkin]

Scoring guards are just limited point guards now

That's what they've generally been across time: short guys without full-out PG skills but who can get buckets. Frequently shooters, but sometimes more just athletes who can attack the rim to one extent or another. It isn't really a new thing.

They are called point guards and not pass guards.

Joke notwithstanding, Russell Westbrook still holds the record, I believe, in box creation over a season. He might not have had much a sense of tempo control or finesse, but he can barrel into the lane like a monster even now, and pass out. And he has 5 seasons of 10+ apg on the books, including three APG titles, topping out at 11.7 one year in 36.4 mpg. He's probably not the guy to look at for someone who doesn't pass. He just had... questionable selection in tight games when he was with the Thunder, and no range to speak of. Kind of like a weird inversion of Chris Paul, I guess, heh.

[Blame Rasho]

I know I just love that meme…

[1993Playoffs]

Yeah, league is talented enough that pure scoring doesn't have as much value as in the past, this is undeniable. You're either bad or with multiple players on your roster already capable of scoring a lot if they're put in that position.

I don't think it applies to Austin Reaves though, he's more efficient as a scorer and playmaker than other guys mentioned, and regardless of this year's playoffs - he's proven in high-level play on a very good team (WCF in 2023 as a 3rd option).

If playoffs are counted It does apply to Austin Reaves imo.

[jowglenn]

It will be interesting to see what the Pacers do with Bennedict Mathurin - he's a score-first guard who is not all star level and it will be interesting to see how he's valued. He'll get a chance to start, probably, with Haliburton out (Nembhard shift to PG). He did prove very valuable in a few playoff games, bringing a scoring spurt as a guy who can just go get a bucket, but he doesn't really align well with the overall offense. He's a microwave plug off the bench.