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2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition)

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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1601 » by celtxman » Mon Jun 30, 2025 4:44 pm

WeLikeOurGuys wrote:If you're trading Simons just to bring back Al and Luke, then what's the actual plan? I love Horford — he's probably one of my favorite Celtics ever — and Luke is a great teammate and a dependable backup big. But given where the Celtics are right now, is bringing back two aging role players at the expense of a young, high-upside scorer really the right move?

Essentially, we’d be running it back without Jrue and KP. That might be fine if Horford or Kornet had any real upside left, but they don’t — they're solid, not game-changers. So what's the long-term value here?

It all depends on what you can get for Simons. But if they end up flipping him in a pure salary dump just to re-sign Luke and Al, I’ll be really disappointed.

I've been wondering about the plan since before they traded KP, especially now with the timing of that trade. Hartenstein got $30 million per. Now even a lesser player in Kessler is rumored to get $30 million per. Kornet $ 12-14 million, interest in Lopez rekindled. Getting a championship level big man back now feels like trying to put the toothpaste back into the tube.
Drastically lowering payroll and looking for a true big man in an impossible market are diametrically opposed. More than ever it feels like Brown could be gone.
Brad Stevens on fans who want the Celtics to tank: "I don’t think they’ll like me all that much then."
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1602 » by Bill Lumbergh » Mon Jun 30, 2025 4:45 pm

ddb wrote:I'm down with giving Emoni Bates a try. UFA. Bring him in, start him, and see what he can be.

Young Master Bates has not been good thus far. Ba dum, tiss.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1603 » by phincsfan » Mon Jun 30, 2025 4:45 pm

Shak_Celts wrote:
GoCeltics123 wrote:Simons to the Bucks
Kuz and assets to the Nets
Connaughton to the Celtics

Saves us 18 mil. Saves the Bucks money too and works in the trade machine

Why would WE do that? We could just dump him with the Nets and not give Simons to the bucks.


One more team ahead of the C's that will get us closer to a lottery pick. :D
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1604 » by djFan71 » Mon Jun 30, 2025 4:46 pm

Bill Lumbergh wrote:
165bows wrote:Simons to Milwaukee
Kuzma/asset to Philly
Oubre, Drummnd, Gordon to Boston

Really tough to find a decent Simons trade if and when they decide to get out of the repeater tax situation for the years following.

Can anyone help me out here? Are you in the repeater tax when you are over the tax for 3 of the last 4 years, in which case, to get out of it we would have to dip below the tax for not only this year, but one of the three following as well? So, any way you slice it, we'd have to be a below the tax team in at least one of Tatum's upcoming healthy years too, to escape repeater penalties?

You do need to be under 2 years to reset it like you said. Which was my hangup originally - why duck if you also have to be under for the year Tatum's back? There's still some logic to that. I've come around to the thinking that you can't duck twice if you don't duck once. :) Basically, if stuff happens in 26-27 and you find yourself willing/able to duck the tax then, if you haven't ducked it in 25-26, you missed an opportunity.

So, if you can duck this year without losing long term assets, you might as well. It gives you more options. If Tatum and the team are rolling in 26-27, you don't HAVE to duck. But, it gives you the option to if they're not.

I think it boils down to if you see Simons as a long term asset or not vs how much you gain/lost in picks to convert some combo of him/Niang/Hauser into enough savings to duck it.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1605 » by jmr07019 » Mon Jun 30, 2025 4:46 pm

Larry_Russell wrote:
jmr07019 wrote:
Bill Lumbergh wrote:I agree with the premise, but the White contract is not bad. You just can't have two supermax players and build out a proper roster. To me, it's the Brown contract that's got to go.


We just did have two max guys and won the title.

What do you think OKC will do? Should they trade JDub and Chet if they ask for max contracts?



And now we can't do it anymore. We were almost sort of grandfathered into being able to do that.


I think you will see other teams do what the Celtics did. Go into the second apron for 2 seasons then shed salary to get under the second apron. I don’t think you will see teams avoid it altogether.

OKC has Chet and JDub on the cheap next year (they make 20 mil combined) but they are both FA in summer 2026. Hartenstein and Dort have team options in 2026. I anticipate them having two max player in the 26-27 season. Can’t see them dumping both Chet and J Dub
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1606 » by Memokerobi » Mon Jun 30, 2025 4:49 pm

I really have no idea what we’ll do in FA. Simons trade seems inevitable but besides that, no clue
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1607 » by cloverleaf » Mon Jun 30, 2025 4:53 pm

djFan71 wrote:
Bill Lumbergh wrote:
165bows wrote:Simons to Milwaukee
Kuzma/asset to Philly
Oubre, Drummnd, Gordon to Boston

Really tough to find a decent Simons trade if and when they decide to get out of the repeater tax situation for the years following.

Can anyone help me out here? Are you in the repeater tax when you are over the tax for 3 of the last 4 years, in which case, to get out of it we would have to dip below the tax for not only this year, but one of the three following as well? So, any way you slice it, we'd have to be a below the tax team in at least one of Tatum's upcoming healthy years too, to escape repeater penalties?

You do need to be under 2 years to reset it like you said. Which was my hangup originally - why duck if you also have to be under for the year Tatum's back? There's still some logic to that. I've come around to the thinking that you can't duck twice if you don't duck once. :) Basically, if stuff happens in 26-27 and you find yourself willing/able to duck the tax then, if you haven't ducked it in 25-26, you missed an opportunity.

So, if you can duck this year without losing long term assets, you might as well. It gives you more options. If Tatum and the team are rolling in 26-27, you don't HAVE to duck. But, it gives you the option to if they're not.

I think it boils down to if you see Simons as a long term asset or not vs how much you gain/lost in picks to convert some combo of him/Niang/Hauser into enough savings to duck it.


"Duck Duck Go".
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1608 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Jun 30, 2025 4:59 pm

I expect, if nothing else, they'll combine the Holiday/Porzingis trades into one big deal to generate a TPE:

BOS gives: Jrue, KP. the 2nd they sent ATL
BOS gets: Simons, Niang, 2 POR 2nds, the 2nd they got from ATL

By staying under the 2nd apron they can aggregate. They are sending out more total money than taking back so hard capped at 2nd apron instead of 1st. Porzingis outgoing money is enough to fit both Simons and Niang. That means Jrue's outgoing money is totally freed up for a $32.4M TPE to use next year.

Looking ahead to next year, as of right now with 9 players signed they're $31.4M below the tax line, $40.3M below the 1st apron, $53.4M below the 2nd apron. Assuming they generate that TPE like I expect, I have no concern about them being able to acquire a big man. They can full MLE sign someone, S&T for someone making more than MLE, trade Hauser or maybe even Pritchard on a good value deal for positional reallocation to the front court.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1609 » by tbceltics34 » Mon Jun 30, 2025 5:09 pm

My thing is, and why I'm so against trading Simons just to bring back Luke and Al, is the simple fact of bringing those two back, what exactly does that do for the team?

I get it, we really only have Queta as a big man on the roster, so Al and Luke would fill the void, but for what reason? You would be locking in, two big men, both with no upside, and who really will just drive the Celtics roster to mediocrity, when we all know this team is not winning a title next season.

I know the team still wants to compete and they will with the likes of Jaylen, White, PP, and perhaps Simons if he stays (I hope he does). My thought process is, and I am not sure how money works and even if we can do this, but ship out Niang, possibly Hauser if needed, and sign two cheap/younger free agent big men who may have some upside. Who knows, maybe you strike gold and hit on one of the big men, so why not give those minutes to some potential younger/undervalued big men and see what can happen.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1610 » by Hal14 » Mon Jun 30, 2025 5:21 pm

Keep him in Boston

Read on Twitter


Imagine teams trying to stop the Jays and Simons.

Imagine how good Simons will be with the spacing (and far less defensive attention) he'd have in Boston..

Probably the toughest stretch of the season last year for Portland where they faced some really tough teams, Simons went *off*, averaging 25 PPG over 8 games.

Image
download comments images

Portland went 3-5 in that stretch, which really isn't that bad, considering how bad their roster was overall and the level of competition they were facing.

And the efficiency was crazy in some of these games. 14/21 FG, 8/12 from 3, 36 pts vs Detroit, which had a really good defense last year.
1/11/24 The birth of a new Hal. From now on being less combative, avoiding confrontation - like Switzerland :)
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1611 » by djFan71 » Mon Jun 30, 2025 5:22 pm

tbceltics34 wrote:My thing is, and why I'm so against trading Simons just to bring back Luke and Al, is the simple fact of bringing those two back, what exactly does that do for the team?

I get it, we really only have Queta as a big man on the roster, so Al and Luke would fill the void, but for what reason? You would be locking in, two big men, both with no upside, and who really will just drive the Celtics roster to mediocrity, when we all know this team is not winning a title next season.

I know the team still wants to compete and they will with the likes of Jaylen, White, PP, and perhaps Simons if he stays (I hope he does). My thought process is, and I am not sure how money works and even if we can do this, but ship out Niang, possibly Hauser if needed, and sign two cheap/younger free agent big men who may have some upside. Who knows, maybe you strike gold and hit on one of the big men, so why not give those minutes to some potential younger/undervalued big men and see what can happen.

I think Simons is basically a tax or no tax issue, not a Luke or no Luke issue.

You can keep Luke and Simons and just not duck the tax. LIke you said Niang out gives you enough. I think it's unlikely that you find a young/cheap center that gives you near what Luke does for the next 3 years, but it's definitely possible.

Luke will be a valuable center for the life of his next contract - you're paying for most likely his best 3 years. Either as a low-end starter or top-tier reserve. That's absolutely worth $8-10M / year. Plus his team chemistry, and how well he plays with Tatum, that's a no-brainer to me. Any decent center we're going to get is going to cost that or more.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1612 » by fallguy » Mon Jun 30, 2025 5:24 pm

Hal14 wrote:Keep him in Boston

Read on Twitter


Imagine teams trying to stop the Jays and Simons.

Imagine how good Simons will be with the spacing (and far less defensive attention) he'd have in Boston..


Paint a picture of how they keep him. Including his next contract. And what it means for the rest of the roster.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1613 » by chrisab123 » Mon Jun 30, 2025 5:25 pm

Hal14 wrote:Keep him in Boston

Read on Twitter


Imagine teams trying to stop the Jays and Simons.

Imagine how good Simons will be with the spacing (and far less defensive attention) he'd have in Boston..


Dude is going to get cooked defensively.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1614 » by Larry_Russell » Mon Jun 30, 2025 5:27 pm

GoCeltics123 wrote:
Read on Twitter



Thats a steal.

Now they need to give him to us please.
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2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1615 » by jfs1000d » Mon Jun 30, 2025 5:27 pm

tbceltics34 wrote:My thing is, and why I'm so against trading Simons just to bring back Luke and Al, is the simple fact of bringing those two back, what exactly does that do for the team?

I get it, we really only have Queta as a big man on the roster, so Al and Luke would fill the void, but for what reason? You would be locking in, two big men, both with no upside, and who really will just drive the Celtics roster to mediocrity, when we all know this team is not winning a title next season.

I know the team still wants to compete and they will with the likes of Jaylen, White, PP, and perhaps Simons if he stays (I hope he does). My thought process is, and I am not sure how money works and even if we can do this, but ship out Niang, possibly Hauser if needed, and sign two cheap/younger free agent big men who may have some upside. Who knows, maybe you strike gold and hit on one of the big men, so why not give those minutes to some potential younger/undervalued big men and see what can happen.

Think 2026. Luke and AI as part of the team in 2026-27. If they don't project as an option, then whats the point?


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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1616 » by phincsfan » Mon Jun 30, 2025 5:28 pm

Hal14 wrote:Keep him in Boston

Read on Twitter


Imagine teams trying to stop the Jays and Simons.

Imagine how good Simons will be with the spacing (and far less defensive attention) he'd have in Boston..


If Stevens thinks he found a potential piece to go along with the Jays than I guess you gotta trust him.

They saw him in person at the Garden score 21 and 30.

8th best scoring against the C's in his career at 16.3 ppg.

I do like speedy guards. :D
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1617 » by cloverleaf » Mon Jun 30, 2025 5:31 pm

fallguy wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Keep him in Boston

Read on Twitter


Imagine teams trying to stop the Jays and Simons.

Imagine how good Simons will be with the spacing (and far less defensive attention) he'd have in Boston..


Paint a picture of how they keep him. Including his next contract. And what it means for the rest of the roster.


But somehow he ended up with a .557 TS% on the year (compared to PP's .633).
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1618 » by jfs1000d » Mon Jun 30, 2025 5:33 pm

On Simons. Explain, How the team
Is going to resign him next year, get the correct amount of big men, and stay under the seocond apron?

Simons or Hauser/Niang has to go.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1619 » by Larry_Russell » Mon Jun 30, 2025 5:33 pm

Hal14 wrote:Keep him in Boston

Read on Twitter


Imagine teams trying to stop the Jays and Simons.

Imagine how good Simons will be with the spacing (and far less defensive attention) he'd have in Boston..

Probably the toughest stretch of the season last year for Portland where they faced some really tough teams, Simons went *off*, averaging 25 PPG over 8 games.

Image
download comments images

Portland went 3-5 in that stretch, which really isn't that bad, considering how bad their roster was overall and the level of competition they were facing.

And the efficiency was crazy in some of these games. 14/21 FG, 8/12 from 3 vs Detroit, which had a really good defense last year.



Wow over 3 whole games!!!!!!

March per game
18.7 fga
42.7% fg
34.3% 3pta



February to March per game
17.5fga
42.7% fg
34.7% 3pt


Jan per game
15.7 fga
44.7% fg
45% 3pt


December per game
15.2 fga
44% fg
34.4% 3pt

Kid got hot in January...rest of the season he was below average at scoring the ball, below average shooting, below average rebounder, is undersized and a poor defender
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Re: 2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (The Fun Never Stops Edition) 

Post#1620 » by djFan71 » Mon Jun 30, 2025 5:35 pm

If you wanna be depressed, read the T&T thread on his trade value:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2466746

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