[Shams] Masai Ujiri is out as Vice Chairman and President of the Toronto Raptors - Part 2

[Kingsway_fan]

None of those sentences are true at all and it’s really not all that necessary to revise history in order to trash Shapiro.

It was reported at the time that the Jays were looking at Shapiro, Dan Duquette and Ken Williams for the position and Shapiro was the most respected of that group at that time (and certainly considered the most analytically inclined).

Here is the initial reaction to Shapiro being brought up (the first thing you’ll notice is the overwhelming praise for the idea from this fanbase, the next thing you’ll notice is my prediction that AA would not be down with him): viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1404510

All of those sentences are true. Shapiro led a team in the pathetic AL Central to over a decade of mediocrity before we "poached" him. He was always a **** baseball executives. Being analytically-inclined means **** all if you aren't getting results.

His mediocre resume predictably translated to a decade of mediocrity in Toronto.

It's okay to criticize Masai for being bad the last four years because he objectively was, but Shapiro has spent most of his twenty-five year career mismanaging sports teams.

Shapiro inherited an old team with a one year window and no prospects in the upper minors (Vlad was 16 years old) and yet if the Jays make the playoffs this season (currently holding a spot) then they would have been a playoff team in half of Shapiro's time here. In baseball, that's not a mediocre run. Are they a mediocre front office? That's a more reasonable take, but results-wise, that hasn't been the case.

You have a TOP FIVE PAYROLL... you SHOULD BE in the playoffs 80 percent or better..

[Yeezus_]

All of those sentences are true. Shapiro led a team in the pathetic AL Central to over a decade of mediocrity before we "poached" him. He was always a **** baseball executives. Being analytically-inclined means **** all if you aren't getting results.

His mediocre resume predictably translated to a decade of mediocrity in Toronto.

It's okay to criticize Masai for being bad the last four years because he objectively was, but Shapiro has spent most of his twenty-five year career mismanaging sports teams.

Shapiro inherited an old team with a one year window and no prospects in the upper minors (Vlad was 16 years old) and yet if the Jays make the playoffs this season (currently holding a spot) then they would have been a playoff team in half of Shapiro's time here. In baseball, that's not a mediocre run. Are they a mediocre front office? That's a more reasonable take, but results-wise, that hasn't been the case.

You have a TOP FIVE PAYROLL... you SHOULD BE in the playoffs 80 percent or better..

Not only that but we’re using wildcard losses as a justification to be a playoff team

[RapsFanInOhio]

Under Masai, this team has been steadfast about bringing in only self-motivated, good locker room guys. At face value, that seems all well and good, but there's some downside to it. Fact is, there will always be talented players out there who will be a little bit of a headcase, selfish and/or need a constant kick in the ass. By ignoring those players, the pool of possibilities can actually get quite smaller and you run the risk of missing out on buy-low opportunities or allowing perfection to be the enemy of great.

Under the new regime, it will be interesting to see if they take on more risk. Organizations like Miami, San Antonio and Golden State haven't been afraid to take on a few special cases. One of the things about having a strong, good culture is that it can compel risky players to up their game.

I'm not saying lower our standards completely. But looking at a case like Ben Simmons, maybe it's worth trying more to rehabilitate broken talents once in awhile in the name of talent acquisition.

Did the Kawhi trade not happen? That’s about as big of a risk as you can take.

[-MetA4-]

You have a TOP FIVE PAYROLL... you SHOULD BE in the playoffs 80 percent or better..

The Jays have had a Top 5 payroll twice out of the past 5 seasons. It has NOT been a consistent Top 5 payroll. They were 11th in payroll just a season ago, but lets conveniently leave those facts out.

They have a Top 5 payroll this year and are about to play the team with the #2 payroll (the Yankees) for first place in the AL East. They have also won 8 out of the last 10 series they have played.

It could actually be a lot worse: they could have the #7 payroll (Atlanta Braves) and be sitting at 7-games under .500 hehehe. Anyone wanna remind me who runs that team?

[MavCarter]

You have a TOP FIVE PAYROLL... you SHOULD BE in the playoffs 80 percent or better..

The Jays have had a Top 5 payroll twice out of the past 5 seasons. It has NOT been a consistent Top 5 payroll. They were 11th in payroll just a season ago, but lets conveniently leave those facts out.

They have a Top 5 payroll this year and are about to play the team with the #2 payroll (the Yankees) for first place in the AL East. They have also won 8 out of the last 10 series they have played.

It could actually be a lot worse: they could have the #7 payroll (Atlanta Braves) and be sitting at 7-games under .500 hehehe. Anyone wanna remind me who runs that team?

Brave of you to ask whos running the braves when AA won a championship 3 years ago. Shapiro/Atkins are creeping up on a decade running the jays and have won a big fat total of 0 playoff games

[WuTang_CMB]

You have a TOP FIVE PAYROLL... you SHOULD BE in the playoffs 80 percent or better..

The Jays have had a Top 5 payroll twice out of the past 5 seasons. It has NOT been a consistent Top 5 payroll. They were 11th in payroll just a season ago, but lets conveniently leave those facts out.

They have a Top 5 payroll this year and are about to play the team with the #2 payroll (the Yankees) for first place in the AL East. They have also won 8 out of the last 10 series they have played.

It could actually be a lot worse: they could have the #7 payroll (Atlanta Braves) and be sitting at 7-games under .500 hehehe. Anyone wanna remind me who runs that team?

Brave of you to ask whos running the braves when AA won a championship 3 years ago. Shapiro/Atkins are creeping up on a decade running the jays and have won a big fat total of 0 playoff games

"he inherited the team"
clown show this thread

[HiJiNX]

Blue Jays are currently the only above .500 team in the league with a negative run differential.

Anyway, if we are using how Rogers has run the baseball side of their portfolio as evidence for what they’ll do on the basketball side of things, what we can expect is a team that is a 6 to 10 seed every season and doesn’t have a real chance at winning when it counts. It’ll be a boring team of dry personality lunch pail guys that do the little things well but can’t do the things that can tilt a playoff series. But at least the merch and live game experience will be better.

[Airmiess]

Looks like Rogers didn't let Masai do his job. Put pressure on him to compete and make win-now moves.

tWo wanted Masai fired, and are now defending Ed Rogers.

In a strange round-about way, we'll see them in full support on upcoming win-now trades instead of a rebuild.

You know you can walk and chew gum at the same time ?
if the outcome you're looking for aligns with both directions..

Idk about defending Ed Rogers, but ijs to everything else.

[Mascot]

Someone has to pay Vladdies salary. So if Masai gets a job somewhere else, MLSE only have to make up the difference to Masai.

Aka someone signs him for $10 million then MLSE only has to pay him $5 million if the rumoured $15 million was right.

[MavCarter]

Shapiro was hired not because of his baseball resume but because he oversaw the progressive field renovations in cleveland. Cleveland fans were rejoicing when he left. Just incase anyone thinks they'll hire someone purely based on basketball btw

[Michael Bradley]

All of those sentences are true. Shapiro led a team in the pathetic AL Central to over a decade of mediocrity before we "poached" him. He was always a **** baseball executives. Being analytically-inclined means **** all if you aren't getting results.

His mediocre resume predictably translated to a decade of mediocrity in Toronto.

It's okay to criticize Masai for being bad the last four years because he objectively was, but Shapiro has spent most of his twenty-five year career mismanaging sports teams.

Shapiro inherited an old team with a one year window and no prospects in the upper minors (Vlad was 16 years old) and yet if the Jays make the playoffs this season (currently holding a spot) then they would have been a playoff team in half of Shapiro's time here. In baseball, that's not a mediocre run. Are they a mediocre front office? That's a more reasonable take, but results-wise, that hasn't been the case.

You have a TOP FIVE PAYROLL... you SHOULD BE in the playoffs 80 percent or better..

The Jays have only had a top 5 payroll once, and that's this season (assuming they don't sell at the deadline). The best teams Atkins built during this run were 2021-22, and those teams ranked 11th and 10th in payroll respectively. Yes, payroll has definitely helped the Jays, if anything it's the only reason they've been as good as they have been since player development has lacked, but it's not a guarantee that it will lead to making the playoffs, much less succeeding once there.

Making the playoffs in MLB (even with the expanded format) is still very difficult. Certainly more difficult than the NBA. You have teams like the Dodgers and Yankees (and recently the Astros) making it every year, but it's not the norm. How many times do you think the Mets, Cubs, Phillies, and Red Sox have made the playoffs over the last decade? Those are big market teams that (usually) spend big, yet since 2016 it's been Jays (4), Cubs (4), Red Sox (4), Phillies (3) and Mets (3). If you cut it to just since 2020 then it's Jays (3), Phillies (3), Mets (2), Cubs (1), Red Sox (1).

You'll get no argument from me that they have stunk once they've gotten to the playoffs (0-6), but as others have said, it's typically a crap shoot. In 2024 you had the best teams in each league (Yankees/Dodgers) meet in the World Series, and the year before that you had 2 Wild Card teams (Rangers/Diamondbacks). It's the opposite in the NBA where you actually have to be good to advance, but in MLB, you just have to get in and you probably have just as good a chance as everyone else who made it. The Dodgers literally have 1 title in 5 years, and that was also their only World Series appearance during that span. Same with the Yankees, except they have 0 titles. It's a crapshoot.

Regardless, I'm not trying to stick up for the Jays front office, they are expandable as they come, but people suggesting it's been a failure of a run, especially the last 5 years, are being way too dramatic.

[douggood]

Someone has to pay Vladdies salary. So if Masai gets a job somewhere else, MLSE only have to make up the difference to Masai.

Aka someone signs him for $10 million then MLSE only has to pay him $5 million if the rumoured $15 million was right.

depends if there is an offset clause in his contract. and if the goal was for him to get a job somewhere else, you fire him asap to increase chances of him getting another job, not wait till all jobs are full.

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

[basketballto]

None of those sentences are true at all and it’s really not all that necessary to revise history in order to trash Shapiro.

It was reported at the time that the Jays were looking at Shapiro, Dan Duquette and Ken Williams for the position and Shapiro was the most respected of that group at that time (and certainly considered the most analytically inclined).

Here is the initial reaction to Shapiro being brought up (the first thing you’ll notice is the overwhelming praise for the idea from this fanbase, the next thing you’ll notice is my prediction that AA would not be down with him): viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1404510

All of those sentences are true. Shapiro led a team in the pathetic AL Central to over a decade of mediocrity before we "poached" him. He was always a **** baseball executives. Being analytically-inclined means **** all if you aren't getting results.

His mediocre resume predictably translated to a decade of mediocrity in Toronto.

It's okay to criticize Masai for being bad the last four years because he objectively was, but Shapiro has spent most of his twenty-five year career mismanaging sports teams.

All lies. Shapiro's reputation was strong in baseball at the time of his hiring, he was a sought after executive, and Cleveland was run far better than the Jays were (and may other teams) during Shapiro's tenure (2001-2015).

It's revisionist history to suggest differently.

Shapiro was never a sought after exec. He was a D level exec from a mid market team. No one was after him.. Pretending that anyone was after him and claiming revisionist history is something someone would say if they weren't around.

Brian Colangleo had a better rep then Shapiro.

[Randle McMurphy]

Read on Twitter

This is all you ever want from an owner in pro sports.

[Steelo Green]

I fell to my knees in an Iqbal Foods

[Randle McMurphy]

In a sense, I compare Ed to Christian Bale's Batman at the end of TDK. He's hated for removing Masai and must lay low because of it, but in reality, he's really the hero that is protecting us. He's paying unprecedented amounts of money on the Jays to keep them a winner and he's stepping in when no one else would to implement change on a directionless Raptors franchise.

Because Ed's the hero Toronto deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.

[Randle McMurphy]

Shapiro was never a sought after exec. He was a D level exec from a mid market team. No one was after him.. Pretending that anyone was after him and claiming revisionist history is something someone would say if they weren't around.

False on every count.

Brian Colangleo had a better rep then Shapiro.

True, which then again reinforces the point that reputation doesn't matter too much.

[Duffman100]

In a sense, I compare Ed to Christian Bale's Batman at the end of TDK. He's hated for removing Masai and must lay low because of it, but in reality, he's really the hero that is protecting us. He's paying unprecedented amounts of money on the Jays to keep them a winner and he's stepping in when no one else would to implement change on a directionless Raptors franchise.

Because Ed's the hero Toronto deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.

Now you're just trolling / inciting. That's enough.

[ill-Will03]

I fell to my knees in an Iqbal Foods

lol the one in Ajax?