Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Jon Horst the Wizard

[soxperry]

hes wrong btw, Prince and GTJ did not take vet mins they took 120% raises

GTJ definitely took a 20% raise, but it doesn’t look like Prince did.

this whole thing definitely needs answering. it makes a huge difference in our ability to match a Rollins offer (should someone make an offer).

let's say we use the full MLE on someone and then re sign Sims for 3M. That leaves about 4.5M for Rollins and other teams are going to know that number precisely. i'd feel a lot better knowing that number is closer to 6.

[MickeyDavis]

I don't see Rollins getting an offer that would cause a problem. He's not that good.

[Shaffty]

hes wrong btw, Prince and GTJ did not take vet mins they took 120% raises

GTJ definitely took a 20% raise, but it doesn’t look like Prince did.

from nehm

Finally, Prince's deal is for the veteran minimum, but because it is for multiple seasons, it doesn't count for the cap-friendly $2.3 million like one-year vet minimum deals do. Instead, Prince is on the books at $3,303,770 for 2025-26 as a nine-year veteran, and for next year at an estimated $3.89 million if he picks up his player option.

[emunney]

None of these guys were "big" free agents but they all could have signed with a number of other teams. As much as we get frustrated, this is an overall well run organization and players like playing here.

And Giannis is still here.

[old skool]

A few random thoughts:

1. The 2 year deals with a player option in year 2 seems to often make up for the player signing a team friendly contract in the first year. And while the thought of losing a player for nothing in an opt out is discouraging, the chance of going back on the free agent market next summer provides a ton of incentive for the player to work hard this season. Having vets in contract seasons is not a bad thing.

2. Horst has done a good job of getting the Bucks to be a younger, quicker team, even though a year ago the Bucks seemed to have few paths to do so. A lot of the team's current flexibility stems from the oft panned Middleton trade.

3. I think there is value in developing a semblance of stability by retaining rotation players like Trent, KPJ, and Prince. And hopefully Rollins and Sims. It takes time for players to learn how to play with each other, so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

4. The off-season roster often includes players that Horst can trade usefully mid-season. Last year Delon Wright was dealt for Sims and Beauchamp was dealt for KPJ. That provides some hope that the Prince signing does not necessarily bring a full repeat of last season.

Thank you to all the posters providing insight on contract details and CBA implications.

[El Pooch Grande]

Bucks still have the full MLE. By my calculations we could offer Ayton more than the Lakers could, correct? That has to be the move here. Really think he’d resurrect his career here next to Giannis.

[RogerMurdock]

I know all these moves are boring to everyone, especially considering it's just running it back with a team that got bumped in the first round minus Brook, but the signings are totally fine. Horst might not be able to pull anything else off, but he's gotten the "easy" signings done. It's not like the front office just started to work on it on Monday. They've known what guys they could likely sign and for how much. And they have almost certainly been trying to make other deals at the same time. We'll just have to see if they can accomplish anything.

If Horst can't sign anyone or trade for anyone of impact from here on forward, it won't be for a lack of trying. Remember, the team doesn't have much room to maneuver.

[ajb905]

hes wrong btw, Prince and GTJ did not take vet mins they took 120% raises

GTJ definitely took a 20% raise, but it doesn’t look like Prince did.

from nehm

Finally, Prince's deal is for the veteran minimum, but because it is for multiple seasons, it doesn't count for the cap-friendly $2.3 million like one-year vet minimum deals do. Instead, Prince is on the books at $3,303,770 for 2025-26 as a nine-year veteran, and for next year at an estimated $3.89 million if he picks up his player option.

Very weird the need to give PO to Prince in that case.

[agiaco]

I know all these moves are boring to everyone, especially considering it's just running it back with a team that got bumped in the first round minus Brook, but the signings are totally fine. Horst might not be able to pull anything else off, but he's gotten the "easy" signings done. It's not like the front office just started to work on it on Monday. They've known what guys they could likely sign and for how much. And they have almost certainly been trying to make other deals at the same time. We'll just have to see if they can accomplish anything.

If Horst can't sign anyone or trade for anyone of impact from here on forward, it won't be for a lack of trying. Remember, the team doesn't have much room to maneuver.

Not sure there’s too many upset about “boring” moves; the last 36 hours of free agency has been a pleasant surprise to say the least.

Retaining Bobby on another team-friendly contract and then bringing back the other top two free agents for a bargain is superb. Pretty lukewarm about the Prince signing, but he’s a rotation guy for the minimum and can still provide in limited minutes.

Horst is known to make a splash, so I don’t doubt he’s got something else up his sleeve. The dream as another poster stated would be grabbing an impact big like Ayton (yeah he’s a bit down the last few years) and moving Kuzma++ for a starting wing.

[jschligs]

GTJ definitely took a 20% raise, but it doesn’t look like Prince did.

from nehm

Finally, Prince's deal is for the veteran minimum, but because it is for multiple seasons, it doesn't count for the cap-friendly $2.3 million like one-year vet minimum deals do. Instead, Prince is on the books at $3,303,770 for 2025-26 as a nine-year veteran, and for next year at an estimated $3.89 million if he picks up his player option.

Very weird the need to give PO to Prince in that case.

The Klutch connection and GTJ was the reason.

[RiotPunch]

On vacation but pretty thrilled with how little it took to retain Bobby/KPJ/GTJ. Prince signing is annoying because of Doc.

[German Athens]

hes wrong btw, Prince and GTJ did not take vet mins they took 120% raises

GTJ definitely took a 20% raise, but it doesn’t look like Prince did.

from nehm

Finally, Prince's deal is for the veteran minimum, but because it is for multiple seasons, it doesn't count for the cap-friendly $2.3 million like one-year vet minimum deals do. Instead, Prince is on the books at $3,303,770 for 2025-26 as a nine-year veteran, and for next year at an estimated $3.89 million if he picks up his player option.

Okay, so that’s a normal min contract, but for two seasons, not a 20% raise.

I had the financial impact wrong, like Baddy Chuck pointed out (and you as well), about 2 year min salary impact.

I didn’t realize multi-year mins didn’t work the same way as single year mins. Not a big fan of prince, but we’ll probably be able to fit everything sans the tpe without stressing.

Thanks for the info.

[old skool]

I'm not sure that Ayton's size, talent and youth are enough to offset his unprofessional attitude and behavior. Portland let him go for nothing, which said a lot about his negative value. One report cited his "tardiness, tantrums and injuries" as reasons why the Blazers were willing to buy him out after appearing in only 95 games total the last tow seasons.

[Licensed to Il]

So far, so good.

Is the report of movement on a Pat trade the only substantial thing out there? Did anyone legit connect us to Ayton? What teams other than Minny still need to shed salary?

[Allanon23]

So far, so good.

Is the report of movement on a Pat trade the only substantial thing out there? Did anyone legit connect us to Ayton? What teams other than Minny still need to shed salary?

Eh, I wouldn't put too much stock in that Pat trade tweet. LegionHoops posts a lot of inaccurate info.

[El Pooch Grande]

So far, so good.

Is the report of movement on a Pat trade the only substantial thing out there? Did anyone legit connect us to Ayton? What teams other than Minny still need to shed salary?

Have seen things on X where Bobby Marks and Jake Fischer have connected us to Ayton, along with multiple unverified rumor-mongerers.

[tedbrogen]

hes wrong btw, Prince and GTJ did not take vet mins they took 120% raises

GTJ definitely took a 20% raise, but it doesn’t look like Prince did.

this whole thing definitely needs answering. it makes a huge difference in our ability to match a Rollins offer (should someone make an offer).

let's say we use the full MLE on someone and then re sign Sims for 3M. That leaves about 4.5M for Rollins and other teams are going to know that number precisely. i'd feel a lot better knowing that number is closer to 6.

Technically Bucks can match Rollins, go over the first apron, but then they just need to be under by the end of the season. In your scenario, they can instantly waive and stretch Pat to get back under if they can’t flip him for Carter’s smaller two year deal or pay the Nets $7M+ in cash to take him.

[soxperry]

Just looked up Horford's DLebron rating throughout the past 5 years. Dude has not fallen off at all. Dude could also fall off at any minute.

[tedbrogen]

hes wrong btw, Prince and GTJ did not take vet mins they took 120% raises

GTJ definitely took a 20% raise, but it doesn’t look like Prince did.

from nehm

Finally, Prince's deal is for the veteran minimum, but because it is for multiple seasons, it doesn't count for the cap-friendly $2.3 million like one-year vet minimum deals do. Instead, Prince is on the books at $3,303,770 for 2025-26 as a nine-year veteran, and for next year at an estimated $3.89 million if he picks up his player option.

He’s picking that up, unless Ham ends up with another team, his NBA career is over when this contract ends. He’s got two years to learn Chinese.

[soxperry]

GTJ definitely took a 20% raise, but it doesn’t look like Prince did.

this whole thing definitely needs answering. it makes a huge difference in our ability to match a Rollins offer (should someone make an offer).

let's say we use the full MLE on someone and then re sign Sims for 3M. That leaves about 4.5M for Rollins and other teams are going to know that number precisely. i'd feel a lot better knowing that number is closer to 6.

Technically Bucks can match Rollins, go over the first apron, but then they just need to be under by the end of the season. In your scenario, they can instantly waive and stretch Pat to get back under if they can’t flip him for Carter’s smaller two year deal or pay the Nets $7M+ in cash to take him.

Nice. That is reassuring