Moderators: montestewart, LyricalRico, nate33
Ed Wood wrote:It is surely true that we spend too much time having takes about what might come of basketball decisions and not enough reaffirming the essential wisdom of Socrates.
AFM wrote:payitforward wrote:Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, and Phaedo — on themes evoked by the trial
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/13726/13726-h/13726-h.htm
You probably went to high school with these guys
Ed Wood wrote:It is surely true that we spend too much time having takes about what might come of basketball decisions and not enough reaffirming the essential wisdom of Socrates.
leswizards wrote:payitforward wrote:leswizards wrote:I find it quite interesting that a few of the posters who were quite adamant a few days ago about how great this front office’s drafting has been are just as adamant that the best way to ensure that the wizards have one of the worst records in nba again is to play those players as many minutes as possible.
LOL...
I'm happy to have this discussion with you. Would it be ok, however, to keep it a discussion -- i.e. not to turn it into an argument?
What I'd like to hear from you is what YOU would do -- both now and, to the degree you think it's relevant, over the last 25 months -- since the new guys took over.
Is that a reasonable request?
It would be fair to answer, "I don't know. I'm not an expert." But such an answer might point to the possible conclusion that there is nothing to do but keep making the best draft picks we can until things start to turn around.
Alternatively, you might say "I'd have taken X instead of Bilal, Y instead of Sarr", etc....Or whatever...
Make sense? Is that a fair request?
I don’t remember what I would have done in the Bilal draft. In fact, I think I just gave the new front office the benefit of the doubt and I hoped for the best.
Last year (and if you are bored, you find posts where I was clearly high on Zach Edey), if I had the power and the prognosis power to predict where people would be drafted, I would have my three picks to try and get the 9, 12 and whatever highest pick that I could have gotten. I would have taken Edey, Nikola Topic, and the player who I would project to be the most likely to out produce his rookie contract. Not knowing where the third pick would be, I didn’t really put much thought into the third player. I did like Dalton knecht, but I doubt that the wizards three picks last season could be traded for the 9, 12 and 17. Wouldn’t have traded Deni. Would have traded Kuzma, but not knowing what I would’ve gotten in return, let’s defer his trade to when it actually happened.
Would have traded the wizards three picks this season for the 10, 24 and 25. I would have taken maluach, Clifford and Richardson.
If Edey can be one of most dominant centers of all time (which I believe he can be), if topic can stay healthy and be a dominant pg, if Deni can continue improving and be a reliable third of the big three, if maluach can play 12 mpg as backup pf against backup pf (in addition to 18 mpg as a center), the wizards would have a team that could already start winning this season, and could potentially make a run at the championship.
TheBlackCzar wrote:leswizards wrote:payitforward wrote:LOL...
I'm happy to have this discussion with you. Would it be ok, however, to keep it a discussion -- i.e. not to turn it into an argument?
What I'd like to hear from you is what YOU would do -- both now and, to the degree you think it's relevant, over the last 25 months -- since the new guys took over.
Is that a reasonable request?
It would be fair to answer, "I don't know. I'm not an expert." But such an answer might point to the possible conclusion that there is nothing to do but keep making the best draft picks we can until things start to turn around.
Alternatively, you might say "I'd have taken X instead of Bilal, Y instead of Sarr", etc....Or whatever...
Make sense? Is that a fair request?
I don’t remember what I would have done in the Bilal draft. In fact, I think I just gave the new front office the benefit of the doubt and I hoped for the best.
Last year (and if you are bored, you find posts where I was clearly high on Zach Edey), if I had the power and the prognosis power to predict where people would be drafted, I would have my three picks to try and get the 9, 12 and whatever highest pick that I could have gotten. I would have taken Edey, Nikola Topic, and the player who I would project to be the most likely to out produce his rookie contract. Not knowing where the third pick would be, I didn’t really put much thought into the third player. I did like Dalton knecht, but I doubt that the wizards three picks last season could be traded for the 9, 12 and 17. Wouldn’t have traded Deni. Would have traded Kuzma, but not knowing what I would’ve gotten in return, let’s defer his trade to when it actually happened.
Would have traded the wizards three picks this season for the 10, 24 and 25. I would have taken maluach, Clifford and Richardson.
If Edey can be one of most dominant centers of all time (which I believe he can be), if topic can stay healthy and be a dominant pg, if Deni can continue improving and be a reliable third of the big three, if maluach can play 12 mpg as backup pf against backup pf (in addition to 18 mpg as a center), the wizards would have a team that could already start winning this season, and could potentially make a run at the championship.
Edey is a big slow dude, who gets stripped too often.... He's not going to even be an All Star much less this ATG nonsense you're carrying on about....
Edey is at least 2-3 yrs older and more experienced than all of the Zards first round picks. Let’s see how they compare 3-4 yrs from now.leswizards wrote:Zach Edey was a starter on a playoff team and far out played any of the first round picks from this front office.
leswizards wrote:Zach Edey was a starter on a playoff team and far out played any of the first round picks from this front office.
DCZards wrote:Edey is at least 2-3 yrs older and more experienced than all of the Zards first round picks. Let’s see how they compare 3-4 yrs from now.leswizards wrote:Zach Edey was a starter on a playoff team and far out played any of the first round picks from this front office.
nate33 wrote:leswizards wrote:Zach Edey was a starter on a playoff team and far out played any of the first round picks from this front office.
Edey, like most plodding drop bigs, can post fine numbers in the regular season against bad teams, but when they face good teams in the playoffs with the personnel to space them out, they become unplayable.
Edey's on/off differential in the playoffs was -12.3. When he was on the court, his team got outscored by a whopping 25 points per 100 possessions because drop bigs don't work in the playoffs. (When JJJ played center and Edey was off the court, Memphis actually outscored OKC by 6 points per 100 possessions.)
leswizards wrote:payitforward wrote:leswizards wrote:I find it quite interesting that a few of the posters who were quite adamant a few days ago about how great this front office’s drafting has been are just as adamant that the best way to ensure that the wizards have one of the worst records in nba again is to play those players as many minutes as possible.
LOL...
I'm happy to have this discussion with you. Would it be ok, however, to keep it a discussion -- i.e. not to turn it into an argument?
What I'd like to hear from you is what YOU would do -- both now and, to the degree you think it's relevant, over the last 25 months -- since the new guys took over.
Is that a reasonable request?
It would be fair to answer, "I don't know. I'm not an expert." But such an answer might point to the possible conclusion that there is nothing to do but keep making the best draft picks we can until things start to turn around.
Alternatively, you might say "I'd have taken X instead of Bilal, Y instead of Sarr", etc....Or whatever...
Make sense? Is that a fair request?
I don’t remember what I would have done in the Bilal draft. In fact, I think I just gave the new front office the benefit of the doubt and I hoped for the best.
Last year (and if you are bored, you find posts where I was clearly high on Zach Edey), if I had the power and the prognosis power to predict where people would be drafted, I would have my three picks to try and get the 9, 12 and whatever highest pick that I could have gotten. I would have taken Edey, Nikola Topic, and the player who I would project to be the most likely to out produce his rookie contract. Not knowing where the third pick would be, I didn’t really put much thought into the third player. I did like Dalton knecht, but I doubt that the wizards three picks last season could be traded for the 9, 12 and 17. Wouldn’t have traded Deni. Would have traded Kuzma, but not knowing what I would’ve gotten in return, let’s defer his trade to when it actually happened.
Would have traded the wizards three picks this season for the 10, 24 and 25. I would have taken maluach, Clifford and Richardson.
If Edey can be one of most dominant centers of all time (which I believe he can be), if topic can stay healthy and be a dominant pg, if Deni can continue improving and be a reliable third of the big three, if maluach can play 12 mpg as backup pf against backup pf (in addition to 18 mpg as a center), the wizards would have a team that could already start winning this season, and could potentially make a run at the championship.
leswizards wrote:DCZards wrote:Edey is at least 2-3 yrs older and more experienced than all of the Zards first round picks. Let’s see how they compare 3-4 yrs from now.leswizards wrote:Zach Edey was a starter on a playoff team and far out played any of the first round picks from this front office.
Actually, that is false. He is less experienced. He didn’t start playing basketball until his sophomore year in high school. And he is from Canada where the quality of basketball is less in America. So he actually has a lot of room to grow as he gets more experienced.
nate33 wrote:leswizards wrote:DCZards wrote:Edey is at least 2-3 yrs older and more experienced than all of the Zards first round picks. Let’s see how they compare 3-4 yrs from now.
Actually, that is false. He is less experienced. He didn’t start playing basketball until his sophomore year in high school. And he is from Canada where the quality of basketball is less in America. So he actually has a lot of room to grow as he gets more experienced.
Is this really the hill you're going to die on? You are just going to totally ignore the fact that Edey is 23 while Sarr is 20 and Carrington is 19? That fact has no meaning in your analysis?
leswizards wrote:nate33 wrote:leswizards wrote:
Actually, that is false. He is less experienced. He didn’t start playing basketball until his sophomore year in high school. And he is from Canada where the quality of basketball is less in America. So he actually has a lot of room to grow as he gets more experienced.
Is this really the hill you're going to die on? You are just going to totally ignore the fact that Edey is 23 while Sarr is 20 and Carrington is 19? That fact has no meaning in your analysis?
It is not a hill to die on, it is a fact. Eddy has 8 years of experience. I can’t say how many years of experience Bub has, but it has probably been 13 years. And the quality of bub’s opponents has been far superior to Edey’s.
leswizards wrote:leswizards wrote:payitforward wrote:LOL...
I'm happy to have this discussion with you. Would it be ok, however, to keep it a discussion -- i.e. not to turn it into an argument?
What I'd like to hear from you is what YOU would do -- both now and, to the degree you think it's relevant, over the last 25 months -- since the new guys took over.
Is that a reasonable request?
It would be fair to answer, "I don't know. I'm not an expert." But such an answer might point to the possible conclusion that there is nothing to do but keep making the best draft picks we can until things start to turn around.
Alternatively, you might say "I'd have taken X instead of Bilal, Y instead of Sarr", etc....Or whatever...
Make sense? Is that a fair request?
I don’t remember what I would have done in the Bilal draft. In fact, I think I just gave the new front office the benefit of the doubt and I hoped for the best.
Last year (and if you are bored, you find posts where I was clearly high on Zach Edey), if I had the power and the prognosis power to predict where people would be drafted, I would have my three picks to try and get the 9, 12 and whatever highest pick that I could have gotten. I would have taken Edey, Nikola Topic, and the player who I would project to be the most likely to out produce his rookie contract. Not knowing where the third pick would be, I didn’t really put much thought into the third player. I did like Dalton knecht, but I doubt that the wizards three picks last season could be traded for the 9, 12 and 17. Wouldn’t have traded Deni. Would have traded Kuzma, but not knowing what I would’ve gotten in return, let’s defer his trade to when it actually happened.
Would have traded the wizards three picks this season for the 10, 24 and 25. I would have taken maluach, Clifford and Richardson.
If Edey can be one of most dominant centers of all time (which I believe he can be), if topic can stay healthy and be a dominant pg, if Deni can continue improving and be a reliable third of the big three, if maluach can play 12 mpg as backup pf against backup pf (in addition to 18 mpg as a center), the wizards would have a team that could already start winning this season, and could potentially make a run at the championship.
I was going to edited this, but since people have already responded to it, I will quote it say that I have decided that the three draft picks this season had a rough equivalency to the 10th and 11th. So, I’ve decided that while still drafting maluach, I would have drafted coward rather than Clifford and Richardson.
nate33 wrote:leswizards wrote:nate33 wrote:
Is this really the hill you're going to die on? You are just going to totally ignore the fact that Edey is 23 while Sarr is 20 and Carrington is 19? That fact has no meaning in your analysis?
It is not a hill to die on, it is a fact. Eddy has 8 years of experience. I can’t say how many years of experience Bub has, but it has probably been 13 years. And the quality of bub’s opponents has been far superior to Edey’s.
It's not just experience. It's size, strength, and the coordination that results after growing into your body. It's also 15 years of watching drop bigs fail defensively in the playoffs in the pace and space era.
leswizards wrote:nate33 wrote:leswizards wrote:
It is not a hill to die on, it is a fact. Eddy has 8 years of experience. I can’t say how many years of experience Bub has, but it has probably been 13 years. And the quality of bub’s opponents has been far superior to Edey’s.
It's not just experience. It's size, strength, and the coordination that results after growing into your body. It's also 15 years of watching drop bigs fail defensively in the playoffs in the pace and space era.
Okay, you say it is 15 years of watching bigs fail: name me a single nba player in the history of the nba, who posted ws48 as comparatively low as Bilal’s his first 2 seasons, and went on to become a good player.
nate33 wrote:leswizards wrote:nate33 wrote:It's not just experience. It's size, strength, and the coordination that results after growing into your body. It's also 15 years of watching drop bigs fail defensively in the playoffs in the pace and space era.
Okay, you say it is 15 years of watching bigs fail: name me a single nba player in the history of the nba, who posted ws48 as comparatively low as Bilal’s his first 2 seasons, and went on to become a good player.
WS/48 is a terrible metric for this type of comparison because it relies heavily on how good one's teammates are. It basically apportions team wins to each player based on their stats. If you are a young role player, it's not necessarily your fault if you have lousy teammates who don't win games.
I'll say that 20-year-old Bilal Coulibaby looks a lot like 20-year-old Jaylen Brown in nearly every other metric like PER, BPM and VORP. He is an equivalent scorer and a much better passer who posted better defensive stats with fewer fouls. And passing is a basketball-IQ indicator that generally does a good job of projecting future performance.
Thanks, Mr TM. I appreciate you, sir.payitforward wrote:Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:...
I'm off to Google Socrates and the Socratic Method.
Who was he, and why was he considered wise?
While I'm at it, I'm going to look up Herodotas and Josephus.
Socrates was Plato's teacher in ancient Greece. Plato's dialogues are presented as conversations between S and various interlocutors. You'll love them, Ken. The ones concerning his last days and death especially but also The Symposium, which is about love. Great stuff.
Herodotus was the first Greek historian.
Josephus comes along 600 years later. A fascinating figure to say the least! A Romanized Jewish historian of the destruction of Judea.