Fisher: Raptors are still shopping RJ Barrett and Immanuel Quickley

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

IQ is going to be one of the Raps most impressive players this year and he will be well worth the money.

His all-around numbers as a Raptor are good. He's just suffered some injuries, and he was held out during a tank season.

I hope you’re right, I just don’t see much defensively.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Yup.

I am expecting 45+ wins next year IF we add a reliable backup C. Anything less will be a disappointment

Adding a C will reduce CMB's minutes from 25 to < 15 a night. Currently he can be in the game for both Poeltl and Scottie. Think the Raps just need a 2.5nd string centre that really only sees time if 1 of Jak, Barnes, CMB is injured.

Well 1st we don't even know CMB's impact. Most rookies are negative.

Make these guys earn their playing time...internal competition is a good thing. Let the best rise to the top.

And we WILL have injuries. We have extra wings...move one to fill the hole at C. It's a very simple concept.

He'll be coming off the bench. This isn't supposed to be a 50 win team. It's still going to be mostly young. No point in adding a guaranteed minute eater at back-up C that would take those minutes away from CMB, Scottie and Mogbo.

2.5 level C is exactly it.

[raps95]

There’s the most desired markets, and there’s everyone else. We gotta pay a higher premium than Minny, det, Utah, Cleveland, charlotte? I’m saying there’s no good excuse for a bad decision.

As maddening as it is I think the answer to that is actually yes. In no rational word should we ever be outclassed in negotiating against other teams for players with the exception of New York, LA, maybe Chicago, and maybe one or two other niche teams with some unique appeal (Miami, say).

The fact of the matter is though that is not the case. The players do not, in the net, ascribe more “value” to playing here than pretty much any other place. Yes, we have our “white Vegas” reputation and people come here in the summer for caribana. There are many stories of players claiming to looove Toronto. But along with that we have the fake tax paranoia that is still out there, the customs complaints, no espn, yada yada yada.

All of that together results in the fact that you can’t name a single high profile player that came here, or a single high level player of our own that signed for anything less than a fantastic deal for them. And if you can name one or two that I’m forgetting, I guarantee that you can’t name more than that one or two.

[Tripod]

Adding a C will reduce CMB's minutes from 25 to < 15 a night. Currently he can be in the game for both Poeltl and Scottie. Think the Raps just need a 2.5nd string centre that really only sees time if 1 of Jak, Barnes, CMB is injured.

Well 1st we don't even know CMB's impact. Most rookies are negative.

Make these guys earn their playing time...internal competition is a good thing. Let the best rise to the top.

And we WILL have injuries. We have extra wings...move one to fill the hole at C. It's a very simple concept.

He'll be coming off the bench. This isn't supposed to be a 50 win team. It's still going to be mostly young. No point in adding a guaranteed minute eater at back-up C that would take those minutes away from CMB, Scottie and Mogbo.

2.5 level C is exactly it.

Agree to disagree.

Isn't supposed to be a 50 win team....why not? Why not strive for better? Why not us?

CMB, Barnes and Mogbo are not C's...that's why. They can be situational C's. But as stated, there is a reason Draymond isn't a full time C and gets paired with guys like Looney. It's taxing on the body and leads to injuries.

We HAVE extra wings that are not going to play due to too much depth. It 100% makes sense to slide that extra depth over to fill the gaping hole.

Then when we WANT to go small for the 2nd unit we can. But we can also stay big if we WANT. And when Yak misses games, we are not FORCED to play small on both units. It's all about flexibility and a better rounded team.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Well 1st we don't even know CMB's impact. Most rookies are negative.

Make these guys earn their playing time...internal competition is a good thing. Let the best rise to the top.

And we WILL have injuries. We have extra wings...move one to fill the hole at C. It's a very simple concept.

He'll be coming off the bench. This isn't supposed to be a 50 win team. It's still going to be mostly young. No point in adding a guaranteed minute eater at back-up C that would take those minutes away from CMB, Scottie and Mogbo.

2.5 level C is exactly it.

Agree to disagree.

Isn't supposed to be a 50 win team....why not? Why not strive for better? Why not us?

CMB, Barnes and Mogbo are not C's...that's why. They can be situational C's. But as stated, there is a reason Draymond isn't a full time C and gets paired with guys like Looney. It's taxing on the body and leads to injuries.

We HAVE extra wings that are not going to play due to too much depth. It 100% makes sense to slide that extra depth over to fill the gaping hole.

Then when we WANT to go small for the 2nd unit we can. But we can also stay big if we WANT. And when Yak misses games, we are not FORCED to play small on both units. It's all about flexibility and a better rounded team.

2.5 C can get you that. It's a Thomas Bryant-level player. We don't want... Clint Capela eating into both Jak and our small ball units.

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

no1 wants these players. Not very good and overpaid from everyone's favorite Masai Ujiri. He was just handing out money like no other team would

[Yallbecrazy]

no1 wants these players. Not very good and overpaid from everyone's favorite Masai Ujiri. He was just handing out money like no other team would

If the Raptors get out to a hot start and RJ+ Quick are putting up good bulk numbers their values around the league will skyrocket. I think we keep Quick and RJ might be shopped for a better fit or we just ride with him as well.

[GLF]

Y’all need to read Grange’s piece that just came out. What I got from it is we are definitely just going to sign a minimum guy to close out the roster. So Tripod is just going to have to get over it lol. Also it seems like we were never serious about any of the trades that our name was attached to and RJ’s name was just being thrown in their by others because they felt he made the most sense to get traded. But Grange never confirmed if RJ’s name was in those trades or not (he most likely was though because him, IQ and Jakob are the only valuable contracts we have that we would also realistically trade for the right price).

Grange pretty much said Jakob was never being offered in the Durant deal and we were never going to give up the boat load of picks it would take to get Bane or Derrick White. And pretty much once we kept the 9th pick the likelihood of a trade happening went down significantly. All these things are exactly what I always felt was the case. Pretty much if any significant trade happens before the start of the season it would have come out the blue and would be unexpected. So it’s not impossible but it’s unlikely.

Oh the biggest one, Masai is the one who didn’t want to pay and keep Pascal and Bobby did. So Bobby and Masai didn’t agree on everything, for better or for worse. So if Bobby gets that President role it won’t necessarily be more of the same, again for better or for worse.

[DG88]

It appears any of the trade chatter involved the 9th pick and either RJ or Quickley to get a high impact player. Nothing materialized so we'll have to wait to the trade deadline most likely

[Gavin_TDThree]

I think IQ is going to surprise a lot of us this year. I think the injuries (and very obvious tanking) soured a lot of fans on IQ. I suspect he will come back as a positive impact player for us. RJ on the other hand, I think he's going to be end up being an overpaid 4th option on our team which in turn leads me to believe he's going to be traded. Just a matter of time

[anotherhomer]

I think IQ is going to surprise a lot of us this year. I think the injuries (and very obvious tanking) soured a lot of fans on IQ. I suspect he will come back as a positive impact player for us. RJ on the other hand, I think he's going to be end up being an overpaid 4th option on our team which in turn leads me to believe he's going to be traded. Just a matter of time

that's the hope...IQ ability to hit above the break 3s is signficant

[Tha Cynic]

I think IQ is going to surprise a lot of us this year. I think the injuries (and very obvious tanking) soured a lot of fans on IQ. I suspect he will come back as a positive impact player for us. RJ on the other hand, I think he's going to be end up being an overpaid 4th option on our team which in turn leads me to believe he's going to be traded. Just a matter of time

I don’t like how he runs the team as PG, but IQ was good when he played as more of a 2 guard, so not sure where that narrative even comes from.

His defense will be a lot better this season imo with the Raptors focusing on that from the start. I expect him and Ingram to go on scoring runs and make this team fun to watch.

[OakleyDokely]

This idea that IQ is way overpaid or a bad contract is a myth. I guess it's a problem if he can't stay healthy, but it's not an issue if he plays and performs like he has over his career.

I sorted NBA salaries for this coming season and IQ is 26th among guards. The guy just above him is Jalen Green and the just guy below him is Jrue Holiday. Among PG's, he's 16th in the league. The very elite guards cost between 45-60M now, with solid starting caliber players in the 25-35 range. IQ' is going to fall down these rankings each year as well because his contract is flat.

[_MidNight_]

IQ would have not gotten more than 25M a year in this current cap climate btw.

Crazy how much a difference a year makes once all of the teams realize the severity of the new CBA.

Which leaves RJ. Personally I'd keep RJ if we can get him back for 25-27M a year, but I'm pretty sure he'll be gunning for 35M a year.

[Raptorfan2012]

Its strange IQ went from being the main piece coming back from OG to now being a toxic asset (in the eyes of some fans here). The honest thing is a lot of posters sour on players once they get their extension (see Barnes as well). In the perfect world, fans here want to see stars get paid vet mins all around.

Seriously though, I am excited to see what IQ can bring next season. He started off with injuries last year, then the team decided to tank and give up essentially for the second half of the season. I want to see what IQ, Ingram, and Scottie can do for a full season.

[StopitLeo]

I think IQ is going to surprise a lot of us this year. I think the injuries (and very obvious tanking) soured a lot of fans on IQ. I suspect he will come back as a positive impact player for us. RJ on the other hand, I think he's going to be end up being an overpaid 4th option on our team which in turn leads me to believe he's going to be traded. Just a matter of time

that's the hope...IQ ability to hit above the break 3s is signficant

With a true primary scoring option in Ingram it focusses what Quickley needs to do. All Quickley needs to do is hit catch & shoot 3s and play solid defense.

[tsherkin]

I think IQ is going to surprise a lot of us this year. I think the injuries (and very obvious tanking) soured a lot of fans on IQ. I suspect he will come back as a positive impact player for us. RJ on the other hand, I think he's going to be end up being an overpaid 4th option on our team which in turn leads me to believe he's going to be traded. Just a matter of time

that's the hope...IQ ability to hit above the break 3s is signficant

Yeah, I mean on spacing alone, he has utility, and he was passing reasonably well for us when he was healthy this season. He's obviously not an ideal lead guard, but whatever, we aren't in an ideal position. He is a decent mid/high-teens scorer as a supporting option who can tweak a D with his gravity. That's not nothing.

The problem with Ayton is he's not a good basketball player and doesn't seem to have much passion for the game.

Well, that's half-right. He doesn't have passion for the game and it leads to him being lazy. But his scoring ability and rebounding definitely put the lie to that first part. His offense is pretty strong when he's matched up with a quality PnR playmaker, that much is clear.

Reality is we have yet to see how good this team can be. When we flicked that defensive switch in Jan, we completely changed as a team. It became our identity. And both of our picks have that same identity. We are going to be a pain in the ass to play against next year for teams. Just relax. We added arguably the top FA...we just did it at the deadline.

Will be interesting to see how much of that can carry over. There was a lot of tanking going on and we had a light schedule, particularly over that back third of the season, so I'm still a little fuzzy on how much I believe in that defense... but we should be more than trash, which is a good start. Anything beyond that is just gravy.

RJ...honestly...I keep him and make him a 6th man. In games Ingram or Barnes miss, his scoring will be needed. And playing with "defensive" guys like Shead, CMB, etc.. Hopefully he ups that side of his game.

RJ, unless CMB can do some of this at the NBA level, is basically our only rim pressure right now. He isn't efficient and he's a disaster at the line, but he's the only guy who consistently threatens by getting all the way to the rim, and we need that.

Dick seems like the odd man out that doesn't match our defense identity but still has lots of upside teams might want.

Yeah. Unless he can get a little tougher on D and learn how to shoot when someone is closing out on him, his upside is limited. But we don't know if he can do that, so I'd say he's still worth a look until the deadline to see what he's doing right now, before we make any hasty decisions.

But in saying that, maybe Ochai is the one if they think Walter can replace what he does and is cheaper in a year and has more upside.

Ochai's earlier efficacy is suggestive that he's probably the better option as a roleplayer, unless Walter can get noticeably better from 3... but again, like Dick (and Shead), he's worth a look right now at least early on in the season to see if he's showing us anything different before we think about moving him. The rooks need at least a little run to see if they have improved at all, I'd imagine.

[HumbleRen]

no1 wants these players. Not very good and overpaid from everyone's favorite Masai Ujiri. He was just handing out money like no other team would

We have maybe 2 really valuable assets.

The rest are on rookie deals. IQ, RJ and Ingram are negative assets,

While paying for a team that cost as much as contenders.

Genius retooling from Masai.

[Merit]

IQ signing was a joke from the start. Knicks balked at the contract demands he floated, and so smartly traded him. We did one better and paid him more than his rumoured asking price.

Just because you hope he’s a $32 million player, doesn’t mean you can wish it or pay it into existence.

The player/contract is a net negative. We’re going to have to bite the bullet on something.

Everyone is so sure of themselves until the real games start.

[Merit]

no1 wants these players. Not very good and overpaid from everyone's favorite Masai Ujiri. He was just handing out money like no other team would

We have maybe 2 really valuable assets.

The rest are on rookie deals. IQ, RJ and Ingram are negative assets,

While paying for a team that cost as much as contenders.

Genius retooling from Masai.

LOL. Yeah we definitely disagree.