Best one-year PF Peaks compared

[FrodoBaggins]

was surprised at how many times McHale blocked Hakeem. Kevin was a very good defender; don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

He was a great defender for a PF in his prime. NBA all-defensive 1st team 3 years in a row (85-86 to 87-88) in a league that those 3 years also had very good to great defensive PFs like Buck Williams, Charles Oakley, Larry Smith, Hotrod Williams, Rick Mahorn, Maurice Lucas, and a couple others. McHale was also all-D 2nd team 3 other seasons (82-83, 88-89, and 89-90).

In looking for a one-year peak PF look no further than McHale in 86-87. All-D 1st team, all-NBA 1st team, 26 pts/g, 61% on 2s, 10 reb/g, 2 bs/g. He's the only PF until the 2010s (Giannis Antetokounmpo) to score 25+ pts/g shooting that high on 2s while also making the all-D team.

Damn, when you put it like that... And to think McHale was doing that primarily from the post in the half-court setting. A game tailor-made for the playoffs. No wonder his numbers were better in the postseason.

[penbeast0]

The problem like always, is no criteria is defined.

He did specify 1 year peaks rather than just "best PF" so it opens the discussion to guys like McHale. Tatum and LeBron (if there's a year he played mainly the 4) are interesting because the game is so different today and they both are really traditional 3s.

[Jaivl]

45% Duncan, 35% KG, 20% Giannis, something like that.

[jdzimme3]

1 year, I think I take giannis. Any more than 1 and I take duncan.

[IlikeSHAIguys]

Duncan

[BusywithBball]

Mchale was a great player indeed. I think the notion he was one blackhole is unfair.

[kcktiny]

Mchale was a great player indeed. I think the notion he was one blackhole is unfair.

On the contrary. He is exactly the kind of player you want to be a black hole if he's on your team.

From 1981-82 to 1990-91, a full decade, and the seasons he played 2000+ minutes, he scored 19.7 pts/g (762 games) shooting 57% on 2s (when the average PF shot just 50% on 2s) committing just 2.1 TO/g.

He was very efficient on offense, and as such is the last person you would want passing the ball away.

[One_and_Done]

It's Duncan by a mile.

The real debate begins at #2, Giannis vs KG.

[FrodoBaggins]

Not a one-year qualifier, but cool to compare multi-year statistical peaks:

[ReggiesKnicks]

Not a one-year qualifier, but cool to compare multi-year statistical peaks:

This compares scoring peaks, not sure anything beyond that though.

[PistolPeteJR]

2013 LeBron?

Interesting, and valid, inclusion!

Okay but what's the real case for Lebron being the power forward on the 2013 Heat? Yes, I know bballref lists him there but we do all realize that they list Udonis Haslem as the small forward in those lineups, right?

That's without even getting into Shane Battier's defensive role when he's on the floor. He was specifically there to do power forward grunt work, freeing Lebron to roam, and do that cool Miami perimeter inverted rim protection (Lebron and Wade swooping into the paint while Bosh and Haslem/Battier defend the matchups).

In the playoffs, Bosh and Haslem started. Birdman and Battier also played rotation minutes. In the regular season, Bosh/Haslem is the starting frontcourt as well, though there were stretches where Battier or Mike Miller were the starter. I'm fine with Lebron being named the power forward in those specific lineups, if you want.

Sure, they started, but how much did Miami employ 2/3 of Bosh, Birdman, UD, Anthony, on the court at the same time? I don’t think it was the majority of the time, strictly from memory?

[eminence]

Interesting, and valid, inclusion!

Okay but what's the real case for Lebron being the power forward on the 2013 Heat? Yes, I know bballref lists him there but we do all realize that they list Udonis Haslem as the small forward in those lineups, right?

That's without even getting into Shane Battier's defensive role when he's on the floor. He was specifically there to do power forward grunt work, freeing Lebron to roam, and do that cool Miami perimeter inverted rim protection (Lebron and Wade swooping into the paint while Bosh and Haslem/Battier defend the matchups).

In the playoffs, Bosh and Haslem started. Birdman and Battier also played rotation minutes. In the regular season, Bosh/Haslem is the starting frontcourt as well, though there were stretches where Battier or Mike Miller were the starter. I'm fine with Lebron being named the power forward in those specific lineups, if you want.

Sure, they started, but how much did Miami employ 2/3 of Bosh, Birdman, UD, Anthony, on the court at the same time? I don’t think it was the majority of the time, strictly from memory?

Not checking for Anthony, but WOWY for Bosh/Andersen/Haslem in the '13 POs.

Bosh solo, 345 minutes, +2.6 Net
Bosh+Haslem, 304 minutes, +6.1 Net
Andersen solo, 234 minutes, +21.1 Net
Haslem solo, 47 minutes, -19.8 Net
Andersen + Bosh, 41 minutes, +5.7 Net
None on, 25 minutes, +15.3 Net

So I'd say the 92% BBref estimate is probably high (Haslem is not a SF), but Bron was still playing PF a majority of the time (in the Bosh/Andersen solo minutes).

[PistolPeteJR]

Okay but what's the real case for Lebron being the power forward on the 2013 Heat? Yes, I know bballref lists him there but we do all realize that they list Udonis Haslem as the small forward in those lineups, right?

That's without even getting into Shane Battier's defensive role when he's on the floor. He was specifically there to do power forward grunt work, freeing Lebron to roam, and do that cool Miami perimeter inverted rim protection (Lebron and Wade swooping into the paint while Bosh and Haslem/Battier defend the matchups).

In the playoffs, Bosh and Haslem started. Birdman and Battier also played rotation minutes. In the regular season, Bosh/Haslem is the starting frontcourt as well, though there were stretches where Battier or Mike Miller were the starter. I'm fine with Lebron being named the power forward in those specific lineups, if you want.

Sure, they started, but how much did Miami employ 2/3 of Bosh, Birdman, UD, Anthony, on the court at the same time? I don’t think it was the majority of the time, strictly from memory?

Not checking for Anthony, but WOWY for Bosh/Andersen/Haslem in the '13 POs.

Bosh solo, 345 minutes, +2.6 Net
Bosh+Haslem, 304 minutes, +6.1 Net
Andersen solo, 234 minutes, +21.1 Net
Haslem solo, 47 minutes, -19.8 Net
Andersen + Bosh, 41 minutes, +5.7 Net
None on, 25 minutes, +15.3 Net

So I'd say the 92% BBref estimate is probably high (Haslem is not a SF), but Bron was still playing PF a majority of the time (in the Bosh/Andersen solo minutes).

Yeah that’s what I thought. Those two-big lineups for Miami weren’t the best. Starting two bigs didn’t mean much. They often settled into one-big lineups with James playing that 4-spot.

[IlikeSHAIguys]

It's Duncan by a mile.

The real debate begins at #2, Giannis vs KG.

i don't think it can be "duncan by a mile" with your whole the old players suck thing lol

[One_and_Done]

It's Duncan by a mile.

The real debate begins at #2, Giannis vs KG.

i don't think it can be "duncan by a mile" with your whole the old players suck thing lol

Some players are good in any era, and others survive the era shift better than others.

[penbeast0]

And your normal criteria is, "Did he shoot 3's?" Duncan didn't, so as a modern PF he wouldn't be optimized. Fortunately, he played more than half his career at center so you would be looking at him as a modern 5, not a 4, and yes, he'd be a perennial MVP candidate like a healthy Giannis.

[One_and_Done]

No, I base my rating on how good the player is. In the case of a guard, 3pt shooting is a huge differentiator. You pretty much can’t start for a good team today as a guard if you don’t have 3pt shooting. How you play in today’s superior league is frankly the most important thing, but even if it were not the 3pt shot has been around for most of NBA history, meaning it could have been optimally deployed at most points in NBA history to provide huge advantages.

On the other hand, big men provide the most value as defensive anchors who can also contribute on offense. While it wouldn’t be a bad thing if Duncan had a 3pt shot, he doesn’t need it to play today.

Some players would be better today, compared to when they played (e.g. Ray Allen), some would be about the same or slightly worse (e.g. Kobe), others would be unplayable (e.g. Rodman, Cousy, etc).