Semi-OT: Bucks waived Lillard to sign Turner

[DusterBuster]

My god they are playing Dame roughly 22 million a year for the next 5 years? Is that right?

I'm not sure about "when" he gets that paid, but the 22mil cap hold will be on their books for the next 5 years.

Stretching players is a really punitive option that you should really only use in a "break glass in case of emergency" situation. They clearly felt that urgency with Giannis, but long term it's absolutely terrible for your books. That's almost 15% of their salary cap tied up in nothing for the next 5 years. 22mil is basically the going rate per year for a starting NBA player these days.

Blazers experienced this with Nicholson, stretched him in 2017, didn't finally fall off the books until 2024... thanks Neil... granted, that deal was pennies compared to what the Bucks just did.

I'll reserve judgement until the FA period is largely over, but I kinda think the Bucks are really **** up their summer. My thoughts of Dame aside, the "get" of them stealing Turner away from a conference rival is overlooking the fact that they've now screwed up their books for a long while, Turner is an upgrade but not massively so from Lopez (age big consideration even if talent is only just a mild improvement), but then their replacement for Dame so far is... Gary Harris. A g-leaguer would be a better fit there than Harris, he's been garbage for awhile now.

The moves are more "flashy" than substantive to keep the Bucks in contention or actually improve them. And they're spending a lot to do it.

Pardon my ignorance but if another team picks him up are THEY now on the hook for the salary owed or is that still on Milwaukee? So in essence we could pay him vet min and Milwaukee is still paying the 22mil? My god that's not a bad gig at all lol

I believe the instances where a team gets some of their cap hold off the books are for buyouts? On a buyout then whatever the player signs for comes off the amount owed by the team that bought out the player.

For a stretch and waive, that’s there is there regardless of what the player signs a new deal of… I think.

I can very much be wrong on that.

[m0ng0]

I'm not sure about "when" he gets that paid, but the 22mil cap hold will be on their books for the next 5 years.

Stretching players is a really punitive option that you should really only use in a "break glass in case of emergency" situation. They clearly felt that urgency with Giannis, but long term it's absolutely terrible for your books. That's almost 15% of their salary cap tied up in nothing for the next 5 years. 22mil is basically the going rate per year for a starting NBA player these days.

Blazers experienced this with Nicholson, stretched him in 2017, didn't finally fall off the books until 2024... thanks Neil... granted, that deal was pennies compared to what the Bucks just did.

I'll reserve judgement until the FA period is largely over, but I kinda think the Bucks are really **** up their summer. My thoughts of Dame aside, the "get" of them stealing Turner away from a conference rival is overlooking the fact that they've now screwed up their books for a long while, Turner is an upgrade but not massively so from Lopez (age big consideration even if talent is only just a mild improvement), but then their replacement for Dame so far is... Gary Harris. A g-leaguer would be a better fit there than Harris, he's been garbage for awhile now.

The moves are more "flashy" than substantive to keep the Bucks in contention or actually improve them. And they're spending a lot to do it.

Pardon my ignorance but if another team picks him up are THEY now on the hook for the salary owed or is that still on Milwaukee? So in essence we could pay him vet min and Milwaukee is still paying the 22mil? My god that's not a bad gig at all lol

I believe the instances where a team gets some of their cap hold off the books are for buyouts? On a buyout then whatever the player signs for comes off the amount owed by the team that bought out the player.

For a stretch and waive, that’s there is there regardless of what the player signs a new deal of… I think.

I can very much be wrong on that.

Either the injury is much worse than we think or there were some serious problems going on we don't know about

[Dame Lizard]

Pardon my ignorance but if another team picks him up are THEY now on the hook for the salary owed or is that still on Milwaukee? So in essence we could pay him vet min and Milwaukee is still paying the 22mil? My god that's not a bad gig at all lol

I believe the instances where a team gets some of their cap hold off the books are for buyouts? On a buyout then whatever the player signs for comes off the amount owed by the team that bought out the player.

For a stretch and waive, that’s there is there regardless of what the player signs a new deal of… I think.

I can very much be wrong on that.

Either the injury is much worse than we think or there were some serious problems going on we don't know about

I think it's simply that Giannis didn't want a gap year where Milwaukee were idling while Dame recovered. Only for them to put their eggs in the "Dame is a good player still" basket when he's returned.

[DusterBuster]

Pardon my ignorance but if another team picks him up are THEY now on the hook for the salary owed or is that still on Milwaukee? So in essence we could pay him vet min and Milwaukee is still paying the 22mil? My god that's not a bad gig at all lol

I believe the instances where a team gets some of their cap hold off the books are for buyouts? On a buyout then whatever the player signs for comes off the amount owed by the team that bought out the player.

For a stretch and waive, that’s there is there regardless of what the player signs a new deal of… I think.

I can very much be wrong on that.

Either the injury is much worse than we think or there were some serious problems going on we don't know about

There’s no need for tinfoil hatting this one. I know you want to find every possible angle to **** on Lillard and think he’s an awful person, you’ve had that agenda for awhile now, but the reality is pretty clear here for what happened.

Bucks need to keep being aggressive to give the impression they want to stay competitive around Giannis. That clock is ticking louder and faster than ever. They were capped out and losing players in FA, so in order to get a big FA, they needed to do something drastic, this was the only realistic move.

Dame was untradeable on that current contract with his injury forcing him to be out a year. Dame didn’t particularly love his time in Milwaukee by all accounts - nothing major, just ultimately a bad fit and a hard adjustment for him being away from his family while he was going through a personal matter (divorce). So he was ready to move on sooner than later anyway.

The injury isn’t more serious than any other ACL, but it’s a long recovery. Bucks don’t have a year to sit on their hands with Giannis and some unprotected pick obligations coming to roost soon.

For the Bucks, their options were pretty limited to either this or sit on their hands and hope some vet min / g-league guys can fill the void for a year and that Giannis will be OK with that.

[The Sebastian Express]

Achilles. not ACL. ACL would be much, much preferable for Dame than an Achilles.

[Norm2953]

I wouldn't bet against Dame making it back and being a productive player.

I'm hoping he chooses Portland while he rehabs for he's the one FA that might choose Portland

[m0ng0]

I believe the instances where a team gets some of their cap hold off the books are for buyouts? On a buyout then whatever the player signs for comes off the amount owed by the team that bought out the player.

For a stretch and waive, that’s there is there regardless of what the player signs a new deal of… I think.

I can very much be wrong on that.

Either the injury is much worse than we think or there were some serious problems going on we don't know about

There’s no need for tinfoil hatting this one. I know you want to find every possible angle to **** on Lillard and think he’s an awful person, you’ve had that agenda for awhile now, but the reality is pretty clear here for what happened.

Bucks need to keep being aggressive to give the impression they want to stay competitive around Giannis. That clock is ticking louder and faster than ever. They were capped out and losing players in FA, so in order to get a big FA, they needed to do something drastic, this was the only realistic move.

Dame was untradeable on that current contract with his injury forcing him to be out a year. Dame didn’t particularly love his time in Milwaukee by all accounts - nothing major, just ultimately a bad fit and a hard adjustment for him being away from his family while he was going through a personal matter (divorce). So he was ready to move on sooner than later anyway.

The injury isn’t more serious than any other ACL, but it’s a long recovery. Bucks don’t have a year to sit on their hands with Giannis and some unprotected pick obligations coming to roost soon.

For the Bucks, their options were pretty limited to either this or sit on their hands and hope some vet min / g-league guys can fill the void for a year and that Giannis will be OK with that.

That's not fair at all, and honestly your not going to be better with Dame out than bringing in g league guy, why NOT sit on it for a year? This upcoming season is gone, they ain't breaking .500.... well it is the east. I've never wished Dame Ill, i just think he is not what we presents himself as. But to cut bait like that rings some bells for me. That's a HUGE amount of money.

[DusterBuster]

Either the injury is much worse than we think or there were some serious problems going on we don't know about

There’s no need for tinfoil hatting this one. I know you want to find every possible angle to **** on Lillard and think he’s an awful person, you’ve had that agenda for awhile now, but the reality is pretty clear here for what happened.

Bucks need to keep being aggressive to give the impression they want to stay competitive around Giannis. That clock is ticking louder and faster than ever. They were capped out and losing players in FA, so in order to get a big FA, they needed to do something drastic, this was the only realistic move.

Dame was untradeable on that current contract with his injury forcing him to be out a year. Dame didn’t particularly love his time in Milwaukee by all accounts - nothing major, just ultimately a bad fit and a hard adjustment for him being away from his family while he was going through a personal matter (divorce). So he was ready to move on sooner than later anyway.

The injury isn’t more serious than any other ACL, but it’s a long recovery. Bucks don’t have a year to sit on their hands with Giannis and some unprotected pick obligations coming to roost soon.

For the Bucks, their options were pretty limited to either this or sit on their hands and hope some vet min / g-league guys can fill the void for a year and that Giannis will be OK with that.

That's not fair at all, and honestly your not going to be better with Dame out than bringing in g league guy, why NOT sit on it for a year? This upcoming season is gone, they ain't breaking .500.... well it is the east. I've never wished Dame Ill, i just think he is not what we presents himself as. But to cut bait like that rings some bells for me. That's a HUGE amount of money.

I never said you wished him ill, just that you think he's not a good person - which is just another way of saying you think he's not what he presents himself as... something you have literally zero evidence to back up or proof from anyone who's ever been around and/or met him. It's a basely agenda you've pushed for years now for some weird reason.

[DusterBuster]

Achilles. not ACL. ACL would be much, much preferable for Dame than an Achilles.

Fair, I always conflate the two. Been instances of both for high level players this year iirc.

[The Sebastian Express]

Achilles. not ACL. ACL would be much, much preferable for Dame than an Achilles.

Fair, I always conflate the two. Been instances of both for high level players this year iirc.

It's completely understandable. ACLs used to be imo on the same degree as Achilles but the advances in surgery and repair are pretty big and it's no longer a death kneel to a career. Not ideal, but thankfully no longer on the level of an Achilles.

[Shem]

Does Dame want to return? Find out here.

Watch on YouTube

[Case2012]

People are acting like Dame should just fade away or latch onto some contender clearly don’t know who he is. The guy just put out a whole docuseries YESTERDAY about mentoring kids who are trying to make the league, he does a youth camp in Beaverton every summer and he's getting shade about his ability to be a mentor?

He still lives here, his family is rooted here, and everybody remembers he tried to pull that trade request back before the front office kicked him out the door. If Jody finally sells, I can absolutely picture Dame rehabbing in town this season and then re-signing the moment new ownership takes over. Money isn’t a factor, so why wouldn’t he finish the story where it started?

As for the rotation, let Scoot beat him out fair and square. If Scoot can’t outplay a 36 year old coming off an Achilles tear, maybe he’s a sixth man and you deal with that later. A backcourt of Dame and Jrue still gives you a closer and keeps the defense legit. I’m not saying build the whole roster around him again, just add him to what’s already here and let him do what he’s always done.. prove people wrong. Remember how everyone said he was cooked after the ab-surgery year, and then he dropped 32 a night on ridiculous efficiency? This is the same dude who bounced back from a life-threatening scare in three weeks. If anyone can pull off one more comeback in Rip City, it’s Dame Lillard.

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[zzaj]

Lillard’s game has always been predicated on explosion in the halfcourt. Take away the explosion and you take away the very thing upon which every skill he had was predicated.

I hope he gets back to 80, 90 percent of himself, but at his age with that injury and a year-ish off from competitive basketball? That’s a very tall order.

[DC_Melo]

Lillard’s game has always been predicated on explosion in the halfcourt. Take away the explosion and you take away the very thing upon which every skill he had was predicated.

I hope he gets back to 80, 90 percent of himself, but at his age with that injury and a year-ish off from competitive basketball? That’s a very tall order.

His ability to burst and change pace in the halfcourt did indeed make him the superstar he was, and it’s hard to see him getting back to where he was without it.

But the #1 thing his gameplay predicated around wasn’t explosion, it was his ability to stretch the floor. His explosiveness helped him maximize that ability, for sure, but his game is ultimately built around making the defense stretch itself and then probe for the weak points.

So I agree his explosiveness was a big deal and will hamper him when he comes back, but he still has the skillset and playstyle to be an effective player as his athleticism dwindles.

[cucad8]

everybody remembers he tried to pull that trade request back before the front office kicked him out the door.

He offered to report specifically until they could work out a deal with Miami, not to pull the trade request completely and stay a Blazer. This has been beaten to death, so no, apparently everybody doesn't remember.

[BlazersBroncos]

everybody remembers he tried to pull that trade request back before the front office kicked him out the door.

He offered to report specifically until they could work out a deal with Miami, not to pull the trade request completely and stay a Blazer. This has been beaten to death, so no, apparently everybody doesn't remember.

Ya. Dame asked out. Full stop. Whether that was warranted (it was) due to our incompetent roster building is another issue.

But he never rescinded his request.

[m0ng0]

everybody remembers he tried to pull that trade request back before the front office kicked him out the door.

He offered to report specifically until they could work out a deal with Miami, not to pull the trade request completely and stay a Blazer. This has been beaten to death, so no, apparently everybody doesn't remember.

SHOCKING, revisionist history is a funny thing, and quite honestly why would we pay him for this coming season as its most likely he won't even play. And really he does not fit this team anymore. That ship has sailed... let it go

[Wizenheimer]

My god they are playing Dame roughly 22 million a year for the next 5 years? Is that right?

I'm not sure about "when" he gets that paid, but the 22mil cap hold will be on their books for the next 5 years.

.

the stretch is a CBA mechanism to adjust a team's cap. Pretty sure Dame will be paid according to his contract terms: 54M next season; 58M the season after. The team and player might have some mutual-agreement-leeway to adjust payment schedules. I'm not sure about that

[Wizenheimer]

I believe the instances where a team gets some of their cap hold off the books are for buyouts? On a buyout then whatever the player signs for comes off the amount owed by the team that bought out the player.

For a stretch and waive, that’s there is there regardless of what the player signs a new deal of… I think.

I can very much be wrong on that.

Either the injury is much worse than we think or there were some serious problems going on we don't know about

There’s no need for tinfoil hatting this one. I know you want to find every possible angle to **** on Lillard and think he’s an awful person, you’ve had that agenda for awhile now, but the reality is pretty clear here for what happened.

yeah, this thread is a gift for him; more excuses to trash Dame

clearly, the Bucks were backed into a corner with Giannis. They needed to do something to head off a trade demand

personally, I think the Bucks will be pretty meh next season. No chance to contend. This move was desperation. They will be operating with 22M in less cap space and 22M in less margin under the tax and 22M in less margin under the aprons till 2030. That's a big handicap against the rest of the league

coincidentally, that handicap extends thru the unprotected 2029 1st, and both of the unprotected swaps the Blazers have

it was probably too much to ask of a front office, but Milwaukee should have just ripped off the band-aid and started shopping Giannis

[zzaj]

Lillard’s game has always been predicated on explosion in the halfcourt. Take away the explosion and you take away the very thing upon which every skill he had was predicated.

I hope he gets back to 80, 90 percent of himself, but at his age with that injury and a year-ish off from competitive basketball? That’s a very tall order.

His ability to burst and change pace in the halfcourt did indeed make him the superstar he was, and it’s hard to see him getting back to where he was without it.

But the #1 thing his gameplay predicated around wasn’t explosion, it was his ability to stretch the floor. His explosiveness helped him maximize that ability, for sure, but his game is ultimately built around making the defense stretch itself and then probe for the weak points.

So I agree his explosiveness was a big deal and will hamper him when he comes back, but he still has the skillset and playstyle to be an effective player as his athleticism dwindles.

He isn't stretching anything if he isn't a threat to get by people. How much different would Paul George's defense would have looked if he knew Lillard couldn't get around him?

I agree with you -- I think Lillard will have a role because he's a great shooter...but it will look very different than the primary creator role he's mostly taken on in his career.