WNBA expansion

[SkyBill40]

W never officially said it, but it's pretty clear these rounds of expansion were always going to current NBA owners/cities.

Getting to 16 is awesome. That seems like the perfect number for a while.

And I hope the owners don't add in too many more games than the current 44 in CBA talks (especially if they aren't going to lengthen of the season)

With 16 teams and 44 games, I think that's a good balance. It also adds a lot more variety and that has been desperately needed.

[Doctor MJ]

W never officially said it, but it's pretty clear these rounds of expansion were always going to current NBA owners/cities.

Getting to 16 is awesome. That seems like the perfect number for a while.

And I hope the owners don't add in too many more games than the current 44 in CBA talks (especially if they aren't going to lengthen of the season)

So you and I see things the same way, but the thing is: With this new announcement they're going to zoom right past 16.

I would have advised them to expand to 16, and then not consider further expansion until they can evaluate how the expansion to 16 went for the league and the new franchises.

[hermes]

I dont get why they aren't choosing cities without NBA teams. Especially a market like Detroit, that is already struggling economically. Think best approach would be to go into bigger cities with no or just 1 or 2 professional teams. Cities like Louisville, Albuquerque, Omaha, Virginia Beach might actually be super appreciative and supportive for having a team.

those cities tend to be smaller and being closely affiliated with nba teams seems to have produced good outcomes for several teams (facilities)

yes, you could build a good, rabid fan base in albuquerque but it would take a lot of money and patience because you'd be starting from square one

Isn’t the bulk of the money from TV/streaming deals? While I’d love for teams to go to smaller areas, that’d be fun, but economic realities mean larger viewing audience will remain at the forefront of decision-making.

yeah the media deal is probably the biggest piece of the pie but ticket and merchandise sales isn't nothing. golden state is selling an 18k arena every night, that looks more attractive than selling out a 8k arena. and selling jerseys to a metro area of 2 million people has more potential buyers than half a million. television market size probably has a lot to do with it as well

[hermes]

read something that the amount of injuries this season is already on pace to exceed the amount of games missed from injury of the last two years combined. might be a fluke or too many games in too short a time period without adequate rest. everyone is playing year-round

maybe the new cba will have enough money that players don't have to go overseas anymore.
but increasing roster sizes and adding a week or two onto the end of the season to space games out more would help

[bkkrh]

I dont get why they aren't choosing cities without NBA teams. Especially a market like Detroit, that is already struggling economically. Think best approach would be to go into bigger cities with no or just 1 or 2 professional teams. Cities like Louisville, Albuquerque, Omaha, Virginia Beach might actually be super appreciative and supportive for having a team.

You’ve got a point, but I assume these ownership groups were most ready to buy their way in.


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Yeah, that's a good point. Also being linked to an NBA team is probably an additional safety net in that sense. Guess a billionaire owner won't be bothered if they operate at a loss or not, since that loss will most likely be lower than the salary of a vet minimum contract.

[Green Chile]

W never officially said it, but it's pretty clear these rounds of expansion were always going to current NBA owners/cities.

Getting to 16 is awesome. That seems like the perfect number for a while.

And I hope the owners don't add in too many more games than the current 44 in CBA talks (especially if they aren't going to lengthen of the season)

So you and I see things the same way, but the thing is: With this new announcement they're going to zoom right past 16.

I would have advised them to expand to 16, and then not consider further expansion until they can evaluate how the expansion to 16 went for the league and the new franchises.

Fingers crossed that that's what they do, but I fear you might be right.

The W currently holds an advantage that only the NFL has in US pro sports. Every game has the feeling that it matters, and it doesn't take a huge time commitment to follow fairly closely. And the concentration of talent in the W is off the charts.

But I guess every league was in that position at one point and blew past the point of equilibrium once an extra nickel could be made.

[cupcakesnake]

Holy heck.
My first thought is: welcome (and welcome back in Detroit's case) to the W!

My second thought:
What is 5 straight expansion drafts going to do to this league???

Yeah the W should be expanding, but with this announcement I’d say they are going too fast.

Great that there are interested owners. But expanding too fast has burned many businesses, including the W itself previously.

The fact that rapid expansion will also noticeably weaken quality is no small thing either.


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On one hand, there are a lot of WNBA rotation quality basketball players who have been unable to make the league due to the tiny amount of roster spots. We have so many lottery picks who can't get a second contract. However, I'm not sure there's the same problem if we're only talking about all-star calibre players.

However the league is growing, and the increased opportunity for more players might unearth some talent that was buried.

[Doctor MJ]

Holy heck.
My first thought is: welcome (and welcome back in Detroit's case) to the W!

My second thought:
What is 5 straight expansion drafts going to do to this league???

Yeah the W should be expanding, but with this announcement I’d say they are going too fast.

Great that there are interested owners. But expanding too fast has burned many businesses, including the W itself previously.

The fact that rapid expansion will also noticeably weaken quality is no small thing either.


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On one hand, there are a lot of WNBA rotation quality basketball players who have been unable to make the league due to the tiny amount of roster spots. We have so many lottery picks who can't get a second contract. However, I'm not sure there's the same problem if we're only talking about all-star calibre players.

However the league is growing, and the increased opportunity for more players might unearth some talent that was buried.

It absolutely will, but if you expand too much too fast quality will dip significantly.

[SkyBill40]

Whatever the expansion figure, it needs to end on an even number for the sake of bracketing/division/region or what have you.

[JimmyPlopper]

I'm excited Philly finally gets a team. And the next step is: what will the logo/mascot/colors be?

[Green Chile]

One thing expansion will help with is getting enough product for the networks without running the players into the ground.

When you look at some of these scheduling issues this season running players into the ground, some of it Is simply a matter of not having enough teams.

Mondays aren't really an option because it would be too much (it's real easy for every team in the league to play on Saturday or Sunday, that's only 3 games a day). You get some Tuesday and Wednesday games, you've a couple Prime games on Thursday, then 2-3 Friday games on ION, then major networks need some afternoon and evening games on Saturday and Sunday.

It's a struggle to simply give the networks enough games in a responsible way, but 16 should help with that.

As mentioned, as we get to 16, it's time to pump the brakes and evaluate.

[KazuoOda]

Not really a fan of CLE and DET getting a second go at it, but I can understand the allure and novelty. CLE might have more success this time if they're partnered with Dan Gilbert and the Cavs as opposed to the previous owner in Gund, but there's no guarantees it'll be more successful than last time. As far as DET, they were a three time WNBA champion and had good success prior to their relocation(s).

Might have been nice to see some new locations and we'll get that in PHI. The locations considered were pretty strong though: St. Louis; Kansas City, Missouri; Austin, Texas; Nashville, Tennessee; Houston; Miami; Denver and Charlotte, North Carolina.

It's not like the Rockers failed last time, Gund disbanded them when he sold the Cavs and assumed Gilbert didn't want the team.

[SkyBill40]

Not really a fan of CLE and DET getting a second go at it, but I can understand the allure and novelty. CLE might have more success this time if they're partnered with Dan Gilbert and the Cavs as opposed to the previous owner in Gund, but there's no guarantees it'll be more successful than last time. As far as DET, they were a three time WNBA champion and had good success prior to their relocation(s).

Might have been nice to see some new locations and we'll get that in PHI. The locations considered were pretty strong though: St. Louis; Kansas City, Missouri; Austin, Texas; Nashville, Tennessee; Houston; Miami; Denver and Charlotte, North Carolina.

It's not like the Rockers failed last time, Gund disbanded them when he sold the Cavs and assumed Gilbert didn't want the team.

I realize that. They weren't all that successful though in their six year run. A middling WNBA franchise at best but seeing times are different now and there could be a better second go of it, I suppose that's fair enough. Still surprised they chose CLE over the likes of HOU, MIA, or DEN.

[KazuoOda]

Not really a fan of CLE and DET getting a second go at it, but I can understand the allure and novelty. CLE might have more success this time if they're partnered with Dan Gilbert and the Cavs as opposed to the previous owner in Gund, but there's no guarantees it'll be more successful than last time. As far as DET, they were a three time WNBA champion and had good success prior to their relocation(s).

Might have been nice to see some new locations and we'll get that in PHI. The locations considered were pretty strong though: St. Louis; Kansas City, Missouri; Austin, Texas; Nashville, Tennessee; Houston; Miami; Denver and Charlotte, North Carolina.

It's not like the Rockers failed last time, Gund disbanded them when he sold the Cavs and assumed Gilbert didn't want the team.

I realize that. They weren't all that successful though in their six year run. A middling WNBA franchise at best but seeing times are different now and there could be a better second go of it, I suppose that's fair enough. Still surprised they chose CLE over the likes of HOU, MIA, or DEN.

I believe they are taking money where they can get it. $250 million is a lot of money to buy into a league that isnt profitable. There might not be a line of investors willing to drop that for a team.
I don't know though.

[Doctor MJ]

Not really a fan of CLE and DET getting a second go at it, but I can understand the allure and novelty. CLE might have more success this time if they're partnered with Dan Gilbert and the Cavs as opposed to the previous owner in Gund, but there's no guarantees it'll be more successful than last time. As far as DET, they were a three time WNBA champion and had good success prior to their relocation(s).

Might have been nice to see some new locations and we'll get that in PHI. The locations considered were pretty strong though: St. Louis; Kansas City, Missouri; Austin, Texas; Nashville, Tennessee; Houston; Miami; Denver and Charlotte, North Carolina.

It's not like the Rockers failed last time, Gund disbanded them when he sold the Cavs and assumed Gilbert didn't want the team.

I realize that. They weren't all that successful though in their six year run. A middling WNBA franchise at best but seeing times are different now and there could be a better second go of it, I suppose that's fair enough. Still surprised they chose CLE over the likes of HOU, MIA, or DEN.

If Rockets' ownership really wanted to bring the Comets back, I'd expect that that's exactly what would have happened.

Just in general, any major market NBA team that doesn't also own a WNBA team is just generally not a believer in women's basketball, and by "team", I really just mean the billionaire in question.

I will say I'm really glad to hear Philly's getting a team finally.

I'll also note that neither the New York Knicks ownership nor the Chicago Bull ownership owns the WNBA team in the city, so put those rich men in the category of non-believers in women's sports. (A bit more complicated with NY because Dolan used to own the LIbery...but he didn't really support them.)

[SkyBill40]

It's not like the Rockers failed last time, Gund disbanded them when he sold the Cavs and assumed Gilbert didn't want the team.

I realize that. They weren't all that successful though in their six year run. A middling WNBA franchise at best but seeing times are different now and there could be a better second go of it, I suppose that's fair enough. Still surprised they chose CLE over the likes of HOU, MIA, or DEN.

I believe they are taking money where they can get it. $250 million is a lot of money to buy into a league that isnt profitable. There might not be a line of investors willing to drop that for a team.
I don't know though.

It's hard to believe what was once a $50M buy-in has now increase five fold. Crazy. And yeah, a quarter of a billion dollars isn't chump change. Can't say I blame some people balking at the buy in and especially so on a product that's still just skipping across the surface of the profitability pond and could slow and take a dive at any minute.

[nick p]

The Detroit Shock should have never left the Detroit Market in the first place!

[Ice Man]

After these franchises are admitted, the league will have 18 teams. If each plays 4x against each of its 8 Conference opponents and 2x against its 9 non-Conference foes, that would make for a 50-game season.

[Chip]

Necessary WNBA expansion; will be throwing a riot if Cleveland isn't named the Rockers again

[CIN-C-STAR]

Sophie Cunningham is not a fan of the expansion cities selected:
“You want to listen to your players, too. Where do they want to play? Where are they gonna get excited to play and draw fans?… don't know how excited people are to be going to Detroit or [Cleveland]."

Yikes.
I get that these people are famous and so they want to live in big markets and places that are glamorous, but this kind of entitlement isn’t a good look imo.
If Giannis can live in Milwaukee and learn to love the city, I’m sure these ladies will be alright in Detroit or Cleveland for half the year.
I mean hell, if it raises salaries it’s gotta be better than playing in Russia in the offseason right?
I don’t even think the league should care where players want to play tbh, at least not until they’re profitable.