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Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS

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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#61 » by ButterflyRave » Tue Jul 1, 2025 11:10 pm

Pacers Forever wrote:I have kept in my memories when Turner did a video saying that he told Jalen Smith adamantly he needs to take the bag. So it doesn’t surprise me that Turner took the biggest bag he could get.


I come here to post about Jalen Smith, and I find your post mentioning him… How about that?

I may be alone here, but if they’re going to go out and get depth at center, my preference is for them to use their mid-level exception to trade with Chicago to get Jalen Smith back. That and re-signing Jackson. Obviously not a replacement for Myles, but we know both guys fit with this team’s culture and won’t kill the cap for future years.

Ayton, unless on a one-year deal or a second year team option, is just too risky to me.
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#62 » by Grang33r » Wed Jul 2, 2025 12:52 am

Its been a rough 10 days for our Pacers.
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#63 » by Grang33r » Wed Jul 2, 2025 12:54 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:Bradley is under contract. Isaiah Jackson has a qualifying offer, so we’ll likely extend him long term now.

At that point, especially if we extend Mathurin, and the cap only rises 7% instead of 10%, we’re flirting with the tax? With no real answer at long term center.


Gotta wonder about James Wiseman returning.
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#64 » by basketballwacko2 » Wed Jul 2, 2025 1:52 am

Wizop wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:Yeah losing 45 games and picking 12th! :onfire:


37-45 was Miami's record last year. They finished 10th. before trades their draft pick was 20.


They made the playoffs. Who knows maybe they can figure out a way to eek out the 8th in the East then you have a losing year and a bad draft pick. I was being overly optimistic with the 12th pick.
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#65 » by basketballwacko2 » Wed Jul 2, 2025 1:54 am

JMaster5K wrote:
Wizop wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:Yeah losing 45 games and picking 12th! :onfire:


37-45 was Miami's record last year. They finished 10th. before trades their draft pick was 20.


Honestly, depending on how Benn has grown his game,.. and how the Pacers use him? I can see us being a better defensive team next year? If the FO can find any 5 that can provide rim defense? Offensively, it's going to be a bit more difficult. Spacing is going to be more difficult. But,.. if the combination of Benn, Drew, & TJ can consistently get down-hill to put pressure on the rim,... playing off Pascal's mid-post?... this can be a very interesting year?.....

I could see us winning 45,... and wouldn't be surprised. I could see us losing 55,... and wouldn't be surprised. Pressure is off.


The Pacers have had a long history of shot blockers going back to JO and Dale Davis, IDK how good Tony Bradley is at it but we're gonna find out.
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#66 » by basketballwacko2 » Wed Jul 2, 2025 1:57 am

So the first day of Free Agency is out of the way and all the Pacers did was waive bye bye to Myles Turner!
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#67 » by boomershadow » Wed Jul 2, 2025 3:00 am

I was one of the biggest Turner fans even during the McMillan years. Really glad he and the team got to have a finals run together. Big fan of what he brought to the table both on and off the court.

But he is a player with a somewhat specific set of strengths and weaknesses, and him being a big part of the team for a decade has seen us tied to those strengths and weaknesses for a long time. As much as I know this is a blow to the team to lose him for nothing, I am also excited to see what could happen with the team going in a new direction at the center spot after all this time.
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#68 » by JMaster5K » Wed Jul 2, 2025 7:26 am

Maybe a 2 + 1, min contract value, team option in the 3rd, only first year guaranteed for Georgios Papagiannis? :dontknow:
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#69 » by JMaster5K » Wed Jul 2, 2025 8:21 am

ButterflyRave wrote:
Pacers Forever wrote:I have kept in my memories when Turner did a video saying that he told Jalen Smith adamantly he needs to take the bag. So it doesn’t surprise me that Turner took the biggest bag he could get.


I come here to post about Jalen Smith, and I find your post mentioning him… How about that?

I may be alone here, but if they’re going to go out and get depth at center, my preference is for them to use their mid-level exception to trade with Chicago to get Jalen Smith back. That and re-signing Jackson. Obviously not a replacement for Myles, but we know both guys fit with this team’s culture and won’t kill the cap for future years.

Ayton, unless on a one-year deal or a second year team option, is just too risky to me.


In looking at it,... you've got a nice bit of insight for thinking of Jalen. He wouldn't be a 'full size' starting 5. He did & does get pushed around a lot, both offensively and defensively. But,... he didn't actually play in a full '5 out' offense like we used last year? He did play in the mostly 5 out offense we used in 23-24,... he had a career year & shot 42.4% from 3, on 6.5 attempts per 100 possession, 2.4 attempt per game. He can play fast at the 5.

He has played mostly (71%, 83%, 98%) at the 5 over the last 3 years. In our current offense, he would spend a lot more time at the 3 point line, which would play into his strengths. He lost time in the rotation after the trade for Pascal, as he was more effective as a 5, but didn't have the defensive effectiveness of I-Jax? Both Myles & i-Jax had good availability that season. He would be a risk, as he's never played more than 24 mpg in a season,... He went to Chi-town for a better opportunity, but ended up playing less than he had the season before for the Pacers?

He is limited as a rim defender do to his length,... (it is legit center length, just on the low end) & strength, but,... he has good instincts & mobility that allow him to be a reasonably effective shot blocker. He isn't going to alter an opponents offense, but he can make opponents pay if they don't execute crisply. When he has played the 5, he has been a better rebounder than Myles. He would also be much more switchable than Myles?

I think most teams would play him with a wing, as he isn't that overly long? which would allow teams to put a real 5 on Pascal?... Could he make them pay for that? force an opponent to cover him with a 5? (unlikely?), or force a team to cover him with a second big (PF? - much more likely) Get strong enough to make them pay on the blocks when they do cover him with a wing?...

Could be a very interesting option for this year? with the possibility of growing into a long term role, most likely as the primary backup, getting real minutes?...

Another option might be Robert Williams III. He would be better defensively, and is strong enough to play as a small 5,... but do we have any confidence that he could be available for most of the season?
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#70 » by ButterflyRave » Wed Jul 2, 2025 9:54 am

JMaster5K wrote:he didn't actually play in a full '5 out' offense like we used last year? He did play in the mostly 5 out offense we used in 23-24,... he had a career year & shot 42.4% from 3, on 6.5 attempts per 100 possession, 2.4 attempt per game. He can play fast at the 5.


JMaster5K wrote: He isn't going to alter an opponents offense, but he can make opponents pay if they don't execute crisply. When he has played the 5, he has been a better rebounder than Myles. He would also be much more switchable than Myles?


These points match my thinking - better rebounder, good shooter, switchable - with the added bonus that it shouldn’t take much to get him as he didn’t have a great year last year, is down the depth chart, and isn’t on a crazy contract. Who knows, maybe the bulls would be happy to get off his contract? I just think he and IJax could be a platoon center rotation with Obi and Bradley getting minutes too.

JMaster5K wrote: Another option might be Robert Williams III. He would be better defensively, and is strong enough to play as a small 5,... but do we have any confidence that he could be available for most of the season?


I like Williams too. Elite rim protector when healthy. Only one year left so not a huge commitment.

The other option I was thinking of is Kelly Olynyk who just got traded to the Wizards.
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#71 » by JMaster5K » Wed Jul 2, 2025 10:15 am

ButterflyRave wrote:
JMaster5K wrote:he didn't actually play in a full '5 out' offense like we used last year? He did play in the mostly 5 out offense we used in 23-24,... he had a career year & shot 42.4% from 3, on 6.5 attempts per 100 possession, 2.4 attempt per game. He can play fast at the 5.


JMaster5K wrote: He isn't going to alter an opponents offense, but he can make opponents pay if they don't execute crisply. When he has played the 5, he has been a better rebounder than Myles. He would also be much more switchable than Myles?


These points match my thinking - better rebounder, good shooter, switchable - with the added bonus that it shouldn’t take much to get him as he didn’t have a great year last year, is down the depth chart, and isn’t on a crazy contract. Who knows, maybe the bulls would be happy to get off his contract? I just think he and IJax could be a platoon center rotation with Obi and Bradley getting minutes too.

JMaster5K wrote: Another option might be Robert Williams III. He would be better defensively, and is strong enough to play as a small 5,... but do we have any confidence that he could be available for most of the season?


I like Williams too. Elite rim protector when healthy. Only one year left so not a huge commitment.

The other option I was thinking of is Kelly Olynyk who just got traded to the Wizards.


:lol: I looked at Olynyk as well,... :D

In looking at these options,... for what should be expected production from them,... I just don't see anyone on our roster, that I would be willing to trade for a band-aid for this year, while Tyrese is out?.... Even if they can be a rotation player long term. It feels like, we would be selling low on players just as they have an opportunity to increase their value?

We have all our firsts,... but I'm also not feeling a trading a future first for any of these (at the moment),... so, for me, it would have to be someone that their team is willing to trade for 2-4 seconds?.... don't really feel like that is likely, now? Things change a lot between now & training camp,... so??? Maybe worth holding pat for a bit?

The only advantage I see to Ayton is that he could be available now,... if the price is right, without impacting the other options as they become available?...
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#72 » by ButterflyRave » Wed Jul 2, 2025 10:47 am

JMaster5K wrote:I just don't see anyone on our roster, that I would be willing to trade for a band-aid for this year, while Tyrese is out?.... Even if they can be a rotation player long term. It feels like, we would be selling low on players just as they have an opportunity to increase their value?


I agree. This is what makes Jalen such a good option to me. I don’t see why we need to trade anyone for him, we can just absorb him into our MLE. Maybe offer a low value second round pick for him.
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#73 » by JMaster5K » Wed Jul 2, 2025 11:27 am

ButterflyRave wrote:
JMaster5K wrote:I just don't see anyone on our roster, that I would be willing to trade for a band-aid for this year, while Tyrese is out?.... Even if they can be a rotation player long term. It feels like, we would be selling low on players just as they have an opportunity to increase their value?


I agree. This is what makes Jalen such a good option to me. I don’t see why we need to trade anyone for him, we can just absorb him into our MLE. Maybe offer a low value second round pick for him.


yeah,... all the options we've looked at, could be absorbed into our MLE. Ayton via FA sign,... Jalen & Robert have low enough salaries they could trade into it,... but like you said,... the other team has to be willing to part with them for basically 2nd's. Jalen is probably the best bet for that?.... I'd be happy even if it took 2 or 3 seconds for the Bulls to move him?

Williams is actually highly respected in POR,... they value him more than his salary for what he brings to the young players & locker room presence. I don't see them moving off him for seconds? might?... but I just don't think it's likely.
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#74 » by GreatBuchinsky » Wed Jul 2, 2025 12:25 pm

The Jalen Smith idea is pretty interesting. I do like the idea of a big who can shoot a bit as it opens up the court more for Benn and Pascal to operate. Same reason I’d rather have Thomas Bryant as the 3rd center over Bradley. I’d also like to see more small ball Obi/Pascal lineups as well.
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#75 » by OnFire » Wed Jul 2, 2025 1:30 pm

Bol Bol will more than make up for Myles leaving. He'll play with a chip on his shoulder 8-)

If we can sign Ben Simmons, too, and provide a culture that will get him straight, we can make good on this supposed gap year. 8-)
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#76 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jul 2, 2025 1:37 pm

OnFire wrote:Bol Bol will more than make up for Myles leaving. He'll play with a chip on his shoulder 8-)


Bol Bol has been let go by several teams because they don’t think he’ll put in the hard work to get better or learn the teams playbooks and systems.
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#77 » by ButterflyRave » Wed Jul 2, 2025 1:43 pm

OnFire wrote:Bol Bol will more than make up for Myles leaving. He'll play with a chip on his shoulder 8-)

If we can sign Ben Simmons, too, and provide a culture that will get him straight, we can make good on this supposed gap year. 8-)


I'm not interested in using our culture to fix players' habits or attitudes. I want players that will without question mesh with our team, or better yet add to our culture.
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#78 » by ButterflyRave » Wed Jul 2, 2025 1:56 pm

To piggyback on the culture thing, Myles and Tyrese have been a huge part of our culture. We won't have Tyrese on the court this year - who knows how much of his rehab will happen around the team - and we won't have Myles at all. So how much can we really lean on our culture this year? I'm not sure.

Players like Ayton, Simmons, and Bol who have work ethic or "love of the game" questions don't seem like a worthwhile risk. Sure, taking a 1-2 year flyer on one of those guys might pan out, but I don't see any of them having that much upside.
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#79 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jul 2, 2025 2:42 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
OnFire wrote:Bol Bol will more than make up for Myles leaving. He'll play with a chip on his shoulder 8-)


Bol Bol has been let go by several teams because they don’t think he’ll put in the hard work to get better or learn the teams playbooks and systems.



But I LOVE the thinking outside the box. And we definitely need guys 6’10” and taller!
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Re: Shams: Turner agrees to terms with BUCKS 

Post#80 » by JMaster5K » Wed Jul 2, 2025 3:47 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
OnFire wrote:Bol Bol will more than make up for Myles leaving. He'll play with a chip on his shoulder 8-)


Bol Bol has been let go by several teams because they don’t think he’ll put in the hard work to get better or learn the teams playbooks and systems.



But I LOVE the thinking outside the box. And we definitely need guys 6’10” and taller!


You got any magic formula's for adding a foot to a guy's height?..... a 7'5" Aaron Nesmith would really shock the league! o0

(kidding) :lol: :lol:

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