Jazz reporter Tony Jones: Trade market not there for John Collins

[MoneyTalks41890]

I dropped this in the general thread but it’s a bad enough idea I’ll drop it here too.

Two versions.

Vincent, Kleber, 2026 swap rights for Collins

Vincent, Kleber, Shake Milton, 2030 swap, 2031 1st for Collins, Kessler Walker

Zero interest in moving Kessler. I'm genuinely curious, what value do you think the 2026 swap has? (I wouldn't say none, but you can see none from there.)

Yeah don’t blame you on Kessler but I think getting LAL over a barrel could be beneficial and the Utah timeline appears to be elongating.

I give the swap some kind of 2nd round pick value. Very minimal. But huge upside on that tiny chance.

[jbk1234]

Wait at free agency end and there might be a market . Ainge jr was saying Utah wanted to be competitive though so they might keep their vets and trade the talents that haven’t panned out.

He lied. They will lose their first round pick to OKC if it is over 8:th pick. Next year this changes to second round picks, so Utah will do anything they can in their power to finish bottom 3 this year, so they can keep their pick.

They all ready let Clarkson go for free. True Clarkson did suck last two years, so no real loss here. But Sexton was team top 4 player last year and they traded him to Charlotte for Nurkic, who will be a back up center. Only reason why they did it is to get more playing time to young players, who are not as good as Sexton. In future they might be, but it doesn't help this year.

Honestly, the chances of the Jazz conveying that pick were extremely low before they traded Sexton and bought out Clarkson. I don't think the NBA can tell a rebuilding team they're not allowed to force feed Ace Bailey minutes to develop him.

Collins doesn't have a positive market. Clarkson didn't have a positive market. Sexton had been on the market at least three times since the Mitchell trade and they had to attach picks to him. I don't think the NBA can tell a rebuilding team they have to attach picks to players to clear salary.

Starting rookies almost always results in additional losses but it's the only way to accelerate development. The Jazz were a bad team. They're going to be a bad team. Outside of telling them they can't rest healthy starters, it's not clear what the Jazz or the league can do about it.

[GatherStepGuru]

I think WAS should consider him as a competent playable big next to Sarr, so he’s not getting destroyed all season.

Collins for Kispert, Holmes and a future 2nd

[penbeast0]

I think WAS should consider him as a competent playable big next to Sarr, so he’s not getting destroyed all season.

Collins for Kispert, Holmes and a future 2nd

Maybe next year; this year we apparently want Sarr left alone on the island so we can tank and not lose our 1st to the Knicks.

[SkyHook]

I dropped this in the general thread but it’s a bad enough idea I’ll drop it here too.

Two versions.

Vincent, Kleber, 2026 swap rights for Collins

Vincent, Kleber, Shake Milton, 2030 swap, 2031 1st for Collins, Kessler Walker

Zero interest in moving Kessler. I'm genuinely curious, what value do you think the 2026 swap has? (I wouldn't say none, but you can see none from there.)

Yeah don’t blame you on Kessler but I think getting LAL over a barrel could be beneficial and the Utah timeline appears to be elongating.

I give the swap some kind of 2nd round pick value. Very minimal. But huge upside on that tiny chance.

I think the most important thing a rebuilding team can do is to identify and retain the keepers. Kessler is that, to me and by all indications to the Jazz as well. And I was thinking that swap had about a top-45 or -50 SRP value. Not great, jot even good, but not nothing. With the competence level of this Jazz FO, the Lakers might be able to pull it off for the $4MM cost savings alone.

It's funny, Jabari Smith Jr. isn't a fraction of the player that Collins is, but few have a problem with the 5y, $122MM deal he just got and Collins, making marginally more on an expiring deal, might get moved for scraps. The illusion of youth and upside is something else.

[jbk1234]

Zero interest in moving Kessler. I'm genuinely curious, what value do you think the 2026 swap has? (I wouldn't say none, but you can see none from there.)

Yeah don’t blame you on Kessler but I think getting LAL over a barrel could be beneficial and the Utah timeline appears to be elongating.

I give the swap some kind of 2nd round pick value. Very minimal. But huge upside on that tiny chance.

I think the most important thing a rebuilding team can do is to identify and retain the keepers. Kessler is that, to me and by all indications to the Jazz as well. And I was thinking that swap had about a top-45 or -50 SRP value. Not great, jot even good, but not nothing. With the competence level of this Jazz FO, the Lakers might be able to pull it off for the $4MM cost savings alone.

It's funny, Jabari Smith Jr. isn't a fraction of the player that Collins is, but few have a problem with the 5y, $122MM deal he just got and Collins, making marginally more on an expiring deal, might get moved for scraps. The illusion of youth and upside is something else.

If Smith has nuetral value on his extension, and as was the case with Green I'm not convinced, it's due to the fact that he's 22 and there's growth potential. Collins is 27, has already undergone his second-team reclamation journey, and trade partners are assuming this is it.

[jazzfan1971]

I remember when the Jazz insisted they were going to win this year. We still on that? Will Lauri make the playoffs while still in his prime? Or did he sell his chance for this paycheck?

Curious what the vision in Utah is. I guess its tank again and hope the 50% chance of a top 4 hits this time?

I think the plan was always to suck this year. I don't think they ever said they were going to be good. They said that they weren't going to tank. Which I'm assuming they mean that they aren't going to hold players back this year.

[babyjax13]

I think WAS should consider him as a competent playable big next to Sarr, so he’s not getting destroyed all season.

Collins for Kispert, Holmes and a future 2nd

Kispert needs a third team, we should not want to pay or play him. He is fine, just a bad fit.

[Texas Chuck]

It's funny, Jabari Smith Jr. isn't a fraction of the player that Collins is, but few have a problem with the 5y, $122MM deal he just got and Collins, making marginally more on an expiring deal, might get moved for scraps. The illusion of youth and upside is something else.

Are we sure Collins is head and shoulders a better player? Oh I know he's a more efficient scorer, but that's relatively minor for a 4/5 compared to defensive impact.

I don't think its illusion of youth. I think its we all know who John Collins is at this point and its not great.

[SkyHook]

It's funny, Jabari Smith Jr. isn't a fraction of the player that Collins is, but few have a problem with the 5y, $122MM deal he just got and Collins, making marginally more on an expiring deal, might get moved for scraps. The illusion of youth and upside is something else.

Are we sure Collins is head and shoulders a better player? Oh I know he's a more efficient scorer, but that's relatively minor for a 4/5 compared to defensive impact.

I don't think its illusion of youth. I think its we all know who John Collins is at this point and its not great.

I've got Smith as better on defense, but marginally so. Collins has been passable on D in Utah and it's not like Smith is going to be in the running for an all-defensive team. Collins efficiency on offense is far and away better. Both are significantly overpaid.

That said, I'm under no illusion that Collins has much, if anything, in the way of trade value. It is what it is.

[SkyHook]

Yeah don’t blame you on Kessler but I think getting LAL over a barrel could be beneficial and the Utah timeline appears to be elongating.

I give the swap some kind of 2nd round pick value. Very minimal. But huge upside on that tiny chance.

I think the most important thing a rebuilding team can do is to identify and retain the keepers. Kessler is that, to me and by all indications to the Jazz as well. And I was thinking that swap had about a top-45 or -50 SRP value. Not great, jot even good, but not nothing. With the competence level of this Jazz FO, the Lakers might be able to pull it off for the $4MM cost savings alone.

It's funny, Jabari Smith Jr. isn't a fraction of the player that Collins is, but few have a problem with the 5y, $122MM deal he just got and Collins, making marginally more on an expiring deal, might get moved for scraps. The illusion of youth and upside is something else.

If Smith has nuetral value on his extension, and as was the case with Green I'm not convinced, it's due to the fact that he's 22 and there's growth potential. Collins is 27, has already undergone his second-team reclamation journey, and trade partners are assuming this is it.

I get it in terms of Collins being who he is, but who he is is far better than anything Smith has shown to date and I don't have any expectation that a leap is forthcoming.

[Vae Victus]

No one’s trading anything for Collins other than a worse contract that Utah rightly don’t want. But tbh they SHOULD take back a putrid ideally 2 year deal since it’s not like they’re gonna use their cap space on anything anytime soon and try to harvest value.

Kessler is a keeper but what’s his next contract looking like? Poetl just got a 3yr 84m extension, so that’s very likely what Kessler’s agent will use as a barometer. Are the Jazz cool with paying Kessler 4yr/110m when he hits RFA status? I can see other teams desperate for size throwing that size deal at him. If they’re not comfortable with paying that much for him they should look to trade asap. But it’s hard for another team to give up a rookie scale contract and multiple FRPs when they’re facing the same conundrum of having to pay Kessler his fact extension. Kessler’s allure diminished greatly the moment he’s fairly paid.

[mg]

Wait at free agency end and there might be a market . Ainge jr was saying Utah wanted to be competitive though so they might keep their vets and trade the talents that haven’t panned out.

He lied. They will lose their first round pick to OKC if it is over 8:th pick. Next year this changes to second round picks, so Utah will do anything they can in their power to finish bottom 3 this year, so they can keep their pick.

They all ready let Clarkson go for free. True Clarkson did suck last two years, so no real loss here. But Sexton was team top 4 player last year and they traded him to Charlotte for Nurkic, who will be a back up center. Only reason why they did it is to get more playing time to young players, who are not as good as Sexton. In future they might be, but it doesn't help this year.

Honestly, the chances of the Jazz conveying that pick were extremely low before they traded Sexton and bought out Clarkson. I don't think the NBA can tell a rebuilding team they're not allowed to force feed Ace Bailey minutes to develop him.

Collins doesn't have a positive market. Clarkson didn't have a positive market. Sexton had been on the market at least three times since the Mitchell trade and they had to attach picks to him. I don't think the NBA can tell a rebuilding team they have to attach picks to players to clear salary.

Starting rookies almost always results in additional losses but it's the only way to accelerate development. The Jazz were a bad team. They're going to be a bad team. Outside of telling them they can't rest healthy starters, it's not clear what the Jazz or the league can do about it.

The problem for them is the flattened lottery odds. They finished with the worst record and only got the 5th pick. Basically they need to be a bottom 3 team to 100% keep their '26 FRP pick which means they couldn't allow any of these vet players to accidentally win them a game or two. Looking at on/off numbers a guy like Sexton had a +3.4 on/off last season albeit mainly because other guys like Keyonte were so bad.

[jbk1234]

I think the most important thing a rebuilding team can do is to identify and retain the keepers. Kessler is that, to me and by all indications to the Jazz as well. And I was thinking that swap had about a top-45 or -50 SRP value. Not great, jot even good, but not nothing. With the competence level of this Jazz FO, the Lakers might be able to pull it off for the $4MM cost savings alone.

It's funny, Jabari Smith Jr. isn't a fraction of the player that Collins is, but few have a problem with the 5y, $122MM deal he just got and Collins, making marginally more on an expiring deal, might get moved for scraps. The illusion of youth and upside is something else.

If Smith has nuetral value on his extension, and as was the case with Green I'm not convinced, it's due to the fact that he's 22 and there's growth potential. Collins is 27, has already undergone his second-team reclamation journey, and trade partners are assuming this is it.

I get it in terms of Collins being who he is, but who he is is far better than anything Smith has shown to date and I don't have any expectation that a leap is forthcoming.

Smith is better, but not great, on the defensive end. Big men take longer to develop, etc.

That said, I'm not a fan of splitting the difference on rookie extensions. If you have to factor improvement to get to a contract number, don't offer that number. If the player doesn't improve, you're stuck and the PPP makes the guy untradeable for a year. You get a fourth season of a rookie deal to evaluate. Use it. The worst that happens is the player is more expensive the following summer, but that's a good problem to have.

[mg]

I'm still a John Collins fan and think he could definitely have an Obi Toppin type impact for a playoff team. Unfortunately Collins opted into nearly $27 mil while Obi is tied into a reasonable contract making $14 mil next season.

[SkyHook]

If Smith has nuetral value on his extension, and as was the case with Green I'm not convinced, it's due to the fact that he's 22 and there's growth potential. Collins is 27, has already undergone his second-team reclamation journey, and trade partners are assuming this is it.

I get it in terms of Collins being who he is, but who he is is far better than anything Smith has shown to date and I don't have any expectation that a leap is forthcoming.

Smith is better, but not great, on the defensive end. Big men take longer to develop, etc.

That said, I'm not a fan of splitting the difference on rookie extensions. If you have to factor improvement to get to a contract number, don't offer that number. If the player doesn't improve, you're stuck and the PPP makes the guy untradeable for a year. You get a fourth season of a rookie deal to evaluate. Use it. The worst that happens is the player is more expensive the following summer, but that's a good problem to have.

You hit the nail on the head.

And other than his first six weeks in Utah, Collins has been passable on D; granted Smith is marginally better.

[MoneyTalks41890]

What about something like

Grant Williams, Josh Green, 2026 1st (worst of PHX, WAS, ORL, MEM) lotto prot for Collins?

[SkyHook]

What about something like

Grant Williams, Josh Green, 2026 1st (worst of PHX, WAS, ORL, MEM) lotto prot for Collins?

The value is in the ballpark, but the Jazz have previously stated that they don't want to take on money beyond next season and everything they've done so far seems to confirm that. I would hope/expect that they might reconsider for the right deal, but I don't see them abandoning their capspace plan for this level of return. I'm thinking a worse player who is also on an expiring contract + some minor incentive would do it.

[They_Them_Hatin]

Collins should’ve took a buyout and got the MLE. What is his agent doing? Does Ainge really need Rozier and a 2nd? He’ll be a good fit in Miami, all teams in Cali, and Denver.

[They_Them_Hatin]

I'm still a John Collins fan and think he could definitely have an Obi Toppin type impact for a playoff team. Unfortunately Collins opted into nearly $27 mil while Obi is tied into a reasonable contract making $14 mil next season.

Agreed! Which is why he should’ve took a buyout too before all the free agent money goes. How many teams still have their non tax payer MLE?