2025 Offseason Thread Vol.4

[DayofMourning]

With no Rozier and Duncan mouths to feed, its time to see that internal growth.

[contract]

Bucks are paying 22.5M for five years. This year, 100% minimum deal. Teams are ofc gonna want him to sign a 2-3 year minimum deal but... lets say he does just a 1 year deal. And word is hes looking good in practice toward end of season. And offseason lots of teams will have money unlike this year. Will dame prioritize getting a last 2-60M type contract? Which means bucks pay nothing those two years. And hes making a total of 16M more. And then he goes back to minimum and making 22.5 from bucks years 4-5. Or maybe hes not even in nba year 5 but still collecting. Its really up to dame if he wants to chase the money and if someone will pay him 30-35M a year. Obviously its either minimum or 25M and up type offers.

No, that's just a salary cap thing. Dame is getting paid the same as if he was playing.

$54,126,450 this coming season
$58,456,566 next season

The offsets would be against those numbers.

Source?

CBS Yahoo and AI all back up what I said.

You are correct. They changed the rules in the 2011 CBA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap#Stretch_provision

[greg4012]

I know the odds are slim, but for anyone interested in monitoring the situation, Jaren Jackson Jr extending with Memphis takes the most attractive prospective 2026 free agent that the Lakers could hope to pair with Luka next offseason off the market.

I understand the Lakers cache, and consider it far more likely that Luka extends with LA this offseason than hold off and enter free agency in 2026. But, the Lakers paths to putting together a decent roster around him are only getting slimmer.

If interested, this is the list of potential 2026 free agents for LA to try to pair with Luka and Reaves (and maybe Ayton in their best case scenario? lol):

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2026

- Expectation is Lebron will retire
- Expectation is KD will extend with Houston this offseason
- Expectation is Trae will extend with ATL (and is a terrible fit)
- Expectation is Fox will extend with SAS
- Porzingis can't stay healthy
- IHart is a nice complementary piece (would be an upgrade over Ayton)
- Mikal Bridges is a nice complementary piece (he used to play defense) that will get overpaid
- Aaron Gordon is a nice complementary piece (I'd expect him to extend with Denver before FA)

How does LA build a team after paying Luka AND (overpaying) Reaves?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Whitmore vs Kuminga:

Combine height: 6’5.75 - 6’7 (both currently listed at 6’7 now.

Wingspan: 6’8.5 - 6’11

Weight: 235 - 217.2

Vertical: 40.5 - 38

Basically a wash all things considered.

Current stats/numbers:

Age: 20 - 22

3pt%: 36% (4 attempts) - 33% (2 attempts)

Reb%: 10.4 - 9.9

Per 36 for those who care:

Whitmore: 22.3-7-2-1-1 on 18.3 FGA 55.5TS%

Kuminga: 20.5-6.6-3-1-1 on 15.2 FGA 58.3TS%

Kuminga slightly more efficient likely due to a higher free throw rate.

Contract: 2/$9M for Whitmore - 3/$90+ (reportedly for Kuminga looking for $30M+ a year with 3 years being the minimum requirement of a sign and trade)

Conclusion: similar players size wise, personality wise, and numbers wise. Both are black holes and overly confident in themselves (which can be a good thing if you reel it in). Whitmore is the better shooter while Kuminga is better at getting to the line. Age, contract situation, and shooting ability makes me favor Whitmore pretty easily. If we take Kuminga at 3/$90M and he sucks we’re stuck with a bad contract, if we get Whitmore and he sucks we just don’t resign him. If he’s good he’s a cheap cost controlled rotation player for the next 2 years with a high ceiling.

Honestly if it wasn’t for the contract situation I wouldn’t care which one you gave me but if we’re going to take on a developmental project at the 3 there is a much safer answer here.

They both DO have all star potential but will they be able to put it all together is the main question.

[contract]

Duncan did not opt out to test the market. His agent knew they had a willing taker that would extend him. They approached the Heat to see if they were willing to play ball, opted out and the move was made.

You don’t opt out of 20M in the hopes that your previous employer will want to make a trade so you can sign a 3yr/48M dollar deal.

You don't have to agree to take back garbage to move Duncan. We could have told the Pistons to find another landing spot for Fontecchio.

If you think Duncan opted out without assurance and plan in coordination with Miami FO, then I have a new crypto coin I'd like to sell you.

Then we need a new front office. Duncan didn't opt out to help us, he opted out to help himself. They can take the sign and trade on our terms or they can take his $9 million and pound sand.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I know the odds are slim, but for anyone interested in monitoring the situation, Jaren Jackson Jr extending with Memphis takes the most attractive prospective 2026 free agent that the Lakers could hope to pair with Luka next offseason off the market.

I understand the Lakers cache, and consider it far more likely that Luka extends with LA this offseason than hold off and enter free agency in 2026. But, the Lakers paths to putting together a decent roster around him are only getting slimmer.

If interested, this is the list of potential 2026 free agents for LA to try to pair with Luka and Reaves (and maybe Ayton in their best case scenario? lol):

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2026

- Expectation is Lebron will retire
- Expectation is KD will extend with Houston this offseason
- Expectation is Trae will extend with ATL (and is a terrible fit)
- Expectation is Fox will extend with SAS
- Porzingis can't stay healthy
- IHart is a nice complementary piece (would be an upgrade over Ayton)
- Mikal Bridges is a nice complementary piece (he used to play defense) that will get overpaid
- Aaron Gordon is a nice complementary piece (I'd expect him to extend with Denver before FA)

How does LA build a team after paying Luka AND (overpaying) Reaves?

I think he’s eligible for the extension on August 1st so there’s our key date to watch.

I actually do feel like there’s some hope for Fox considering the good young guards they have that need high reps. Outside of those 2 there’s not much

[contract]

Our legit scouts know the players on their radar since high school - their work ethic, attitude, and skill set. So they must see something in Kuminga that we casual fans might not fully recognize.

They probably view him as a low-risk, high-reward project. He's incredibly athletic and could develop well under our coaching staff with the right fundamental training.

Personally, I'm intrigued and open to a reasonable deal. We lack a POA attacker who can pressure the paint outside of Herro, and Kuminga could definitely help fill that gap.

We don't need a POA guy, we need a star player to build around. Treadmill team is something that sometimes happens to you, but should never be the goal.

Can you share and lend some ideas on how to get a star?

Yes I can.

1. Quit trading away your assets for garbage or to get rid of your garbage.
2. Get your cap in order.
3. Wait for the next star to sour on his team.

[fincane30]

You don't have to agree to take back garbage to move Duncan. We could have told the Pistons to find another landing spot for Fontecchio.

If you think Duncan opted out without assurance and plan in coordination with Miami FO, then I have a new crypto coin I'd like to sell you.

Then we need a new front office. Duncan didn't opt out to help us, he opted out to help himself. They can take the sign and trade on our terms or they can take his $9 million and pound sand.

Or Duncan never opts out because the Heat take your stance. You're forced to cut him. Owe him nearly 10 million. Have it count against your tax sheet and have no mechanisms to get rid of that dead money. Whereas Fontecchio allows the team the option of using his salary in a trade at some point

[contract]

You don't have to agree to take back garbage to move Duncan. We could have told the Pistons to find another landing spot for Fontecchio.

If you think Duncan opted out without assurance and plan in coordination with Miami FO, then I have a new crypto coin I'd like to sell you.

Then we need a new front office. Duncan didn't opt out to help us, he opted out to help himself. They can take the sign and trade on our terms or they can take his $9 million and pound sand.

And that $9 million comes with offsets, and Duncan's minimum as a 7 year vet is $3 million, so even if he sign elsewhere for the minimum we save money.

[contract]

If you think Duncan opted out without assurance and plan in coordination with Miami FO, then I have a new crypto coin I'd like to sell you.

Then we need a new front office. Duncan didn't opt out to help us, he opted out to help himself. They can take the sign and trade on our terms or they can take his $9 million and pound sand.

Or Duncan never opts out because the Heat take your stance. You're forced to cut him. Owe him nearly 10 million. Have it count against your tax sheet and have no mechanisms to get rid of that dead money. Whereas Fontecchio allows the team the option of using his salary in a trade at some point

viewtopic.php?p=119231322#p119231322

"... that $9 million comes with offsets, and Duncan's minimum as a 7 year vet is $3 million, so even if he sign elsewhere for the minimum we save money."

[contract]

Fans really need to start expecting more than the bare minimum from our front office.

If Rando Roleplayer is extorting you, then you need a new front office.

[Dmcdani6]

How could JJJ be one of the best players on the Olympic practice squad, and then just be a dud?

JJJ might have a resurgence this season, just sayin.

What about Cody Martin as a flyer? Take up a two-way spot?

[fincane30]

Then we need a new front office. Duncan didn't opt out to help us, he opted out to help himself. They can take the sign and trade on our terms or they can take his $9 million and pound sand.

Or Duncan never opts out because the Heat take your stance. You're forced to cut him. Owe him nearly 10 million. Have it count against your tax sheet and have no mechanisms to get rid of that dead money. Whereas Fontecchio allows the team the option of using his salary in a trade at some point

viewtopic.php?p=119231322#p119231322

"... that $9 million comes with offsets, and Duncan's minimum as a 7 year vet is $3 million, so even if he sign elsewhere for the minimum we save money."

The FO decided that a salary to potentially move was worth more than the offset savings as they would be operating as an over the cap team no matter what and need smaller contracts that are moveable. Fontecchio is an expiring that doesn't put you into the tax. It doesn't muddy up the books for next offseason. For guys that they would deem expendable/salary dumps you've only got Love and now Fontecchio on small expiring deals.

[greg4012]

You don't have to agree to take back garbage to move Duncan. We could have told the Pistons to find another landing spot for Fontecchio.

If you think Duncan opted out without assurance and plan in coordination with Miami FO, then I have a new crypto coin I'd like to sell you.

Then we need a new front office. Duncan didn't opt out to help us, he opted out to help himself. They can take the sign and trade on our terms or they can take his $9 million and pound sand.

Sweet

[3ammy3uck3ts]

There are varying levels of critique one can offer for the FO. The extremes is what gets many of us 3ammy. Just saying buddy… there are gray areas in the middle. If you take a moment, you could see that many of the decisions or non-decisions made, there was logic and rationale that led to that decision by the FO. No need to react in such extremes! We have a great management team on the Heat! Somewhat timid the last few years, sure, but the times they were not, the outcome was not to our liking anyways (Rozier). In others, it worked out great! (Dame). Then you have a bunch of in-between stuff where arguments can be made for or against them. Despite all that, I still would not trade our FO for any other in the league!!

It’s the recent timidness that does it for me and shows the massive shift in the FOs ability from the past though. That’s my main complaint, it’s not the “blow it up and tank” stuff battery is claiming to be my biggest complaint. Actually this offseason is the first time I’ve even considered it.

It’s the timidness and lack of urgency. 2020 we get to the finals and we come back the following season with a worse roster, 2022 ECF and come back with a worse roster, 2023 finals and come back with a worse roster. In season were not showing urgency and making moves needed to further better our chances. These last 2 runs we made were polar opposites of each other but each time you knew we just needed a little more. Another part of it is the refusal to trade Tyler for a legitimate difference maker, off the top of my head we refused to trade him for Harden, Mitchell, and Kyrie. We told Lowry he was untouchable in Kyrie trade talks. That is just wild to me, especially considering Tyler was/is not ready to contribute on that level yet and odds are will never reach the level of those guys. You give Jimmy Bam and Spo Kyrie during those runs and good luck to whoever they’re playing against.

That is not the Riley/FO I grew up on, they were cutthroat and would do whatever it took to win a championship. Would we have won a championship had we made the moves and been active to get a 3rd star? Idk but I like our chances and I would’ve liked to come out of the Jimmy era thinking we did everything we could have done to win it all. Instead it feels like we just recycled whatever try hard undrafted guys we could find and wished for the best.

I think that is all pretty fair criticism but if it’s mentioned here comes a barrage from 10 different posters about how ungrateful I am and Bam Stan this and that etc. Last I checked championships are the goal, especially when it comes to this organization and if you don’t win it you reassess and figure out what can take you over the top.

But there’s my rant and that’s all I’ll say on it I’m not going to get into another back and forth with several different people at the same time.

[greg4012]

If you think Duncan opted out without assurance and plan in coordination with Miami FO, then I have a new crypto coin I'd like to sell you.

Then we need a new front office. Duncan didn't opt out to help us, he opted out to help himself. They can take the sign and trade on our terms or they can take his $9 million and pound sand.

And that $9 million comes with offsets, and Duncan's minimum as a 7 year vet is $3 million, so even if he sign elsewhere for the minimum we save money.

You're back in the fantasyland where Duncan opts out in spite of his own interests for ?????????


May I interest you in some FARTcoin?

[SoFlaKingReal]

I just realized this Fontecchio guy took Alec Burks roster spot.

[EMC5466]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=Pc6F0Q6Zl4Kt0Lo9NIo_Aw

[greg4012]

Whitmore vs Kuminga:

Combine height: 6’5.75 - 6’7 (both currently listed at 6’7 now.

Wingspan: 6’8.5 - 6’11

Weight: 235 - 217.2

Vertical: 40.5 - 38

Basically a wash all things considered.

Current stats/numbers:

Age: 20 - 22

3pt%: 36% (4 attempts) - 33% (2 attempts)

Reb%: 10.4 - 9.9

Per 36 for those who care:

Whitmore: 22.3-7-2-1-1 on 18.3 FGA 55.5TS%

Kuminga: 20.5-6.6-3-1-1 on 15.2 FGA 58.3TS%

Kuminga slightly more efficient likely due to a higher free throw rate.

Contract: 2/$9M for Whitmore - 3/$90+ (reportedly for Kuminga looking for $30M+ a year with 3 years being the minimum requirement of a sign and trade)

Conclusion: similar players size wise, personality wise, and numbers wise. Both are black holes and overly confident in themselves (which can be a good thing if you reel it in). Whitmore is the better shooter while Kuminga is better at getting to the line. Age, contract situation, and shooting ability makes me favor Whitmore pretty easily. If we take Kuminga at 3/$90M and he sucks we’re stuck with a bad contract, if we get Whitmore and he sucks we just don’t resign him. If he’s good he’s a cheap cost controlled rotation player for the next 2 years with a high ceiling.

Honestly if it wasn’t for the contract situation I wouldn’t care which one you gave me but if we’re going to take on a developmental project at the 3 there is a much safer answer here.

They both DO have all star potential but will they be able to put it all together is the main question.

are there rumblings of Houston wanting to ship out Cam Whitmore?

He's definitely the better upside play between the 2 considering hes on his rookie deal for 2 more seasons.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=Pc6F0Q6Zl4Kt0Lo9NIo_Aw

Miami bound. I’m pretty sure Cleveland would have to move mountains to get him