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Official Brandon Ingram Thread

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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#941 » by VanWest82 » Tue Jul 1, 2025 6:10 pm

Mattatron wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:We essentially traded a 1st for rights to negotiate exclusively with Ingram. A 2+1 deal. 1st year of deal will be an adjustment period, still figuring out roster. 2nd year will be expiring and talks of potentially leaving.

This deal was 1 year too early. But falls into their maxing out contracts for trading instead of being more flexible. Everyone always forgets when these contracts amount to little to nothing though.

It was still a good trade imo. Ingram is a psuedo all star talent. There are only so many of those guys, and the shorter term deal now lines up with the rest of the shorter rebuild timeline, so even though it's an overpay it isn't crippling from a team building or potential reset perspective all while allowing us to better evaluate the rest of our roster within the context of a functional team (unlike last few years where we just didn't have enough good players).

As it turns out, that '26 Pacers FRP will be valuable especially now that they have it back, and so one could argue the price was steeper than we thought, but two weeks ago Pacers looked like they had a chance to not only win the title but get back there next year. It was a great bet all the way up until Hali blew out his achilles.



Every team has like 1 or 2 pseudo all stars. Ingram is a 1x all star, and his nomination was like 4 years ago. Once doesn't count. This deal was Nonsens from the beginning. He's like RJ just with a Jumper but without the drive to the basket.

Would RJ and Ingram be one person, now that's a player.... but this is garbage

Once absolutely counts...as one. He also won MIP. You can't just say that didn't happen because you don't like the guy.

Look, it's an overpay. If we'd traded for Ingram and re-signed him for 10M AAV, everyone itt would be claiming Raps FO had re-gained their touch. The trade was solid and the contract is rough, but per my comment above the shorter term nature of it makes it ok. It's akin to the initial contract Fred signed with Houston. Big overpay but reasonable term so you can add competence to a roster that badly needs it so your young vets can continue to grow on a functional team. Think of it as an investment in Scottie, RJ, Quickley, Dick, JKW, CMB, etc.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#942 » by Scase » Tue Jul 1, 2025 6:12 pm

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Scase wrote:Being negative about the outlook of the team doesn't impact the rest of my life, it's called compartmentalization lol. I had things to be positive about the team over the last couple of years, but as they continue to not pan out, and we continue to make stupid moves why should I manufacture optimism for something that doesn't deserve it?


Then don't. But manufacturing TOO much negativity, as in it being basically all you do, is technically against board policy these past dozen years. It's something to keep in mind.


I still think GD has room to get better, JKW seems interesting, and I still have hope for Scottie to be a defensive stalwart. But the team has nothing that screams any sort of potential to even be a deep playoff team. And I don't mean that in the sense of this exact roster, but the possible projections of the players are all kinda "meh". No one has any real upside beyond like a solid to good starter.

Having a healthy team will result in a better season for sure, but it's not some panacea, nor is health something intrinsic to our team.


GD has some room to improve. We'll see if he can adapt his physicality, improve on D and figure out how to shoot against close-outs. Scottie's D is the main thing to be optimistic about him, for sure.

Yeah, we need something to happen for us in order to take the next step. Health will be a big deal. We lost Quick for 50 games or so last year, give or take the tanking. He's played 64, 78, 81, 68 and 33 games in his career. I'd lean on that 70ish games from him in an average season. And that's a 17/6 player who can shoot the 3. That's HUGE for our offense. And then we have whatever we get from BI, and whatever we get from our rook, and whatever we get from improvement out of our guys in their second season.

We're gonna be a decent team. How we elevate our ceiling is the next step, but we have moves to make, potentially. So we'll have to see what the FO does. But not every team has ultimate title potential. You need luck. You need a certain threshold of talent. And you can be a decent FO and not produce something magical because the opportunity wasn't there. But we'll see with this squad. We should be above average at either end of the floor, and that's not far different from how things started with the best stretch in franchise history.

It's worth remembering that we gave up Bosh and had very little... but we'd acquired Lowry and DeRozan, and they gave us something. We eventually got Jonas, and then we got Anunoby and Siakam and that worked out well for us... from the kinds of picks we'll have access to with this team. So again, we'll have to see what our opportunities become going forward.

Hey man, you wanna talk about rampant negativity, go take a gander in the 2 "Masai is fired" threads, hell I'm one of like 4 people in there NOT claiming the sky is falling. I also listed at least 3 players I am still overal positive on, I used to be positive on Mogbo, but with CMB I don't think there's much to that anymore as he's just a better version of Mogbo, so those minutes will likely be very limited. I have been a staunch defender of GD, Darko, and many other situations people love to be negative about, but that positivity gets ignored because I call out overwhelmingly mediocre moves we've made as those are the more notable ones. Doesn't mean the positivity doesn't exist, BI is the hot topic right now, if GD was popping off I would be singing his praises with just as much fervour. But the reality is, the team has more negatives than positives, so by its very nature will result in more talk.

IQ being back will be a huge boon to the team, I'm not saying we're going to be an awful team next year, I'm saying we are going to be comfortably treadmill. And just because that is a net positive compared to the prior few years, doesn't make it intrinsically positive. Kick in the nuts or a kick in the shin, you're still getting kicked you know?

Opportunities are there for every team, what matters is the quality and likelihood of them panning out. Both Lowry and Siakam are moonshots that are the exceptions to the rule, you know this better than most. OG was a lot of luck that he fell to us and so many people were afraid of his injury. DD required a lotto pick, JV required a top 5 pick, both things we are very unlikely to have moving forward, which is exactly what I have been saying.

This team as constructed is not bad, but it IS mid. Mid teams are the absolute worst place to be, not good enough to accoplish anything, and not bad enough to balance out that poor product with bright eyed blue chip prospects. That is my biggest complaint about this trajectory, not that everything is objectively awful, but that this pathway in NBA history, typically leads nowhere. Bulls, Hawks, Kings, and the list goes on and on, that is where we are headed and I see no reason to be happy about that.

Maybe some big trades come down the line and shift that trajectory, that would be swell, but maybe BI plays like 45 games a season for the next two years and bends us over a barrel picking up that PO. One of those is based more in reality than the other, one has history, the other is just pure hope. And that's cool, I'm not telling anyone they aren't allowed to hope, I'm saying this team has done nothing to give me hope.

If that is negativity, then so be it, but I've been calling out the bad moves we've been making over the last few years and was told I was just being negative, only for most of them to become reality. I've also been wrong with stuff like Ochai, and I've owned that and have been happy to be wrong, but overwhelmingly through the past few years there have been a lot of bad moves that have led to bad outcomes, and I see this no differently.

EDIT : Just saw the Sandro signing, solid pick up, something to be positive about :wink:
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#943 » by tsherkin » Tue Jul 1, 2025 10:15 pm

Scase wrote:IQ being back will be a huge boon to the team, I'm not saying we're going to be an awful team next year, I'm saying we are going to be comfortably treadmill. And just because that is a net positive compared to the prior few years, doesn't make it intrinsically positive. Kick in the nuts or a kick in the shin, you're still getting kicked you know?


Being a net-positive team is a useful step forward unless you can only be pleased with contending seasons.

Opportunities are there for every team, what matters is the quality and likelihood of them panning out. Both Lowry and Siakam are moonshots that are the exceptions to the rule, you know this better than most. OG was a lot of luck that he fell to us and so many people were afraid of his injury. DD required a lotto pick, JV required a top 5 pick, both things we are very unlikely to have moving forward, which is exactly what I have been saying.


Yes, a lot of luck goes into contention. But we're never going to sign someone who will change our fortunes in FA. The lottery is only so useful at doing it, and no one wants to be ass-tastic for years on end. We've played that game, and it got us nowhere of consequence even when we got Bosh. So obviously we need to pursue other avenues to try and improve.

Kvetching that we are "mid" a season after we won 30 games and 2 after we won 25 is literally whining that we're improving, and that's not really a valid stance. At some point, this is where you end up when you're rebuilding. You're aiming at a year of slightly better than .500, and have to make follow-on moves to keep improving, hoping you can find a way to upgrade talent.

It is what it is. And the season hasn't even begun, so it doesn't REALLY merit a "sky is falling, we'll treadmill forever!" type of response. We're not even halfway through the offseason yet: we don't know nearly enough at this point.

And, as you said, now we have any kind of backup center with some size and shooting, which affords us a few new options on offense. Plus, he's a good rebounder at either end, if a bit bleh on D. Perfect reserve, though. Kind of like KO with better rebounding, as it were.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#944 » by Scase » Tue Jul 1, 2025 11:18 pm

tsherkin wrote:
Scase wrote:IQ being back will be a huge boon to the team, I'm not saying we're going to be an awful team next year, I'm saying we are going to be comfortably treadmill. And just because that is a net positive compared to the prior few years, doesn't make it intrinsically positive. Kick in the nuts or a kick in the shin, you're still getting kicked you know?


Being a net-positive team is a useful step forward unless you can only be pleased with contending seasons.

Opportunities are there for every team, what matters is the quality and likelihood of them panning out. Both Lowry and Siakam are moonshots that are the exceptions to the rule, you know this better than most. OG was a lot of luck that he fell to us and so many people were afraid of his injury. DD required a lotto pick, JV required a top 5 pick, both things we are very unlikely to have moving forward, which is exactly what I have been saying.


Yes, a lot of luck goes into contention. But we're never going to sign someone who will change our fortunes in FA. The lottery is only so useful at doing it, and no one wants to be ass-tastic for years on end. We've played that game, and it got us nowhere of consequence even when we got Bosh. So obviously we need to pursue other avenues to try and improve.

Kvetching that we are "mid" a season after we won 30 games and 2 after we won 25 is literally whining that we're improving, and that's not really a valid stance. At some point, this is where you end up when you're rebuilding. You're aiming at a year of slightly better than .500, and have to make follow-on moves to keep improving, hoping you can find a way to upgrade talent.

It is what it is. And the season hasn't even begun, so it doesn't REALLY merit a "sky is falling, we'll treadmill forever!" type of response. We're not even halfway through the offseason yet: we don't know nearly enough at this point.

And, as you said, now we have any kind of backup center with some size and shooting, which affords us a few new options on offense. Plus, he's a good rebounder at either end, if a bit bleh on D. Perfect reserve, though. Kind of like KO with better rebounding, as it were.

If this team was primarily staffed with guys that were between 2-4 years of experience as the main cogs, I would absolutely share the rosy disposition, but that's not the case. It's anchored by 2 guys that are going into years 10, and 2 more going into years 6 and 7. This isn't organic growth, these are artificial improvements for the short term, it's a team that would struggle to be .500 with guys who have PLENTY of NBA experience, and we added another guy with 9 years of experience to make it a likely playoff team.

That doesn't have a high ceiling, THAT is why it is mid and treadmill. Gauging the upper limits of this roster doesn't require 3 years of data, this isn't a situation where there are any real unknowns. RJ isn't going to magically learn how to defend or be efficient, Scottie isn't going to be a good offensive player, BI isn't going to suddenly be an ironman, Jak isn't learning how to shoot a 3 (sandro is a nice partial solution to this), and so on. It is a team of "they are, what they are" players, so it's pretty easy to assume what you will get out of that. The only unknown here is how they play together, but you don't need to be a quantum physicist to gather that a team with little to no shooting, will struggle to gain any real traction.

I'm happy to do a mid and end of season check in to discuss how they are doing, but it still doesn't change the long term outlook unless one of the players we have (likely more than 1) take some massive step forward, otherwise it's relatively predictable.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#945 » by OhCanada » Wed Jul 2, 2025 12:21 am

People are forgetting or maybe Raptors fans just don't know because he's been in the West just how good Ingram is. He's gonna be so good with Scottie. You know those outlet passes that Lowry used to do, that Scottie does when he grabs the board then throws it down the court to a leaking player, those passes that Siakam saw Scottie doing tried a few times failed miserably then gave up. Yeah Ingram's better than all of them at that. He's a better playmaker than Scottie. He's taller than Scottie, longer than Scottie, shoots better than Scottie.

Having Ingram on this team makes it so teams can't load up on Barnes. In fact if teams don't load up on Ingram he will score. He was one of the best isolation scorers in the league last year. If he gets his man in single coverage its usually a bucket. This is the best scorer and best playmaker Barnes has every played with. Its going to be a dynamic duo.

I think acquiring Ingram while we were tanking came as a bit of a shock. People were so focused on the tank and the Flagg sweepstakes that they kinda swept this under the rug. Its a big deal.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#946 » by LoveMyRaps » Wed Jul 2, 2025 7:33 pm

In Masai We Trust :meditate:
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#947 » by tsherkin » Wed Jul 2, 2025 7:44 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:https://www.instagram.com/reel/DLndk1Kynaf/?igsh=OWc1OXFieHA3M2Zt


You still have to be efficient. Their discussion centered around the ability to get shots under clock pressure and the like. The best scorers in the league have always been better than their peers in terms of efficiency. Shai, their focus, does a lot of things besides just the mid-range. It's an important counter, it remains relevant in today's game... perhaps even more so when you consider the emphasis on running guys off the 3pt line and walling off the paint.

Lebron was certainly right that there is only so much you can emphasize 3pt volume. We've seen it be problematic for Boston at times because their main scorer can't really get it done unless his 3ball is falling like a lot of contemporary scorers. You need counters unless all you're after is seasonal average efficiency.

But if you're hoping for high-octane offense, you can't really have your focal scorer be a pure-midrange guy rocking league-average efficiency unless he's also a fairly significant playmaker. Something to ponder. There are degree of relevance to stuff like this.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#948 » by Tor_Raps » Wed Jul 2, 2025 7:47 pm

Has Ingram been cleared for any content yet? Hes treading on the Achilles recovery timelines here
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#949 » by anotherhomer » Wed Jul 2, 2025 7:53 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:Has Ingram been cleared for any content yet? Hes treading on the Achilles recovery timelines here


technically, he could had come back in feb
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#950 » by LoveMyRaps » Wed Jul 2, 2025 7:58 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:Has Ingram been cleared for any content yet? Hes treading on the Achilles recovery timelines here


I think Bobby just mentioned he's been training at the OVO Athletic Center all summer.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#951 » by Duffman100 » Wed Jul 2, 2025 7:58 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:Has Ingram been cleared for any content yet? Hes treading on the Achilles recovery timelines here


Imagine he tored his achilles and it's been under wraps this entire time :lol:
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#952 » by Tor_Raps » Wed Jul 2, 2025 8:00 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Has Ingram been cleared for any content yet? Hes treading on the Achilles recovery timelines here


I think Bobby just mentioned he's been training at the OVO Athletic Center all summer.


He was training even when he was sitting out games. I want to hear or see him playing in runs with contact lol.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#953 » by Psubs » Wed Jul 2, 2025 8:09 pm

anotherhomer wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Has Ingram been cleared for any content yet? Hes treading on the Achilles recovery timelines here


technically, he could had come back in feb


I guess insurance covered his salary, had he come back then it wouldn't have.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#954 » by LoveMyRaps » Wed Jul 2, 2025 9:40 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Has Ingram been cleared for any content yet? Hes treading on the Achilles recovery timelines here


I think Bobby just mentioned he's been training at the OVO Athletic Center all summer.


He was training even when he was sitting out games. I want to hear or see him playing in runs with contact lol.


Yeah same. But I’m not worried. He’ll be ready for preseason.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#955 » by LoveMyRaps » Wed Jul 2, 2025 11:02 pm

A preview of things to come...

Read on Twitter
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#956 » by Tripod » Wed Jul 2, 2025 11:23 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:A preview of things to come...

Read on Twitter

I just hope people are ready that there will be a bit of cannibalism of stats among our guys.

There is only 1 ball and we will only score so much, rebound so much, or assist so much.

So we should see a decrease in some counting stats from our current starters, especially in games where they all play.

The flipside is that we have depth when injuries occur, and when healthy, teams can't zero in on 1 guy. We need to exploit the matchup advantages each game and as long as guys remain unselfish and it leads to wins, who cares.

Adding our most natural scorer is certainly going to open things for others.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#957 » by Duffman100 » Thu Jul 3, 2025 2:20 pm

Where's our media at? We need someone to ask for an update on his status.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#958 » by tsherkin » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:13 pm

Tripod wrote:I just hope people are ready that there will be a bit of cannibalism of stats among our guys.

There is only 1 ball and we will only score so much, rebound so much, or assist so much.


Yep. But if the end result is efficacy and wins, people should be okay with it because Lebron isn't on our team. On his teams, no one ever pays attention to possession limitations on stats, lol.

I don't really care if RJ scores 20+ or if BI hits 25 or whatever, so long as the net effect is that we're running good offense and doing well on the boards.

I'm excited to see what having BI on the team looks like, even if he doesn't have his best season. Just BEING there, drawing the D, is a big deal. Like Wizards Jordan (but actually better).
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#959 » by Rapsfan07 » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:13 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:A preview of things to come...

Read on Twitter


Ingram's been a legit player.

He's going to surprise a lot of people who aren't used to watching him.

He'll probably be the best player we've had on this roster since Lowry.
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Re: Official Brandon Ingram Thread 

Post#960 » by MEDIC » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:24 pm

He cooked us the last few years. 36 point game in 2023. 41 point game in 2024.

It made me take notice for sure.

I rememeber years ago thinking "this scrawny Ingram kid has no chance. Too weak. Too frail".

He proved me wrong & earned a ton of respect.
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