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WuTang_OG wrote:And Darko deserves credit both on his improved mechanics and improving his role. Last season's numbers were his best ever as already pointed out, not by coincidence lol.
tsherkin wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:yes, you are missing it. He not only improved his mechanics, he jumped his 3pt% from 21% with us when he arrived to 40%. Not only that, if you want to use this bogus rookie season baseline, he jumped from 35% to 40% while also taking the same attempts (4). Um, what else? His efg% went to almost 60% last season vs from his rookie year of 53%. So yeah, Darko definitely had an impact overall shooting, both mechanics and role.
Rookie season: 41.2% of his 3s from the corner, 45.7% therefrom; 27.7% ATB
Second season: 45.5% of his 3s from the corner, but only 36.5% from there; 22.5% ATB
Third season: 54.2% of his 3s from the corner, 41.6% from there; 38.5% ATB on 1.7 FGA/g
So yeah, you can make an argument about that if you like, but to me, the corner is a larger deal and that level of improvement suggests "hot streak" more than it does immediate improvement. Of course, if he does it again this year, I will be compelled to see the alternate POV, heh.
tsherkin wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:And Darko deserves credit both on his improved mechanics and improving his role. Last season's numbers were his best ever as already pointed out, not by coincidence lol.
Well, no. His ATB numbers were flukey high, for sure, and we'll see if that was actual change or not. But like 55% of his 3s came from the corner, from which he could already shoot, and actually WASN'T his best shooting performance. That had a lot to do with it.
GLF wrote:Wow that above the break improvement is huge. Now I don’t know if 38-39% is considered good from ATB, but being a good ATB shooter is way more valuable than the corner, so seeing that leap is nice. Happy for Ochai, he’s really turned it around. And we did see videos of Dark working with him on his form, more so in his lower body than anything else. So I do think Darko deserves some credit, but I always believe you have to give the players majority of the credit. They’re the ones putting in the work.
I think it just doesn’t look as grim for Shead and Mogbo when it comes to eventually being decent shooters if they keep working hard at it compared to what one would have thought when they came in. That’s a win to me. Excited to see where their careers go specifically pertaining to shooting. For some the hard work pays off and for others it doesn’t. I hope at least one of Shead or Mogbo if not both are apart of the first group. It won’t happen over a couple off-seasons though, it will take time. Gotta be patient with young players.
WuTang_OG wrote:Ya, you are spinning your wheels for nothing.
The point stands his overall shooting numbers were his best ever. Doesn't matter if he took more 3's from the corner. Lol.
tsherkin wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:Ya, you are spinning your wheels for nothing.
More like you're jumping the gun, I think. You're talking about a sample of like 128 3PA. It's pretty volatile.The point stands his overall shooting numbers were his best ever. Doesn't matter if he took more 3's from the corner. Lol.
Yes, it does. It's daft to suggest otherwise. He was already a very good corner shooter and took even more shots from the corner than usual. Of COURSE that influenced his overall percentage. The hell?
tsherkin wrote:GLF wrote:Wow that above the break improvement is huge. Now I don’t know if 38-39% is considered good from ATB, but being a good ATB shooter is way more valuable than the corner, so seeing that leap is nice. Happy for Ochai, he’s really turned it around. And we did see videos of Dark working with him on his form, more so in his lower body than anything else. So I do think Darko deserves some credit, but I always believe you have to give the players majority of the credit. They’re the ones putting in the work.
If it holds, and to a lesser extent if he can up-scale the volume, then yes, that would be quite impressive. But we've seen flashes like that from others as well, so I won't really trust one season at the expense of two. What he does this year will matter more.I think it just doesn’t look as grim for Shead and Mogbo when it comes to eventually being decent shooters if they keep working hard at it compared to what one would have thought when they came in. That’s a win to me. Excited to see where their careers go specifically pertaining to shooting. For some the hard work pays off and for others it doesn’t. I hope at least one of Shead or Mogbo if not both are apart of the first group. It won’t happen over a couple off-seasons though, it will take time. Gotta be patient with young players.
Shead may have potential (as a shooter, I mean). He didn't really show it last year, but he was a rookie, so he deserves a little patience. And Ochai certainly deserves some time to show if that was real or just a flash, yes. Mogbo... needs to worry about finishing at the rim before I care a lot about his 3pt shooting.
WuTang_OG wrote:It's laughable you aren't crediting the coach where I have given you plenty of examples of how he has helped. Letting him shoot more corner 3's actually benefits my point of how he helped him.
GLF wrote:
One thing we do agree on is I care way more about Mogbo learning to finish in the paint than I do about his 3s. That would be secondary to me right now.
WuTang_OG wrote:tsherkin wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:Ya, you are spinning your wheels for nothing.
More like you're jumping the gun, I think. You're talking about a sample of like 128 3PA. It's pretty volatile.The point stands his overall shooting numbers were his best ever. Doesn't matter if he took more 3's from the corner. Lol.
Yes, it does. It's daft to suggest otherwise. He was already a very good corner shooter and took even more shots from the corner than usual. Of COURSE that influenced his overall percentage. The hell?
It's laughable you aren't crediting the coach where I have given you plenty of examples of how he has helped. Letting him shoot more corner 3's actually benefits my point of how he helped him. The ATB is great too - this was a step, let's see it continue. But to argue that Darko didn't have anything to do with this when quotes and photos suggest is flat out weird
tsherkin wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:It's laughable you aren't crediting the coach where I have given you plenty of examples of how he has helped. Letting him shoot more corner 3's actually benefits my point of how he helped him.
That's a goalpost move on your part; we were talking about shooting ability. He didn't shoot better from the corner, he just shot MORE from there. It was a sound coaching decision but it didn't reflect improvement on Ochai's part, which is what we were discussing. Anyway, I think that's about enough of this. We'll see what Ochai looks like this upcoming season.GLF wrote:
One thing we do agree on is I care way more about Mogbo learning to finish in the paint than I do about his 3s. That would be secondary to me right now.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love if he could capably hit from the corners to add some spacing, but we should have other priorities with him is all I meant. He was ABYSMALLY bad at hitting shots from far closer areas, which was of much greater concern.
That's a goalpost move on your part; we were talking about shooting ability. He didn't shoot better from the corner, he just shot MORE from there. It was a sound coaching decision but it didn't reflect improvement on Ochai's part, which is what we were discussing. Anyway, I think that's about enough of this. We'll see what Ochai looks like this upcoming season.
GLF wrote:Clearly his other coach wasn’t doing that enough.
tsherkin wrote:Mogbo... needs to worry about finishing at the rim before I care a lot about his 3pt shooting.
tsherkin wrote:GLF wrote:Wow that above the break improvement is huge. Now I don’t know if 38-39% is considered good from ATB, but being a good ATB shooter is way more valuable than the corner, so seeing that leap is nice. Happy for Ochai, he’s really turned it around. And we did see videos of Dark working with him on his form, more so in his lower body than anything else. So I do think Darko deserves some credit, but I always believe you have to give the players majority of the credit. They’re the ones putting in the work.
If it holds, and to a lesser extent if he can up-scale the volume, then yes, that would be quite impressive. But we've seen flashes like that from others as well, so I won't really trust one season at the expense of two. What he does this year will matter more.I think it just doesn’t look as grim for Shead and Mogbo when it comes to eventually being decent shooters if they keep working hard at it compared to what one would have thought when they came in. That’s a win to me. Excited to see where their careers go specifically pertaining to shooting. For some the hard work pays off and for others it doesn’t. I hope at least one of Shead or Mogbo if not both are apart of the first group. It won’t happen over a couple off-seasons though, it will take time. Gotta be patient with young players.
Shead may have potential (as a shooter, I mean). He didn't really show it last year, but he was a rookie, so he deserves a little patience. And Ochai certainly deserves some time to show if that was real or just a flash, yes. Mogbo... needs to worry about finishing at the rim before I care a lot about his 3pt shooting.
RoteSchroder wrote:Disagree with this, Mogbo doesn’t have the best touch and is affected by contests. I’m fine with him just dunking at the rim if he improves his 3 point shooting. A large Bruce Bowen who can be a connector on O is more valuable to me than a Thaddeus Young/Vanderbilt type.
PoundTown wrote:If you watched Ochai in college you know his calling card was his shot. He was one of the best 3 point shooters in college that year, along with Braun and lead the Jayhawks to a championship. I don't think last year was a fluke at all, just needed to regain his confidence.
tsherkin wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:high character and work ethic bodes well for him
Work ethic doesn't always overcome shooting deficits, but we'll see what happens. It's definitely one of those "I'll believe it when I see it" situations for me at this point. Especially with such an obvious dearth to start. And it took Millsap like a decade to get there, so...
OAKLEY_2 wrote:tsherkin wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:high character and work ethic bodes well for him
Work ethic doesn't always overcome shooting deficits, but we'll see what happens. It's definitely one of those "I'll believe it when I see it" situations for me at this point. Especially with such an obvious dearth to start. And it took Millsap like a decade to get there, so...
Look at Poetl he has crafted a floater that has jumper range! CMB actually has shooting form and made 71 per cent of his free throws. Maybe he develops 35 per cent on low volume. OG's spot up shooting sure took a while.
tsherkin wrote:OAKLEY_2 wrote:tsherkin wrote:
Work ethic doesn't always overcome shooting deficits, but we'll see what happens. It's definitely one of those "I'll believe it when I see it" situations for me at this point. Especially with such an obvious dearth to start. And it took Millsap like a decade to get there, so...
Look at Poetl he has crafted a floater that has jumper range! CMB actually has shooting form and made 71 per cent of his free throws. Maybe he develops 35 per cent on low volume. OG's spot up shooting sure took a while.
I'm not saying it's impossible (wherefore "we'll see what happens," lol).
But I remain skeptical, because everyone and their mom is always trying to develop their shooting, and only so many guys do it... and in a lot of cases, it takes like 7-10 years for it to happen... and which point, it's somewhat moot to us unless a guy has demonstrated enough other value to be kept around. So we will see.
Would be awesome if he did, and of course set shooting from the corner is easier to develop than ATB, and easier still than off-dribble shooting, for sure.
grant101 wrote:I agree with this. I would add that I think there's a fairly decent chance that CMB gives you enough outside of 3pt shooting to want to impact winning, thus giving him the time & opportunities to develop a passable corner 3. Physicality and a smarts goes a long way, particularly with his frame.