Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[EvanZ]

FWIW, Pistons reporter saying GS holding up the deal, I imagine looking for more. Would think Ellis over Saric

If we get both Ellis and Carter that would be a steal. I might even throw in a 26 1st lottery protected.

That's crazy man.

If the Kings are willing to pay JK and give up a second year player on a rookie deal, Warriors don't need to add a FRP in a loaded draft.

Carter is unproven and Ellis is just a role player.

Praying the Kings employ an analytics staff consisting of people who think like you do.

[DonaldSanders]

Praying the Kings employ an analytics staff consisting of people who think like you do.

If anything it's Vivek as our ace in the hole, he is the biggest Kings boat anchor. I can imagine him wanting to 'steal' Kuminga away from us and have him be an all star to show up Lacob and prove he is smart.

[whatisacenter]

If we get both Ellis and Carter that would be a steal. I might even throw in a 26 1st lottery protected.

That's crazy man.

If the Kings are willing to pay JK and give up a second year player on a rookie deal, Warriors don't need to add a FRP in a loaded draft.

Carter is unproven and Ellis is just a role player.

Praying the Kings employ an analytics staff consisting of people who think like you do.

Wait, you would be willing to add a FRP to JK for Carter and Ellis?

[wco81]

If we get both Ellis and Carter that would be a steal. I might even throw in a 26 1st lottery protected.

That's crazy man.

If the Kings are willing to pay JK and give up a second year player on a rookie deal, Warriors don't need to add a FRP in a loaded draft.

Carter is unproven and Ellis is just a role player.

Praying the Kings employ an analytics staff consisting of people who think like you do.

Yeah go tweet that, an FRP if the Kings throw in Ellis in addition to Carter, who's a second-year 6-2 guard, already 23, shot 37/29/59 in his rookie year.

Ask why the Kings are wiling to give up on him already.

Not like the Kings won a lot of games last year and these two had big roles with them.

[wco81]

That's crazy man.

If the Kings are willing to pay JK and give up a second year player on a rookie deal, Warriors don't need to add a FRP in a loaded draft.

Carter is unproven and Ellis is just a role player.

Praying the Kings employ an analytics staff consisting of people who think like you do.

Wait, you would be willing to add a FRP to JK for Carter and Ellis?

Ridiculous, saw some Youtube videos and has a fixed idea on his mind about Carter. Just like he capes for Moody all this time.

[Jester_]

Ellis is really good.

Steph-Ellis-Jimmy-Dray-Horford would be

[Onus]

FWIW, Pistons reporter saying GS holding up the deal, I imagine looking for more. Would think Ellis over Saric

If we get both Ellis and Carter that would be a steal. I might even throw in a 26 1st lottery protected.

That's crazy man.

If the Kings are willing to pay JK and give up a second year player on a rookie deal, Warriors don't need to add a FRP in a loaded draft.

Carter is unproven and Ellis is just a role player.

Carter and Ellis will both be 16 games players. They both can be elite defenders while not being a negative on offense. Our 26 1st should be on the high 20s and with nil shouldn’t be all that valuable.

[Crazy-Canuck]

That's crazy man.

If the Kings are willing to pay JK and give up a second year player on a rookie deal, Warriors don't need to add a FRP in a loaded draft.

Carter is unproven and Ellis is just a role player.

Praying the Kings employ an analytics staff consisting of people who think like you do.

Yeah go tweet that, an FRP if the Kings throw in Ellis in addition to Carter, who's a second-year 6-2 guard, already 23, shot 37/29/59 in his rookie year.

Ask why the Kings are wiling to give up on him already.

Not like the Kings won a lot of games last year and these two had big roles with them.

Vivak has a type: sabonis, lavine, derozan, monk, and now kuminga.

Carter and ellis are the archtypes that help you win games in the playoffs. They can be stars in their role. We have have our stars, we need better role players. Kuminga believes he's a centerpiece. But if the goal is to win another chip, guys like Ellis will be more important in the playoffs (unless steph and Jimmy get hurt).

[EvanZ]

Praying the Kings employ an analytics staff consisting of people who think like you do.

Wait, you would be willing to add a FRP to JK for Carter and Ellis?

Ridiculous, saw some Youtube videos and has a fixed idea on his mind about Carter. Just like he capes for Moody all this time.

I am not high on Carter bro. I am very high on Ellis. This isn't hard. It would be a huge steal for us.

[wco81]

Praying the Kings employ an analytics staff consisting of people who think like you do.

Yeah go tweet that, an FRP if the Kings throw in Ellis in addition to Carter, who's a second-year 6-2 guard, already 23, shot 37/29/59 in his rookie year.

Ask why the Kings are wiling to give up on him already.

Not like the Kings won a lot of games last year and these two had big roles with them.

Vivak has a type: sabonis, lavine, derozan, monk, and now kuminga.

Carter and ellis are the archtypes that help you win games in the playoffs. They can be stars in their role. We have have our stars, we need better role players. Kuminga believes he's a centerpiece. But if the goal is to win another chip, guys like Ellis will be more important in the playoffs (unless steph and Jimmy get hurt).

Oh how many playoffs games have the Kings won?

3 in that one year when they were like the #3 seed in the WC and lost in 7 in the first round to the Warriors. Carter wasn't on the Kings.

Since then, they've been losing play in games, though they beat the Warriors last season and then got killed by the Pelicans.

Ellis has only been in 3 play-in games, 2 in 2023-24 and one in 2024-25. Kings are 1-2 in those games and he has averaged about 17 minutes in those 3 games, +3.5 in 2023-24 and -17 in 2024-25.

Not really enough data to say he matters one way or another. Sure if he gets open looks he shoots well. But Kings didn't give him many minutes either.

Also, he's 6-4, not 6-6 as someone else said. He's light 175. So he can defend 1-2, maybe some 3s. We have enough short wings.

[EvanZ]

Yeah go tweet that, an FRP if the Kings throw in Ellis in addition to Carter, who's a second-year 6-2 guard, already 23, shot 37/29/59 in his rookie year.

Ask why the Kings are wiling to give up on him already.

Not like the Kings won a lot of games last year and these two had big roles with them.

Vivak has a type: sabonis, lavine, derozan, monk, and now kuminga.

Carter and ellis are the archtypes that help you win games in the playoffs. They can be stars in their role. We have have our stars, we need better role players. Kuminga believes he's a centerpiece. But if the goal is to win another chip, guys like Ellis will be more important in the playoffs (unless steph and Jimmy get hurt).

Oh how many playoffs games have the Kings won?

3 in that one year when they were like the #3 seed in the WC and lost in 7 in the first round to the Warriors. Carter wasn't on the Kings.

Since then, they've been losing play in games, though they beat the Warriors last season and then got killed by the Pelicans.

Ellis has only been in 3 play-in games, 2 in 2023-24 and one in 2024-25. Kings are 1-2 in those games and he has averaged about 17 minutes in those 3 games, +3.5 in 2023-24 and -17 in 2024-25.

Not really enough data to say he matters one way or another. Sure if he gets open looks he shoots well. But Kings didn't give him many minutes either.

Also, he's 6-4, not 6-6 as someone else said. He's light 175. So he can defend 1-2, maybe some 3s. We have enough short wings.

Hey man I agree. In theory Keon Ellis shouldn't be good, but he is. In theory Kuminga should be good, but he isn't.

I live in the real world where I look at actual performance and not theoretical possibilities that may more may not ever be tangible. But I can tell you this, if it's between competing with Kuminga or Ellis, I'll choose the Ellis's of hte world every time.

[ChuckDurn]

Wait, you would be willing to add a FRP to JK for Carter and Ellis?

Ridiculous, saw some Youtube videos and has a fixed idea on his mind about Carter. Just like he capes for Moody all this time.

I am not high on Carter bro. I am very high on Ellis. This isn't hard. It would be a huge steal for us.

Yeah, Ellis is definitely a much better, known commodity, and I would probably do this deal. (I wouldn’t add draft capital to it.) He’s nowhere close to the 6’6” that another poster noted, he’s probably 6’3” at best, but he’s a demon defensively, a great 3-and-D combo guard with athleticism.

Carter did show some flashes, but I don’t know what he would be.

Between Carter and Ellis, they only combine to make $7.2M, so if there were any reality to this, I could see Sacramento actually having to add more to the deal from a financial standpoint, because I suspect they wouldn’t be able to just add Kuminga at a salary he would want (probably north of $20M) without sending more salary out.

But ignoring that, Ellis and Carter wouldn’t be a bad return. It makes us really heavy on 6’3”-ish guards (Curry, Ellis, Carter, Podz, Hield, Richard), and I could see another deal being made to get back a (combo?) forward, because our depth there definitely wouldn’t be great.

[DonaldSanders]

Oh how many playoffs games have the Kings won?

3 in that one year when they were like the #3 seed in the WC and lost in 7 in the first round to the Warriors. Carter wasn't on the Kings.

Since then, they've been losing play in games, though they beat the Warriors last season and then got killed by the Pelicans.

Ellis has only been in 3 play-in games, 2 in 2023-24 and one in 2024-25. Kings are 1-2 in those games and he has averaged about 17 minutes in those 3 games, +3.5 in 2023-24 and -17 in 2024-25.

Not really enough data to say he matters one way or another. Sure if he gets open looks he shoots well. But Kings didn't give him many minutes either.

Also, he's 6-4, not 6-6 as someone else said. He's light 175. So he can defend 1-2, maybe some 3s. We have enough short wings.

I mean did you rip ATL getting Dyson Daniels because the Pelicans were bad? ATL got him as a steal. Are you against Herb Jones and Trey Murphy too?

My bad on the height, basketball reference says 6'6 (I was surprised but assumed it wouldn't be wrong). I see 6'4 everywhere else. You have to consider we may lose Kuminga for nothing, a 43% from 3 SG who plays defense is the type of player we badly need. Jimmy and Steph created so many open 3s that role players just whiffed.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/elliske01.html

[wco81]

Daniels hadn't done much for the Pelicans but he was a lottery pick so he had a high ceiling.

Herb Jones really outperformed his draft position and he's at least 6-7.

Ellis at 6-4 175 seems mostly for 1-2, doesn't have the ability to guard 1-3, maybe some 4s like Daniels and Jones.

Murphy has great length and offensive stats but I recall reading that his defense isn't great. OK since he's so long. Of course the Warriors should have drafted him over Moody.

Hey, it would be great if Ellis had impact like the first half season GP2 was with the Warriors.

But send out a FRP in addition to Kuminga for Carter and Ellis? GTFOH.

[superunknown]

Ridiculous, saw some Youtube videos and has a fixed idea on his mind about Carter. Just like he capes for Moody all this time.

I am not high on Carter bro. I am very high on Ellis. This isn't hard. It would be a huge steal for us.

Yeah, Ellis is definitely a much better, known commodity, and I would probably do this deal. (I wouldn’t add draft capital to it.) He’s nowhere close to the 6’6” that another poster noted, he’s probably 6’3” at best, but he’s a demon defensively, a great 3-and-D combo guard with athleticism.

Carter did show some flashes, but I don’t know what he would be.

Between Carter and Ellis, they only combine to make $7.2M, so if there were any reality to this, I could see Sacramento actually having to add more to the deal from a financial standpoint, because I suspect they wouldn’t be able to just add Kuminga at a salary he would want (probably north of $20M) without sending more salary out.

But ignoring that, Ellis and Carter wouldn’t be a bad return. It makes us really heavy on 6’3”-ish guards (Curry, Ellis, Carter, Podz, Hield, Richard), and I could see another deal being made to get back a (combo?) forward, because our depth there definitely wouldn’t be great.

the depth chart would be idiotic even for the kerr's midget warriors. steph, podz, carter, ellis, hield, moody, richard, spencer, the heck would be that, the bay area version of snow white and the seven dwarfs?!
if dubs get ellis and carter for kuminga, then the next move must be something like podz + likely 1 pick and 1 pick swap to utah for kessler. and/or moody to NO for jones.

[wco81]

Vivak has a type: sabonis, lavine, derozan, monk, and now kuminga.

Carter and ellis are the archtypes that help you win games in the playoffs. They can be stars in their role. We have have our stars, we need better role players. Kuminga believes he's a centerpiece. But if the goal is to win another chip, guys like Ellis will be more important in the playoffs (unless steph and Jimmy get hurt).

Oh how many playoffs games have the Kings won?

3 in that one year when they were like the #3 seed in the WC and lost in 7 in the first round to the Warriors. Carter wasn't on the Kings.

Since then, they've been losing play in games, though they beat the Warriors last season and then got killed by the Pelicans.

Ellis has only been in 3 play-in games, 2 in 2023-24 and one in 2024-25. Kings are 1-2 in those games and he has averaged about 17 minutes in those 3 games, +3.5 in 2023-24 and -17 in 2024-25.

Not really enough data to say he matters one way or another. Sure if he gets open looks he shoots well. But Kings didn't give him many minutes either.

Also, he's 6-4, not 6-6 as someone else said. He's light 175. So he can defend 1-2, maybe some 3s. We have enough short wings.

Hey man I agree. In theory Keon Ellis shouldn't be good, but he is. In theory Kuminga should be good, but he isn't.

I live in the real world where I look at actual performance and not theoretical possibilities that may more may not ever be tangible. But I can tell you this, if it's between competing with Kuminga or Ellis, I'll choose the Ellis's of hte world every time.

Oh the Kings have been winning so many games since Ellis has been on the team?

He only played 16 games the year they finished #3 in the WC. They were 3-4 in the playoffs that season and 1-2 in play in games since.

He isn't worth Kuminga and a FRP

[EvanZ]

But send out a FRP in addition to Kuminga for Carter and Ellis? GTFOH.

Kuminga is a sunk cost. You have to get over it. I would trade a FRP to get Ellis straight up if Sacramento was willing to do that deal. It's a way to make us instantly a lot better. Keon Ellis has been good from the moment I saw him in SL at Chase center before his rookie season. He's just a dude who knows how to play and he's 26 and entering his prime. He's exactly the kind of player that this team needs and is always looking for. He's a winner.

[vvoland]

Getting back ellis while freeing up the NTMLE would, in theory, be better than just keeping JK. Considering how all FAs are now gone, I don't see who we get with the MLE. Our biggest issue, post jimmy, was scoring, particularly when teams loaded up on Steph. All the lineup data shows that JK is highly additive to Steph/Dray, especially on offense. We can get 90% of Keon Ellis from Moody while keeping JK at a salary slot that can be used to move for a star at the deadline. This isn't just selling low on JK, it's poor asset management.

If we really want Keon, give them moody and a protected 1st.

[vvoland]

But send out a FRP in addition to Kuminga for Carter and Ellis? GTFOH.

Kuminga is a sunk cost. You have to get over it. I would trade a FRP to get Ellis straight up if Sacramento was willing to do that deal. It's a way to make us instantly a lot better. Keon Ellis has been good from the moment I saw him in SL at Chase center before his rookie season. He's just a dude who knows how to play and he's 26 and entering his prime. He's exactly the kind of player that this team needs and is always looking for. He's a winner.

I might be wrong but I think you are one of the posters that super high on Moody. Are they really that different? Sure keon is a better defender and shooter but Moody is bigger, rebounds well, and has a specific guard type he's very good against (the brunson type) on defense. He's also locked into a good contract while Ellis is expiring and will be looking at a pay day next summer.

How much better is keon than Moody?

[Crazy-Canuck]

Oh how many playoffs games have the Kings won?

3 in that one year when they were like the #3 seed in the WC and lost in 7 in the first round to the Warriors. Carter wasn't on the Kings.

Since then, they've been losing play in games, though they beat the Warriors last season and then got killed by the Pelicans.

Ellis has only been in 3 play-in games, 2 in 2023-24 and one in 2024-25. Kings are 1-2 in those games and he has averaged about 17 minutes in those 3 games, +3.5 in 2023-24 and -17 in 2024-25.

Not really enough data to say he matters one way or another. Sure if he gets open looks he shoots well. But Kings didn't give him many minutes either.

Also, he's 6-4, not 6-6 as someone else said. He's light 175. So he can defend 1-2, maybe some 3s. We have enough short wings.

Hey man I agree. In theory Keon Ellis shouldn't be good, but he is. In theory Kuminga should be good, but he isn't.

I live in the real world where I look at actual performance and not theoretical possibilities that may more may not ever be tangible. But I can tell you this, if it's between competing with Kuminga or Ellis, I'll choose the Ellis's of hte world every time.

Oh the Kings have been winning so many games since Ellis has been on the team?

He only played 16 games the year they finished #3 in the WC. They were 3-4 in the playoffs that season and 1-2 in play in games since.

He isn't worth Kuminga and a FRP

Ellis is a role player with the potential be an elite one. If you expected him to be the catalyst to carry a team in the play offs, that's on you.

He fits what's needed in the playoffs when you have your stars in place. Guys like sabonis, lavine, derozen are 82 game players that fold in playoffs. Boxscore darlings that are uncoducive to winning games in the playoffs as "your stars". Their failures aren't on Ellis.