Rumor - kings, Pistons, warriors

[parsnips33]

Would hate this so much which is why I'm sure it will happen

[bpcox05]

Saric played for the Warriors before, and he was terrible. Carter has also looked terrible so far. The Warriors don’t have to trade Kuminga if they can only get back negative value, they can just cut him.

I don’t think you actually watched Carter much last year. You likely just looked at his shooting %s and came to that conclusion.

And look, he definitely needs to improve his shooting. No doubt, but as a guard that was playing mostly off-ball, he posted (per 36)…

4.0 FTA
6.9 REB
3.7 AST
2.3 AST:TO ratio
1.9 STL
0.4 BLK
Good defensive ratings for the vast majority of advanced impact stats

…and he did that as a rookie who missed training camp, summer league, and ~60% of the season while he rehabbed a torn labrum.

So considering all of that, what has Carter shown thus far? He’s shown that he can be an elite defender, elite rebounder, good passer/decision maker, and someone that can get to the foul line. If he can improve his shooting (which he shot well in college and the g league), you have a very valuable player.


There's a reason he still went 13th while having a shoulder that needed to be surgically fixed. He would have probably gone top 10 last year had it not been for the injury. He's a very solid prospect, and I'd personally hate to see the Kings trade him away. You find his archetype on a lot of the top tier teams in the league.

[Nate the Great]

Saric played for the Warriors before, and he was terrible. Carter has also looked terrible so far. The Warriors don’t have to trade Kuminga if they can only get back negative value, they can just cut him.

Carter is coming off a rookie year where he had no training camp, no summer league, and missed most of the year to injury. Then he came back and never had a consistent role or playing time. He has potential to be an elite guard defender, way too early to say he’s negative value.

I didn’t say Carter is negative value, I said the deal is negative value. But the Warriors are not in a position to train rookies right now. If he can contribute in two or three years, that has less value to us than to other teams. The Warriors need guys who will play now and play well. That doesn’t appear to be Carter, and it’s definitely not Saric.

[NW]

Change Saric to Keon Ellis and I think it’s a deal. Otherwise, don’t see why GS does it

[Texas Chuck]

This idea that a free agent who hasn't played particularly well, whom the coached benched in the playoffs, and whom they seem to have no interest in signing should return Ellis and Carter feels pretty optimistic to me. Again, awesome if you can get more value than your player has in a deal, but it doesn't seem particularly realistic.

[parsnips33]

This idea that a free agent who hasn't played particularly well, whom the coached benched in the playoffs, and whom they seem to have no interest in signing should return Ellis and Carter feels pretty optimistic to me. Again, awesome if you can get more value than your player has in a deal, but it doesn't seem particularly realistic.

Yeah I think if Warriors are willing to add draft pick value to JK (which I'm hoping they are) they set their sights higher than Keon Ellis.

Without additional value, I don't see Kuminga returning much

[jayjaysee]

I don’t really understand Monk in Det. And dont understand another guard being traded and Dallas sitting with all these forwards..

Carter was a really good prospect before his injury and I think is worth giving a shot. Especially as the return for just a sign and trade.

[NW]

This idea that a free agent who hasn't played particularly well, whom the coached benched in the playoffs, and whom they seem to have no interest in signing should return Ellis and Carter feels pretty optimistic to me. Again, awesome if you can get more value than your player has in a deal, but it doesn't seem particularly realistic.

We’ll see I guess. Could argue Ellis was in similar situation from what Kings games I saw getting jerked around the rotation and Carter’s rookie year wasn’t lighting the world on fire. Seems it would be a deal based around a level of hopium on both sides. Kuminga reaching the all star level he believes he’s capable of on his side (which Vivek would love given his history with GS) and Ellis and Davis hitting theirs

[LightTheBeam]

I don’t get it from Detroit’s end….

How are we supposed to play Cade, Monk, Ivey, LeVert, Ausar, Holland and Robinson? Cade plays 36 minutes. That leaves 108 minutes at guard and smaller wing for the other 6 dudes. You add up what they’re used to playing and you get like 160. And no, none of those guys can play legit PF. Ausar can get by, but that’s an absolute waste of his on-ball defense.

Further, Monk has two additional years at 20m per. Yuck, man.

Now if we follow it up with trading one of those guys for a good big, I’m on board.

Well.. Cade and Auser aren't going anywhere. Robinson, Levert, Monk all recent additions. Maybe an Ivey replacement before they have to make a decision paying him?>

I have no problem trading Ivey, but trading him right now doesn’t make sense with his value depressed due to injury. If some other GM loves him and pays full price, sure.

Which leaves Holland. And if we trade Ron before he gets a real chance I’m going to be REALLY FLIPPIN MAD. He’s gonna be really, really good in a couple years, and he’s Detroit Basketball to his core.

Ideally, we immediately reroute Monk. We don’t need him. If we aren’t trading him, I’d pass on the S&T for Schroder entirely and stay out of this.

I think the concept is spend the money now while you can. Which opens up way more trade possibilities in the future. Yes the current roster doesn't need Monk.. But you would have between now and December 15th to access who fits and who doesn't. Monk is a damn good player when hes on a good team. He was our 2nd most important player when we battled gs in the playoffs. I for one, would love my team to add a guy rather than just save $.

In 2.5 months you can look to package Tobias/Ivey/picks for a significant upgrade (Siakam? Lauri?) and then you would have the depth you need to do that without it hurting you.

Cade - Robinson - Auser - Legit PF - Duren
Monk - LeVert - Holland - Stewart

That would be my goal if I was building the team.

[LightTheBeam]

I don’t really understand Monk in Det. And dont understand another guard being traded and Dallas sitting with all these forwards..

Carter was a really good prospect before his injury and I think is worth giving a shot. Especially as the return for just a sign and trade.

Honestly I don't get why Dallas and Sac haven't done something yet. I like Kuminga, but I've also always been a PJ homer.

Give me PJ/Powell for Monk and call it a day from Sac's end. We keep our young guard, we add the forward we need.

Only reason I can think why Sac maybe hasn't asked for PJ, is they are scared he will walk.

[codydaze]

I'd hate to lose Devin Carter. He's such a valuable archetype that is being utilized on all of these top tier playoff teams.

Defensively, he's versatile, strong, long, and very athletic. He's very switchable and he's an elite rebounder for his position. Plus, he's already a positive on the defensive end in some of the top advanced impact stats as a ROOKIE (EPM, VPM, DARKO, LEBRON, eRAPTOR). He has the tools to be one of the best defenders in this league.

Offensively, he needs to improve his shooting, but he did shoot 38% from 3 his last year in college and 39% in the g league (and he's taking a high amount of 3PAs per 36 min too). He has the elite athleticism to get by his man and attack closeouts. He's an unselfish, smart/connective passer, and his PnR game in college was excellent.

He's one of those guys that can do a bit of everything on offense while being elite defensively and elite on the boards. That's a very valuable player. He needs to be more efficient scoring/shooting the ball, certainly. But let's not forget he was a rookie last year that missed 1) training camp and 2) the majority of the season as he was rehabbing a torn labrum. I'm very excited to see how he looks this upcoming season.

Plus, considering he has elite athleticism (he tore up the combine), has great length for his position, and was very effective in the PnR in college, he has a slim chance of developing into a star as well. I wouldn't bet my house on it, but it's possible considering the tools he has and what he flashed in college. I think it's far more likely he tops out as an elite role player though.

I was very high on Carter as a prospect and agree with everything you’ve said. Who do you think has a higher upside between Keon and Devin?

I see Keon as a prime KCP/Danny Green type of player who I think are extremely valuable players in their role and can contribute to winning at a high level. I'd out Carter's upside as someone like Derrick White with a but more dynamic playmaking ability so I'd see his upside as a bit higher than Keon's even though Keon is probably my favorite player on the team right now.

I'm in on Kuminga for the Kings in theory but I really wouldn't want to include Carter to get him.

[jayjaysee]

I don’t really understand Monk in Det. And dont understand another guard being traded and Dallas sitting with all these forwards..

Carter was a really good prospect before his injury and I think is worth giving a shot. Especially as the return for just a sign and trade.

Honestly I don't get why Dallas and Sac haven't done something yet. I like Kuminga, but I've also always been a PJ homer.

Give me PJ/Powell for Monk and call it a day from Sac's end. We keep our young guard, we add the forward we need.

Only reason I can think why Sac maybe hasn't asked for PJ, is they are scared he will walk.

Yeah the roster fit there just makes a lot of sense for both teams.

I do not understand Dallas wanted to go in so top heavy in general with the guard play being near bottom of league until Kyrie gets back..

[LightTheBeam]

I'd hate to lose Devin Carter. He's such a valuable archetype that is being utilized on all of these top tier playoff teams.

Defensively, he's versatile, strong, long, and very athletic. He's very switchable and he's an elite rebounder for his position. Plus, he's already a positive on the defensive end in some of the top advanced impact stats as a ROOKIE (EPM, VPM, DARKO, LEBRON, eRAPTOR). He has the tools to be one of the best defenders in this league.

Offensively, he needs to improve his shooting, but he did shoot 38% from 3 his last year in college and 39% in the g league (and he's taking a high amount of 3PAs per 36 min too). He has the elite athleticism to get by his man and attack closeouts. He's an unselfish, smart/connective passer, and his PnR game in college was excellent.

He's one of those guys that can do a bit of everything on offense while being elite defensively and elite on the boards. That's a very valuable player. He needs to be more efficient scoring/shooting the ball, certainly. But let's not forget he was a rookie last year that missed 1) training camp and 2) the majority of the season as he was rehabbing a torn labrum. I'm very excited to see how he looks this upcoming season.

Plus, considering he has elite athleticism (he tore up the combine), has great length for his position, and was very effective in the PnR in college, he has a slim chance of developing into a star as well. I wouldn't bet my house on it, but it's possible considering the tools he has and what he flashed in college. I think it's far more likely he tops out as an elite role player though.

I was very high on Carter as a prospect and agree with everything you’ve said. Who do you think has a higher upside between Keon and Devin?

I see Keon as a prime KCP/Danny Green type of player who I think are extremely valuable players in their role and can contribute to winning at a high level. I'd out Carter's upside as someone like Derrick White with a but more dynamic playmaking ability so I'd see his upside as a bit higher than Keon's even though Keon is probably my favorite player on the team right now.

I'm in on Kuminga for the Kings in theory but I really wouldn't want to include Carter to get him.

Few things.

How likely is it Keon hits that ceiling? I'd say fairly likely he reaches that level.
How likely is it Carter does? Right now we have no evidence he can be close to White.

Honestly after watching Carter last year (yes I know it was an awful year with injuries, coaching changes, etc..) he feels more like GPII to me. Undersized but can guard up positions. Can't even see him being a consistent shooter but maybe slightly better than GP? Wasn't super impressed by his handles at all.

I think thats still a really important piece, and I'd love to keep him. But i get moving him here to get Kuminga.

[LightTheBeam]

I don’t really understand Monk in Det. And dont understand another guard being traded and Dallas sitting with all these forwards..

Carter was a really good prospect before his injury and I think is worth giving a shot. Especially as the return for just a sign and trade.

Honestly I don't get why Dallas and Sac haven't done something yet. I like Kuminga, but I've also always been a PJ homer.

Give me PJ/Powell for Monk and call it a day from Sac's end. We keep our young guard, we add the forward we need.

Only reason I can think why Sac maybe hasn't asked for PJ, is they are scared he will walk.

Yeah the roster fit there just makes a lot of sense for both teams.

I do not understand Dallas wanted to go in so top heavy in general with the guard play being near bottom of league until Kyrie gets back..

From Dallas POV, I think they know AD will miss time, what better replacement than PJ? PJ is also the best option for when they want to go "small" (LOL) in the playoffs. This is a team with finals aspirations, and I think there's a far clearer role for PJ than Monk.

AD - PJ - Flagg - Klay/Naji/Christie - Kyrie is probably their closing lineup

[SNPA]

Brett Siegel
@BrettSiegelNBA
·
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The Kings have made it very obvious that they want Jonathan Kuminga.

However, the Warriors, I’m told, have zero interest in seeing their young forward go to their rival.

There doesn’t appear to be a plausible path, at this time, for a S&T resulting in Kuminga to Sacramento.

………

If this reporter is right it’s hilarious. GS has four championships and will be better than Sac next year again…but they are this level of petty or scared of trading to their “rival.” Lol If this isn’t posturing it’s embarrassing for GS.

[Godaddycurse]

If you're kuminga, do you sign a 7.9M qualifying offer or a 14M 1 year MLE offer from Sacramento Kings to enter FA next year if no long term deal can be agreed to?

[NW]

Brett Siegel
@BrettSiegelNBA
·
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The Kings have made it very obvious that they want Jonathan Kuminga.

However, the Warriors, I’m told, have zero interest in seeing their young forward go to their rival.

There doesn’t appear to be a plausible path, at this time, for a S&T resulting in Kuminga to Sacramento.

………

If this reporter is right it’s hilarious. GS has four championships and will be better than Sac next year again…but they are this level of petty or scared of trading to their “rival.” Lol If this isn’t posturing it’s embarrassing for GS.

Seriously doubt there’s any truth to this. No doubt they’d trade Kuminga to Sac if the offer is right. Saric and Carter isn’t that offer though

[LightTheBeam]

Brett Siegel
@BrettSiegelNBA
·
Follow
The Kings have made it very obvious that they want Jonathan Kuminga.

However, the Warriors, I’m told, have zero interest in seeing their young forward go to their rival.

There doesn’t appear to be a plausible path, at this time, for a S&T resulting in Kuminga to Sacramento.

………

If this reporter is right it’s hilarious. GS has four championships and will be better than Sac next year again…but they are this level of petty or scared of trading to their “rival.” Lol If this isn’t posturing it’s embarrassing for GS.

Posturing imo. How the hell are we rival, we are trash and they've dominated for 10 years lol.

If I'm the Kings I just say best and final offer.

I don't think GS wants Kuminga back at all. I don't think Kuminga wants to come back.

Maybe Heat can work Kuminga into the Det S&T with Robinson to Det, JJJ/Simone to GS, and Kuminga to Miami. If so, so be it. But it's really hard to see any other scenario than Sac/Miami/Kuminga playing on the QO

[LightTheBeam]

If you're kuminga, do you sign a 7.9M qualifying offer or a 14M 1 year MLE offer from Sacramento Kings to enter FA next year if no long term deal can be agreed to?

I thought MLE is 3 year minimum?

Answer here is clearly Sac. We would feature him year 1. My guess is GS wouldn't play him much on that QO.

[jayjaysee]

Honestly I don't get why Dallas and Sac haven't done something yet. I like Kuminga, but I've also always been a PJ homer.

Give me PJ/Powell for Monk and call it a day from Sac's end. We keep our young guard, we add the forward we need.

Only reason I can think why Sac maybe hasn't asked for PJ, is they are scared he will walk.

Yeah the roster fit there just makes a lot of sense for both teams.

I do not understand Dallas wanted to go in so top heavy in general with the guard play being near bottom of league until Kyrie gets back..

From Dallas POV, I think they know AD will miss time, what better replacement than PJ? PJ is also the best option for when they want to go "small" (LOL) in the playoffs. This is a team with finals aspirations, and I think there's a far clearer role for PJ than Monk.

AD - PJ - Flagg - Klay/Naji/Christie - Kyrie is probably their closing lineup

I agree completely with all this except the finals aspirations.. I think KD was the only player around that could make this team (without trading Flagg) a true contender with the assets Dallas has.. Now if LBJ does actually ask out, Dallas’ limited assets could be enough and maybe playing with AD/Kyrie would be good enough for LBJ.

But in general - if AD is planning to be a 15-20mpg center.. your third string center doesn’t have to be Gafford or Lively. You can downgrade to Richards or Jalen or Jonas or etc and upgrade where you need it… That Klay/Naji/Christie spot..