Jazz reporter Tony Jones: Trade market not there for John Collins

[GatherStepGuru]

I think WAS should consider him as a competent playable big next to Sarr, so he’s not getting destroyed all season.

Collins for Kispert, Holmes and a future 2nd

Kispert needs a third team, we should not want to pay or play him. He is fine, just a bad fit.

I can see definitely see that.

[the_process]

Collins would help the Sixers, but no way to match money without one of PG, Embiid, or Maxey.

[babyjax13]

I kind of like David Locke's idea of getting some compensation for taking Pat Williams.

Pat Williams, Jevon Carter (released), 2026 POR 1st (1-14 protected thru 2028, otherwise 2028 2nd), 2029 CHI 2nd for Collins

I'm not sure that is enough to take on Pat, but it is an idea.

Kessler/Filipowski/Nurkic
Lauri/Hendricks/P. Williams
Bailey/C. Williams/P. Williams
Sensabaugh/George/Svi
Collier/Clayton/George

Something like that.

[SkyHook]

I kind of like David Locke's idea of getting some compensation for taking Pat Williams.

Pat Williams, Jevon Carter (released), 2026 POR 1st (1-14 protected thru 2028, otherwise 2028 2nd), 2029 CHI 2nd for Collins

I'm not sure that is enough to take on Pat, but it is an idea.

Kessler/Filipowski/Nurkic
Lauri/Hendricks/P. Williams
Bailey/C. Williams/P. Williams
Sensabaugh/George/Svi
Collier/Clayton/George

Something like that.

I think it would have to be significantly more compensation to take on the PW contract for so long.

[hugepatsfan]

The hard cap at the 1st apron if you take back more salary than you send out makes deals like this tough. Collins would be a textbook example of a team trading worse player making like $20M with a 2nd for him. But this new CBA means most teams won't want to do that anymore because it hard caps them (or they just can't because already capped or too close to the boogeyman that is the 2nd apron). Dries up the market and is going to make it really hard for the bad teams to accumulate assets for 2nd and 3rd contract players they end up with from past deals. The take back the contract, rehab his value, and flip him idea that a lot of teams have used is probably going to die out because the hard cap rules and limitations of trading for high salary players really isn't worth it anymore unless it's top of the roster.

[mg]

The hard cap at the 1st apron if you take back more salary than you send out makes deals like this tough. Collins would be a textbook example of a team trading worse player making like $20M with a 2nd for him. But this new CBA means most teams won't want to do that anymore because it hard caps them (or they just can't because already capped or too close to the boogeyman that is the 2nd apron). Dries up the market and is going to make it really hard for the bad teams to accumulate assets for 2nd and 3rd contract players they end up with from past deals. The take back the contract, rehab his value, and flip him idea that a lot of teams have used is probably going to die out because the hard cap rules and limitations of trading for high salary players really isn't worth it anymore unless it's top of the roster.

I believe this is what happened with Collins. The Jazz took him as a bad contract wanting to rehab value and flip him for assets. Unfortunately the new CBA makes this tactic very difficult. The Jazz got stuck holding the bag in this situation. Ainge didn't have the foresight two years ago when he acquired the contract to see how the new CBA would negatively effect this type of strategy. This new CBA was actually voted in by the NBA board of Governors and the Players back in April, 2023 so Ainge should've known the ramifications of taking on such a contract when he made the trade a few months later.

[BK_2020]

The hard cap at the 1st apron if you take back more salary than you send out makes deals like this tough. Collins would be a textbook example of a team trading worse player making like $20M with a 2nd for him. But this new CBA means most teams won't want to do that anymore because it hard caps them (or they just can't because already capped or too close to the boogeyman that is the 2nd apron). Dries up the market and is going to make it really hard for the bad teams to accumulate assets for 2nd and 3rd contract players they end up with from past deals. The take back the contract, rehab his value, and flip him idea that a lot of teams have used is probably going to die out because the hard cap rules and limitations of trading for high salary players really isn't worth it anymore unless it's top of the roster.

I believe this is what happened with Collins. The Jazz took him as a bad contract wanting to rehab value and flip him for assets. Unfortunately the new CBA makes this tactic very difficult. The Jazz got stuck holding the bag in this situation. Ainge didn't have the foresight two years ago when he acquired the contract to see how the new CBA would negatively effect this type of strategy. This new CBA was actually voted in by the NBA board of Governors and the Players back in April, 2023 so Ainge should've known the ramifications of taking on such a contract when he made the trade a few months later.

The Hawks only got a second in 2023 but sure, it's the new CBA not the fact that John Collins is not worth his contract.

[BK_2020]

The hard cap at the 1st apron if you take back more salary than you send out makes deals like this tough. Collins would be a textbook example of a team trading worse player making like $20M with a 2nd for him. But this new CBA means most teams won't want to do that anymore because it hard caps them (or they just can't because already capped or too close to the boogeyman that is the 2nd apron). Dries up the market and is going to make it really hard for the bad teams to accumulate assets for 2nd and 3rd contract players they end up with from past deals. The take back the contract, rehab his value, and flip him idea that a lot of teams have used is probably going to die out because the hard cap rules and limitations of trading for high salary players really isn't worth it anymore unless it's top of the roster.

I don't think rehabbing and flipping a bad contract was ever a realistic plan, definitely not something a lot of teams did. I am struggling to come up with an example.

[hugepatsfan]

The hard cap at the 1st apron if you take back more salary than you send out makes deals like this tough. Collins would be a textbook example of a team trading worse player making like $20M with a 2nd for him. But this new CBA means most teams won't want to do that anymore because it hard caps them (or they just can't because already capped or too close to the boogeyman that is the 2nd apron). Dries up the market and is going to make it really hard for the bad teams to accumulate assets for 2nd and 3rd contract players they end up with from past deals. The take back the contract, rehab his value, and flip him idea that a lot of teams have used is probably going to die out because the hard cap rules and limitations of trading for high salary players really isn't worth it anymore unless it's top of the roster.

I believe this is what happened with Collins. The Jazz took him as a bad contract wanting to rehab value and flip him for assets. Unfortunately the new CBA makes this tactic very difficult. The Jazz got stuck holding the bag in this situation. Ainge didn't have the foresight two years ago when he acquired the contract to see how the new CBA would negatively effect this type of strategy. This new CBA was actually voted in by the NBA board of Governors and the Players back in April, 2023 so Ainge should've known the ramifications of taking on such a contract when he made the trade a few months later.

The Hawks only got a second in 2023 but sure, it's the new CBA not the fact that John Collins is not worth his contract.

Players "not worth their contract" have always been traded, just for other guys "not worth their contract". But now the new CBA has such limitations on how can trade who anymore and the 2nd apron acting as a pseudo salary cap. In the past there would always be some team with like $20M expendable salary on a player worse than Collins to trade and take back the small extra for a better player. There's only a small handful of teams right now that are in a position where they want to or where they can legally do that type of trade now because of how that would hard cap them at 1st apron.

[BK_2020]

I believe this is what happened with Collins. The Jazz took him as a bad contract wanting to rehab value and flip him for assets. Unfortunately the new CBA makes this tactic very difficult. The Jazz got stuck holding the bag in this situation. Ainge didn't have the foresight two years ago when he acquired the contract to see how the new CBA would negatively effect this type of strategy. This new CBA was actually voted in by the NBA board of Governors and the Players back in April, 2023 so Ainge should've known the ramifications of taking on such a contract when he made the trade a few months later.

The Hawks only got a second in 2023 but sure, it's the new CBA not the fact that John Collins is not worth his contract.

Players "not worth their contract" have always been traded, just for other guys "not worth their contract". But now the new CBA has such limitations on how can trade who anymore and the 2nd apron acting as a pseudo salary cap. In the past there would always be some team with like $20M expendable salary on a player worse than Collins to trade and take back the small extra for a better player. There's only a small handful of teams right now that are in a position where they want to or where they can legally do that type of trade now because of how that would hard cap them at 1st apron.

They've been traded but I don't think with the idea that there was some hidden value to be had in rehabbing. If the Jazz were willing to send some value with Collins, they would have an easier time finding a trade partner. The article suggests, though, that Ainge wants value back, presumably under the misguided belief that Collins has now rehabbed his value by putting up slightly better stats in Utah.

[longfellow44]

Throwing the idea of a three team deal out there, I know the jazz don't want to take on salary, I wonder if they would make an exception in the right deal.

Collins to the kings
Kuminga sign and trade to the jazz
Monk and saric to the warriors

[SkyHook]

The Hawks only got a second in 2023 but sure, it's the new CBA not the fact that John Collins is not worth his contract.

Players "not worth their contract" have always been traded, just for other guys "not worth their contract". But now the new CBA has such limitations on how can trade who anymore and the 2nd apron acting as a pseudo salary cap. In the past there would always be some team with like $20M expendable salary on a player worse than Collins to trade and take back the small extra for a better player. There's only a small handful of teams right now that are in a position where they want to or where they can legally do that type of trade now because of how that would hard cap them at 1st apron.

They've been traded but I don't think with the idea that there was some hidden value to be had in rehabbing. If the Jazz were willing to send some value with Collins, they would have an easier time finding a trade partner. The article suggests, though, that Ainge wants value back, presumably under the misguided belief that Collins has now rehabbed his value by putting up slightly better stats in Utah.

What's the motivation for the Jazz to move him then? He helps them win too much? That can be mitigated without burning additional assets? That he's in the way of younger players? The only one I'm worried about at his position is Hendricks and, while he's expected to be back for training camp, it's going to be a long while before he's ready for heavy minutes and guessing at least another year before he fully trusts the leg again.

There's no rush. Nice to have the situation resolved before the start of the season, but it's not the end of the world otherwise. Better to keep Collins and his expiring contract than to pay to move him or to take back garbage contracts for marginal draft assets.

[Vae Victus]

Lakers currently under 1st apron even after signing Ayton and BAE. Is Collins for Kleber/Vincent feasible under current CBA? Utah saves a few mil and get 2 smaller expirings to play with. Lakers get the better albeit overpaid player for a one year push for glory with ancient LBJ.
Is Ainge willing to wave the white flag on Collins and get it over with?

[SkyHook]

Throwing the idea of a three team deal out there, I know the jazz don't want to take on salary, I wonder if they would make an exception in the right deal.

Collins to the kings
Kuminga sign and trade to the jazz
Monk and saric to the warriors

I was opposed to getting Kuminga when his name was floated for Lauri last summer and I have no regrets after watching him this past season. Collins was simply better by virtually any advanced metric. I'd rather let his contract expire—I'd rather resign him to a new deal at the market price he'd demand—than to take on Kuminga, especially at the salary he wants.

[SkyHook]

Lakers currently under 1st apron even after signing Ayton and BAE. Is Collins for Kleber/Vincent feasible under current CBA? Utah saves a few mil and get 2 smaller expirings to play with. Lakers get the better albeit overpaid player for a one year push for glory with ancient LBJ.
Is Ainge willing to wave the white flag on Collins and get it over with?

That might get it done, though I'd expect the Jazz FO to at least ask for a draft asset in return. Collins for Rui straight across works.

[pad300]

I'm still a John Collins fan and think he could definitely have an Obi Toppin type impact for a playoff team. Unfortunately Collins opted into nearly $27 mil while Obi is tied into a reasonable contract making $14 mil next season.

Agreed! Which is why he should’ve took a buyout too before all the free agent money goes. How many teams still have their non tax payer MLE?

Nah, Collins and his agent know that there will be a lot more cap-space available next summer; he can probably get something more than the MLE next year...

[babyjax13]

Throwing the idea of a three team deal out there, I know the jazz don't want to take on salary, I wonder if they would make an exception in the right deal.

Collins to the kings
Kuminga sign and trade to the jazz
Monk and saric to the warriors

I wouldn't take Kuminga for free.

[They_Them_Hatin]

I'm still a John Collins fan and think he could definitely have an Obi Toppin type impact for a playoff team. Unfortunately Collins opted into nearly $27 mil while Obi is tied into a reasonable contract making $14 mil next season.

Agreed! Which is why he should’ve took a buyout too before all the free agent money goes. How many teams still have their non tax payer MLE?

Nah, Collins and his agent know that there will be a lot more cap-space available next summer; he can probably get something more than the MLE next year...

He’s an expiring contract and Utah is clearly tanking and will not play him. It’s best to get out and contribute on a winning a team then play DNP carousel again. Utah held onto him too long and not getting anything of value for him. So yes his agent should’ve came to them and offered a buyout so he can get a MLE this year and the buyout. Especially after Denver made that trade that got them their MLE. Jokic would make him a ton of money then rotting on Utah bench.

[SkyHook]

Same reporter...

Read on Twitter

[jayjaysee]

In the other rumor..

I like Collins more for Det than Monk. And then flip Monk.

And I like Collins more for Sac than Kuminga.

Feels like if Utah’s demands are low they should be able to get involved in that deal and make one of the other teams happy..