Ball for Sengun+ ?

[KembaWalker]

would rather just trade Ball for picks than a 54% TS big. you take Sengun off a very well built and coached team and put him on a trashfire like the Hornets and hes just Vucevic

Vucevic isn't in the same stratosphere as Şengün as a playmaker. If anything Udoka is underutilizing his ability by not making him more of a hub on offense. He was already showing it on a trash team coached by Silas.

Vucevic has been a very good passer for a center in his career and even today still sporting a better ast/to ratio to Sengun. Neither one of them is Jokic so we don't need to pretend otherwise lol

[Djh7475]

I’m lower on Sengun than most as a highly paid big that doesn’t space the floor or protect the rim, but his team defense and passing offset some of that. When he went from dominating the Celtics this season to having Kornet completely shut him down, it made me think that he’s relatively easy to game plan for (put a strong/huge individual on him and take away his post game).

Still, he’s proven he can be arguably the best player on a really competitive western conference team. On the other hand, Lamelo is older, makes more, is always injured, and has never done anything other than put up flashy (but empty) numbers on bottom feeding teams.

[Bloodbather]

would rather just trade Ball for picks than a 54% TS big. you take Sengun off a very well built and coached team and put him on a trashfire like the Hornets and hes just Vucevic

Vucevic isn't in the same stratosphere as Şengün as a playmaker. If anything Udoka is underutilizing his ability by not making him more of a hub on offense. He was already showing it on a trash team coached by Silas.

Idk about that but the defensive gap is massive. Sengun is a decent rim guy but extremely underrated in space. Makes great rotation reads. Was quarterbacking that funky rotating zone defense against the warriors that allowed them to play double bigs and was making sure everyone was switching out in a way that let them keep Adams in the paint. People still caught on his first two seasons and his perceived archetype instead of how good he actually is on defense now.

Think Sengun's passing is a bit overrated honestly, scoring was down this year but he's been a plus TS% guy before this so probably just an aberration bc he couldn't make layups randomly this season

I agree with the point about defense. His improvement has gone under the radar a bit. Pau Gasol is my go-to comparison for him, it looks like he'll be defensively solid going forward like Pau. His hands are really active as well.

I think Şengün is a really creative passer. Udoka doesn't use him as a hub, really, I think his APG would be around 7 per game if the scheme was geared towards it. He's a better passer than Sabonis for example, but Sabonis gets a lot of assists from DHOs.

[BleedGreen1989]

I continue to be surprised how many posters still think Ball has superstar value. Super curious what we are basing this on? It's not his play. It's not his availity. It's not his leadership/intangibles. It's not his contract. It's no longer potential.

It honestly feels like he was once a high pick and he has some fun highlights, and we haven't bothered to reset to his max contract, his injuries, and that his game has done nothing to transform his team into even a mediocre one much less a winning one.

it's more that there's no reason to sell him cheap. Most of us don't have any expectation of a team offering full value, so that's why you rarely see a Charlotte fan actually making trades involving him.

Like the other Charlotte fan in this thread, I don't view Sengun like a star

Agreed.

I don’t think this proposal values Ball as a superstar at all. A straight swap of two young players who have varying degrees of promise mixed with obvious flaws.

[brackdan70]

Two interesting moves this week.

The first was the Rockets signing Capela when they already have Sengun and Adam’s at center with Smith Jr. able to play there in short bursts.

The second was the Hornets picking up 3 PG’s in Mann, Sexton, and Dinwiddie when they already have Ball.

Do they indicate a potential trade on the horizon?

Ball for Sengun+ ?

Ball would bring additional star power to the Rockets championship aspirations.

Sengun would bring much needed size to CHA.

Do you think this is possibly the motivation for these odd moves? And if so, what would the Rockets need to add?

I don’t think there is any motivation to move Sengun.
It would take at least Ball and a 1st round pick to match value.

[QMemphis]

Why would the Rockets do this? Sengun is a 5/4 and Jabari is 4/3 they both will play down a position in jumbo lineups as they did yesterday.

Hornets would have to add value but why would a rebuilding team choose to build around B Miller and Sengun That team would need a lot of defensive help.

[amcoolio]

I continue to be surprised how many posters still think Ball has superstar value. Super curious what we are basing this on? It's not his play. It's not his availity. It's not his leadership/intangibles. It's not his contract. It's no longer potential.

It honestly feels like he was once a high pick and he has some fun highlights, and we haven't bothered to reset to his max contract, his injuries, and that his game has done nothing to transform his team into even a mediocre one much less a winning one.

Hornets clearly have not tried to win the last few years. Any player put in a tanking situation will not win games. SGA was also on a few 20 win Thunder seasons because they were tanking, yet everyone forgets that. Ball is still very young, and led a bad Hornets team to 43 wins the last time they were actually trying to win. Lets hold judgement on the "he will never be a winner" talk

[Texas Chuck]

I didn't say he couldn't be a winner. But he hasn't to date. One 43 win campaign notwithstanding.

But again its clear you guys are content with him so you shouldn't care what I think.

[ReggiesKnicks]

I continue to be surprised how many posters still think Ball has superstar value. Super curious what we are basing this on? It's not his play. It's not his availity. It's not his leadership/intangibles. It's not his contract. It's no longer potential.

It honestly feels like he was once a high pick and he has some fun highlights, and we haven't bothered to reset to his max contract, his injuries, and that his game has done nothing to transform his team into even a mediocre one much less a winning one.

Hornets clearly have not tried to win the last few years. Any player put in a tanking situation will not win games. SGA was also on a few 20 win Thunder seasons because they were tanking, yet everyone forgets that. Ball is still very young, and led a bad Hornets team to 43 wins the last time they were actually trying to win. Lets hold judgement on the "he will never be a winner" talk

Ball didn't really lead the team to 43 wins. He was 3rd in +/-, the team had a handful of good/decent players and decent depth with solid veterans.

Rozier/Plumlee/Hayward were all low-tier rotation pieces but rotation pieces none the less. The team lacked high-end talent but the vets filled key roles at all 3 key points for a team. Rozier was a decent guard, Hayward a decent wing and Plumlee a decent Center.

Yeah, the talent on the team overall was lackluster, especially because there was no top-end talent. I think that's a good point in defending or arguing for Ball, he has never had an opportunity to be on a good team, and why can't he?

Ultimately Charlotte has been beyond atrocious at putting pieces around Ball, Ball has his own injury issues and warts but I think people are being unfair in writing off Ball already.

I land in a place where Ball's game isn't aesthetically appealing and I have real doubts about his skill-set scaling up on a good team. That said, I think talent figures out ways to co-exist and there exist the right puzzle pieces where Ball and other players can make for a good team.

I wish we would see Ball in a new environment which is built on winning and defense, but Charlotte doesn't seem to be doing anything to foster that environment.